Macisle Posted December 26, 2016 Author Share Posted December 26, 2016 Okay, I got to spend a bit of time with the Upgrades today. It's still too early to judge things in earnest, but first impressions are... I love the small arms smoke! Too cool. It's amazing how much that little effect adds. However, I still prefer the look of Vein's effects (fire, tracers, muzzle flash, hit decals, & smoke) -- especially fire and hit decals. I think the Upgrade uses new files/file names, as Vein's effects wouldn't load when I tried them. So, I'm just using stock effects right now (but Juju's UI and my other graphic mods seem to work fine). I really like what I'm seeing in terms of soldier spacing and general self-preservation behaviors. It's subtle, but something feels more natural about things now. I still had a couple of instances of suicidal panic that are very hard to rationalize as possibly happening in real life, though. In one case, the team could have just backed out of a building to rejoin friendlies in safety. Instead, they ran out into the open right in front of the enemy and were cut down. In the other, a mortar team that could have just run one action square to its rear to rejoin friendlies on a reverse slope in the friendly direction left cover to run closer to the enemy across a wide street covered by several enemy teams at medium/long range. They made it, but it's hard to imagine a real-life panicked team opting for that path --especially when their platoon HQ is just a few meters behind them in a totally safe place. So, in general, the Upgrade seems to have brought very nice, subtle enhancements that make the battlefield feel more natural and realistic. The panic behavior just needs to be massaged a bit to reduce the frequency of teams opting for an obviously suicidal route path when safe paths are right there for the taking. I haven't had a chance to see the Peeking Around Corners much yet, but I did notice a couple of instances where it seemed to be working. Does this impact wall entrances as well? I had a US team use the door space in a tall wall very well to knock out a tank that pulled up beside and then duke it out with the bailing crew. I noticed Bren gunners taking single shots or two-bullet bursts a medium/long range. They seem to be conserving ammo. I like it! I love the Combine Squad command! Very useful and a much-appreciated new feature. I tested the AI Area Fire command a bit. That will take some work to learn how best to apply it. Multiple tanks in a group with multiple painted targets seem to be a bit uncertain where to target. They tend to shift their turrets back and forth and only take an occasional shot. Maybe single targets with multiple Orders given to have them jump to other single targets is the way to go, rather than have multiple targets under one Order. I love having 32 Orders now, but hope for 32 Groups as well in future Upgrades. That's it for now. I like what I'm seeing and am very happy with the Upgrade so far. -Lookin' forward to exploring it more! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 On 24/12/2016 at 3:29 PM, Aragorn2002 said: Will a tank be able to cross a stream? Investigation will start tomorrow. If I stay behind my pc any longer, my wife will start her own world war. Yes, it will slow it down and there is an increased chance of blogging while crossing. That is what is supposed to happen at any rate. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glubokii Boy Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 hello... Am i missing something or is the WITHDRAW AI-order limited to 1 action Square ? I have tried to paint multiple squares to designate my withdraw location (using shift-click) but i have been unable to to that....One only ? Having a platoon of tanks trying to bunch up in a single square is not very pretty... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George MC Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 35 minutes ago, RepsolCBR said: hello... Am i missing something or is the WITHDRAW AI-order limited to 1 action Square ? I have tried to paint multiple squares to designate my withdraw location (using shift-click) but i have been unable to to that....One only ? Having a platoon of tanks trying to bunch up in a single square is not very pretty... That's the direction you want em to go - you then need to paint a normal AI plan area for the unit to organise itself in. e.e. an area large enough using painted green squares for your tank platoon to take up positions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivanov Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 How does the hull down command is supposed to work? I give this command to the tanks, they go where I tell them to go, but they don't look for any better position, than the one I designate for them with the waypoint. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 2 minutes ago, Ivanov said: How does the hull down command is supposed to work? I give this command to the tanks, they go where I tell them to go, but they don't look for any better position, than the one I designate for them with the waypoint. That may be because you are trying it on terrain that has no better position, e.g., flat. Try it with the tank coming over some kind or rise, like the crest of a hill for instance. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivanov Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 6 minutes ago, Michael Emrys said: That may be because you are trying it on terrain that has no better position, e.g., flat. Try it with the tank coming over some kind or rise, like the crest of a hill for instance. Michael So in that case the tank is supposed to stop movement when it encounters a perfect hull down spot? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastiff Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 the serial number provided to me from your licensing site is invalid. