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Separatist push/Ukraine shove back


Kinophile

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On 3/30/2017 at 4:08 PM, Haiduk said:

SSO doesn't say many about own work. Since three years of war we know only about several episodes with their participation. And these episodes almost all for 2014 year, when they as far as were not named SSO and havn't such vehicles.

Is it correct to assume that Ukrainian SSO consists of 3rd and 8th Spetsnaz regiments or are they a separate force from "army spetsnaz" as in Russia?

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6 hours ago, VladimirTarasov said:

@Haiduk do you think the war will ever escalate or will it continue to be like this? 

I can say only for our side - a tactic of "crawling advance" will be continue, possibly in more active way, but not soon - now many troops on frontline are rotating. For example 54th brigade on Svitlodarsk bulge is going back and 53rd is changing it. So, in this conditions, can expact DNR probes to push off our troops from recently seized positions, because of new-arrived troops not so good to know terrain features.

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5 hours ago, DreDay said:

Is it correct to assume that Ukrainian SSO consists of 3rd and 8th Spetsnaz regiments or are they a separate force from "army spetsnaz" as in Russia?

SSO since 2016 is separate structure (before was belonging to Army intelligence like in Russia). Consists of SSO Command, 140th Special operation center (created on base of 8th regiment), 3rd special forces regiment, 8th special forces regiment, 73rd Naval special operations center, 142nd special operations training center.

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4 minutes ago, Haiduk said:

SSO since 2016 is separate structure (before was belonging to Army intelligence like in Russia). Consists of SSO Command, 140th Special operation center (created on base of 8th regiment), 3rd special forces regiment, 8th special forces regiment, 73rd Naval special operations center, 142nd special operations training center.

I see, so basically army and navy spetsnaz assets have been taken from GUR and integrated into an independent branch? That makes sense. BTW, Russian SSO is also independent of GRU  and subordinates directly to the chief of general staff..

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10 hours ago, DreDay said:

I see, so basically army and navy spetsnaz assets have been taken from GUR and integrated into an independent branch? That makes sense. BTW, Russian SSO is also independent of GRU  and subordinates directly to the chief of general staff..

Yes, except Navy - 73rd center doesn't subordinate to GUR.

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Yesteday's (?) loss. BTR-70, probably 81st airmobile brigade blew up on the mine. Casualty list for today has 1 KIA and 2 WIA from this brigade, but pointed cause of death and injuries - MON-50 claymore type mine explosion. Possibly two different cases

C8lDAIcXgAMVKAU.jpg

Edited by Haiduk
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1 hour ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Why?  You could very easily make that with the units & terrain available in CM:BS.....Or do you mean current CM:BS scenarios do not feature sufficient use of fortifications?

I remember crap like that from CMBO, perhaps not including the dug-in tanks. Still nightmarish.

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Haikuk,

This is somewhat OT, but we have need of you here. We need to see the photos you've previously posted of the effects of direct artillery hits on tanks. Please respond to my long post on what I believe to be well founded conclusions regarding effects of observed numerous direct hits on one of TheForwardObserver's Abrams in CMBS. Thanks!

Regards,

John Kettler

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I'm curious about the layoy/shape of those trenches - classically, I understand that trenches are much more zig zag, instead of the graceful sine curve going on here. 

Those don't look like they'd deflect /shorten a blast wave, or provide much cover during a infantry infiltration.... 

Anyone more informed than me care to review? Terrain seems flatish, so  topography doesn't seem to be driving this...whatever this is. 

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kinophile,

I'm with you, for I was struck by that, too. This is the sort of thing I would expect. Note all the traverses in a position with a width of no more than 100 meters.

MR Squad

call_88-2_fig1a.gif

MR Platoon

call_88-2_fig2a.gif 

Image Credits: US Army via GlobalSecurity.org

Believe whoever designed and authorized such a terrible trench system should be required to man it under conditions of heavy shell fire or Grad strike!

Regards,

John Kettler

 

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5 hours ago, FoxZz said:

It looks like a liaison network between two positions, not an actual frontline trench network, one of the position being the tank shelters in the trees.

Still... Any trench should be assumed as a source of shelter. It's a lot of effort to dig one - and you only dig one with the primary expectation that you might/will need it for shelter from an artillery barrage/other incoming fires. If you're just communicating between two positions then this minor curve business is pretty useless - it only increases your travel distance and you lose any possibility of communicating visually along the trench.