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivanov Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 14 minutes ago, Wolfseven said: the serial number provided to me from your licensing site is invalid. You need to introduce the serial number of the base game, not the update serial. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastiff Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 2 minutes ago, Ivanov said: You need to introduce the serial number of the base game, not the update serial. does not work states incorrect version then the fail picture. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivanov Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 (edited) After upgrading ( issue present both in CMRT and CMBS ), the smoke looks like fireballs. subir imagen Edited December 27, 2016 by Ivanov 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glubokii Boy Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 6 hours ago, George MC said: That's the direction you want em to go - you then need to paint a normal AI plan area for the unit to organise itself in. e.e. an area large enough using painted green squares for your tank platoon to take up positions. Thanks ! Will give it a try... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 1 hour ago, Ivanov said: After upgrading ( issue present both in CMRT and CMBS ), the smoke looks like fireballs. subir imagen If it is a pre upgrade save that is expected. From what I understand it may sort out the next turn, but I don't know that for certain. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glubokii Boy Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 12 hours ago, George MC said: That's the direction you want em to go - you then need to paint a normal AI plan area for the unit to organise itself in. e.e. an area large enough using painted green squares for your tank platoon to take up positions. I tried to do it this way...and it works just fine ! Perhaps the manual could be edited somewhat to decribe this a bit better... This is what it is saying now with regard to the withdraw-order: "By shift-clicking on the map, AI Groups can be ordered to Withdraw towards their movement destination. Vehicles will move in Reverse to the destination, while infantry will leapfrog back while turning around to face behind them." Maybe it's just me... but i think it would be a good idea if the manual mentioned that the desiger is to designate both a withdraw direction with the shift-click as well as the final possition of the withdraw-move with regular AI order Squares (simply left-clicking...no shift-key)... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivanov Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 6 hours ago, sburke said: If it is a pre upgrade save that is expected. From what I understand it may sort out the next turn, but I don't know that for certain. OK, it has to be it. I don't se the issue with the new games. BTW my opponent that still uses 3.0 is unable to load my turn save after I've upgraded to 4.0. Is it possible to install 3.0 and 4.0 on one computer? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMac Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 Yes, you can re-install 3.0 on same computer, but I believe you will need to rename the game so it doesn't install over existing 4.0 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 14 hours ago, Ivanov said: So in that case the tank is supposed to stop movement when it encounters a perfect hull down spot? 'Perfect' may be a bit stronger than I would use, but yes that is the idea. Mind you, I don't have the upgrade yet, so cannot testify how well this all works, but I notice that those who have seem uniformly enthusiastic, so I would guess that there is a good chance of it working for you once you get some experience with using it. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 2 hours ago, Ivanov said: OK, it has to be it. I don't se the issue with the new games. BTW my opponent that still uses 3.0 is unable to load my turn save after I've upgraded to 4.0. Is it possible to install 3.0 and 4.0 on one computer? Yes it is. I have both currently. Also it is always true that you need to be at same game engine level to play an opponent. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glubokii Boy Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 Much more fluid AI Vehicle-movement No more auto stopping at each new order-location and waiting for the next turn to rotate into possition and then move on... Is this new with V4 or has this been added before in a previous patch ? If soo...i missed that. Nice to see this having been fixed anyhow... Thanks ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivanov Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 5 hours ago, JoMc67 said: Yes, you can re-install 3.0 on same computer, but I believe you will need to rename the game so it doesn't install over existing 4.0 4 hours ago, Michael Emrys said: 'Perfect' may be a bit stronger than I would use, but yes that is the idea. Mind you, I don't have the upgrade yet, so cannot testify how well this all works, but I notice that those who have seem uniformly enthusiastic, so I would guess that there is a good chance of it working for you once you get some experience with using it. Michael 3 hours ago, sburke said: Yes it is. I have both currently. Also it is always true that you need to be at same game engine level to play an opponent. Thank you guys for you replies. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glubokii Boy Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 (edited) The AI area-target function is a nice addition to the mission designer. A small suggestion though... AREA TARGET - light Currently the first CTRL-click on a map square places an areatarget spot on the map at that location. A second CTRL-click on the same map square will remove it again. Would it be possible to include one additional toggle ?...A third CTRL-click 1st click place a regular AREA TARGET on the map Square. 