Any trench should be assumed is a possible target for assaulting infantry. The normal zigzag helps reduce their effective range once in the system, reduces their visbility into your still held parts and constrains them in smaller spaces (each keg I'd the zig and zag). These long curves give enemy infantry space to spread out. 

Also, I believe any substance or pressure wave travelling around a curve can maintain and even increase it's velocity. So these odd looking trenches (which appear properly deep) could serve to channel, focus and increase the density, effect and speed of an artillery explosion blast pressure wave. 

Am I way off here? 

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I think, this is just uncomplited positions, pay attention on "NEWLY-DUG" word. OSCE UAV filmed only first phase, when engineer vehicle have excavated trenches - you can see fresh ground on breastworks. Soon soldiers will come and finished it with shovels - make covers, blindages and firing positions. 

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17 minutes ago, Haiduk said:

I think, this is just uncomplited positions, pay attention on "NEWLY-DUG" word. OSCE UAV filmed only first phase, when engineer vehicle have excavated trenches - you can see fresh ground on breastworks. Soon soldiers will come and finished it with shovels - make covers, blindages and firing positions. 

I was wondering about that, with the tracks all around the trenches. 

Copy, thank you. 

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Haiduk,

Could you please say what the primary threat axis is, as seen from the perspective of the Russian proxies? Are the tanks oriented to it, or is that simply how they're situated in the deep earthworks, with the threat axis (from UKR) in some other direction? Shall be most interested to see how the bizarre to me communication trenches are turned into proper ones  in the days ahead. Am with kinophile in his views on the funneling effect of what we see now. To me, anyone in that with an explosion in the trench close enough by is going to become a pea in a peashooter, and it won't be fun.

Regards,

John Kettler

Edited by John Kettler
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1 hour ago, John Kettler said:

Haiduk,

Could you please say what the primary threat axis is, as seen from the perspective of the Russian proxies? 

Alas, no. If the OSCE pointed out the coordinates, I would be able to find this place on the map and say where the enemy is expecting a threat, but by this picture I can't say anything. Looks like this pisition guards a corner of crossroad somewhere in fields. Our positions are on west and south-west from Kalynove. 

Edited by Haiduk
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In February I posted information that DNR KAMAZ truck was destroyed on outskirt of Maryinka by UKR forces. Now the video has appeared and surprisingly this was ATGM "Baryer" (vehicle mounted analog of "Stugna-P") of BTR-4E of 92nd mech.brigade. 

Video has been filmed from display of BTR-4. Operator at the end says "Looks like it hit between a cabin and bodywork". One DNR troper was killed, one heavy wounded (the arm has torn off), troopers in bodyowrk have got light wounds.

Place of truck hit pointed by red circle on the map

C9SSeshXYAE2HQI.jpg:large

  

Edited by Haiduk
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Tourchinov, who roleplays "tough guy", made many loud statements He threatens to attack until border e.t.c. Also he took responsibility for bombing Donetsk airport in 2014. It seems that roads are dry enough to start new offence.

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2 hours ago, DMS said:

Tourchinov, who roleplays "tough guy", made many loud statements He threatens to attack until border e.t.c. Also he took responsibility for bombing Donetsk airport in 2014. It seems that roads are dry enough to start new offence.

He said "meter by meter", i.e. continuing of "crawling offensive" tactic. Nothing new. Of course, as acting president in that time, he had gave permission on operation in airport in 2014. Or should he gave up strategic object - airport in hands of armed men, which seized it and wait "gentle green men" in IL-76 ? :)  Bombing... Heh... Pair of Mi-24 have launched only unguided rockets and shelled building with a canons. But their attack had only caused death of several fighters on the roof and inside terminal and made more morale suppressing effect. Looks like enemy leaders believed that Akhmetov had influed on authorities as weel as in case with seizing of administrative, police and SBU buildings, and wouldn't any attempts to take newest airport back with shooting.   

Edited by Haiduk
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Haiduk, I just say.

"Meter by meter" was nice, "Meter by meter go in Ukraine soldiers of group "Center" - quote from Soviet popular song. :)

It seems that there is something new, Chodakovskiy for several days says about preparations to offence, 25 tanks at Vosdvizhenka, it is much for this war. 

17855455_164600577396002_795832713064843

Though he is local pessimist and всепропальщик.

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