2nd click turns that one into a AREA TARGET LIGHT on the same map Square. 3rd click will remove it. A target-light area target would have the same restrictions as the target-light already have in the game now. Could be useful those times that you don't want the AI to use HE or handheld AT weapons when providing suppresive fire... (SORRY ! for 'complaining' already...) Edited December 27, 2016 by RepsolCBR 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsF Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 On 24.12.2016 at 10:20 AM, Macisle said: FORWARD OBSERVER KILL CREDITS Does the kill credits counter increase for unconfirmed/unknown kills in the fog of war? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 There is no fog of war in the aar screen. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macisle Posted December 28, 2016 Author Share Posted December 28, 2016 (edited) A quick line to say the more I play, the more I like the Upgrade. The infantry spacing and other behavior enhancements are much more substantial than they first appeared when I posted earlier with initial impressions from a small amount of play. Today, I even saw a group of AI Germans flee one trench that was under attack, run to a nearby alternate trench, then flee back to the first trench when the second trench got attacked. Pretty amazing. It took a lot of fire to finish them off, too. Aside from the occasional suicidal rout path of my own units, the AI seems to handle its own routing units much better than before. It's still early, but that's the feeling I get anyway. I'm really loving the lower pace of casualties and extended firefights from same. The realism has gotten deeper and the CM battlefield is shining brighter than ever! The hard part is to stop playing... It's time for me to get back on a normal schedule again, but man is it hard to pull myself away from the awesomeness. Edited December 28, 2016 by Macisle 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockinHarry Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 (edited) 8 hours ago, Macisle said: A quick line to say the more I play, the more I like the Upgrade. The infantry spacing and other behavior enhancements are much more substantial than they first appeared when I posted earlier with initial impressions from a small amount of play. Today, I even saw a group of AI Germans flee one trench that was under attack, run to a nearby alternate trench, then flee back to the first trench when the second trench got attacked. Pretty amazing. It took a lot of fire to finish them off, too. Aside from the occasional suicidal rout path of my own units, the AI seems to handle its own routing units much better than before. It's still early, but that's the feeling I get anyway. I'm really loving the lower pace of casualties and extended firefights from same. The realism has gotten deeper and the CM battlefield is shining brighter than ever! The hard part is to stop playing... It's time for me to get back on a normal schedule again, but man is it hard to pull myself away from the awesomeness. From the 2 games I played thus far in V4.0 CMBN, I can confirm on the increased suicidal retrogade movements (AI initiated evade) from defending infantry. Green units also appear to be more brittle than before. In my urban test battle that I probably test played a hundred times before, I had a highly increased number of infantry that used the evade command, when pre V4.0 they held fast longer with higher suppression levels and just after taking 1-2 losses backing off. Now they don´t even need to take losses to leave their good cover buildings and instead of using interior retreat lines, move out into the open where enemy fire is the heaviest. I have not a big problem with units leaving likely untenable positions, but now the cure is worse than the desease. The main problem likely lies with the AI initiated evade command using quick or fast, to move away and thus prefering speed over cover. If the quick and fast move can be made to consider cover terrain more, particularly building interiors, we really would have a winner. On the better side, attacking AI appears to benefit more from the new behavior and takes less losses, as it breaks off high risk attacks sooner and keeps decimated units back in cover. An odd occasion I´ve never seen before and obviously originating from the new evade heavy fire feature, was a large ammo bearer team (part of an 88) that while 2-3 enemy Arty. shells fell in their environment, started to leave their foxholes with OK morale and yet fairly unsuppressed. Just when everybody was out, the remainder of the enemy salvo fell straight into the midst of the ammo bearer team, trying to cross a street just to reach a house 4-5 action spots away. Just one survior from the barrage made it into the house. I wasn´t amused. So that´s just some first impressions from 2 games played thus far. I´ve yet to try the new AI features in the mission editor, which I think are great additions and should make AI opponents noticably better. I´ve yet to take a closer look on infantry spacing and corner peeking, particularly related to terrain and speed (move, quick, fast...). Something else I noticed is the improved shaders. Textures appears to be smoother and overally the landscapes look crispier. Shadows appear improved as well. I also like the small arms smoke clouds. The pillbox vulnerability bug introduced in V3.12 appears to be also gone, so finally I can get back working on my CMBN siegfried line scenarios. Edited December 29, 2016 by RockinHarry 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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