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      Special Upgrade 4 Tech Tips   12/27/2016

      Hi all! Now that Upgrade 4 is out and about in large quantities we have now discovered a few SNAFUs that happen out in the scary, real world that is home computing.  Fortunately the rate of problems is extremely small and so far most are easily worked around.  We've identified a few issues that have similar causes which we have clear instructions for work arounds here they are: 1.  CMRT Windows customers need to re-license their original key.  This is a result of improvements to the licensing system which CMBN, CMBS, and CMFB are already using.  To do this launch CMRT with the Upgrade and the first time enter your Engine 4 key.  Exit and then use the "Activate New Products" shortcut in your CMRT folder, then enter your Engine 3 license key.  That should do the trick. 2.  CMRT and CMBN MacOS customers have a similar situation as #2, however the "Activate New Products" is inside the Documents folder in their respective CM folders.  For CMBN you have to go through the process described above for each of your license keys.  There is no special order to follow. 3.  For CMBS and CMFB customers, you need to use the Activate New Products shortcut and enter your Upgrade 4 key.  If you launch the game and see a screen that says "LICENSE FAILURE: Base Game 4.0 is required." that is an indication you haven't yet gone through that procedure.  Provided you had a properly functioning copy before installing the Upgrade, that should be all you need to do.  If in the future you have to install from scratch on a new system you'll need to do the same procedure for both your original license key and your Upgrade 4.0 key. 4.  There's always a weird one and here it is.  A few Windows users are not getting "Activate New Products" shortcuts created during installation.  Apparently anti-virus software is preventing the installer from doing its job.  This might not be a problem right now, but it will prove to be an issue at some point in the future.  The solution is to create your own shortcut using the following steps: Disable your anti-virus software before you do anything. Go to your Desktop, right click on the Desktop itself, select NEW->SHORTCUT, use BROWSE to locate the CM EXE that you are trying to fix. The location is then written out. After it type in a single space and then paste this:

      -showui

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      Forum Reorganization   10/12/2017

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Tips for spotting AT guns

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Forgot to mention - yes I know rockets are not particularly accurate, but I've also had the same problem with other artillery as well, and keeping an obo on the target with LOS can be like a separate little battle all on it's own!

But I'd like to say I appreciate all the comments and advise given here.

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With regards to artillery DENIED - it's worth playing around in a setup screen with a minimal force - an FO, some HQ's etc. and different types of artillery.

Use Alt-Z to turn on the command lines and then move units around to have them in and not in command and note when the artillery is and isn't available. That should quickly give you a good idea of how to arrange your troops so that your artillery is almost always available and on call.

Hope it helps :) 

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IIRC, the DENIED message specifically means you are trying to use an HQ unit to call in an artillery or air asset that requires an FO. Artillery assets that require an FO are label "FO required" in the purchase menu.

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The Russians particularly were not very flexible with their small unit on-call artillery support. This is one of the reasons why you've got so many direct fire artillery vehicles on the Russian side. They let an accompanying ISU-152 platoon make up for lack of proper on-call artillery. A recent game change is spotters are no longer able to call in multiple missions at the same time. So if you have you spotter give a max/harass fire mission to artillery they're going to spend the rest of the game tying your spotter up as they drop one round at a time on the map.

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I dunno if different titles handle FO's differently, but I have founds that once a barrage starts, the spotter is freed up to order other strikes.

Edited by Erwin

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49 minutes ago, Erwin said:

<Snip> that once a barrage starts, the spotter is freed up to order other strikes.

+1 This.  And the observer can adjust this original fire mission onto new targets as needed.  If it is a low rate of fire, low tube, maximum time mission the observer can adjust onto new targets with short delays for some time.  My sustained fire rate for a US 105mm Battery is 34 minutes.

@MikeyD  That is firing on light not harass.  However my SOP is to use harass with certain mortars and they drop more than one round a turn.  If they didn't I would increase the rate of fire to light for them also.  IIRC I have only seen the spotting rounds of some assets come in at one round a turn. 

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+1  Yes this is also my SOP.  Realistic or just another gamey tactic that works in the game?

Also, HARASS fire can be useful if there are multiple tubes.  3-6 tubes of 150mm on HARASS can be nasty for a long time.

I have a gripe that if you select multiple on-map mortars to fire together, each mortar will waste ammo for spotting rounds.

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6 hours ago, Erwin said:

I have a gripe that if you select multiple on-map mortars to fire together, each mortar will waste ammo for spotting rounds.

My guess that is because they, unlike off-map artillery, are not firing from surveyed locations. Thus, the firing data for one is useless for other tubes.

An interesting option, if you just want to make the programmers' lives a bit more complicated, would be to be able to have on-map arty of any sort fire from a surveyed location. They would have to be in that location at the beginning of the game and they would lose that status if they move (surveying takes time, possibly more than would be available in a CM battle).

Michael

Edited by Michael Emrys

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13 hours ago, Michael Emrys said:

My guess that is because they, unlike off-map artillery, are not firing from surveyed locations. Thus, the firing data for one is useless for other tubes.

An interesting option, if you just want to make the programmers' lives a bit more complicated, would be to be able to have on-map arty of any sort fire from a surveyed location. They would have to be in that location at the beginning of the game and they would lose that status if they move (surveying takes time, possibly more than would be available in a CM battle).

Michael

Hmmm....a nice use of a TRP? One TRP near the firing location means it's a surveyed firing location? Another TRP near the target location and you've got much faster response and better accuracy?

Ken

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14 hours ago, Michael Emrys said:

My guess that is because they, unlike off-map artillery, are not firing from surveyed locations. Thus, the firing data for one is useless for other tubes.

An interesting option, if you just want to make the programmers' lives a bit more complicated, would be to be able to have on-map arty of any sort fire from a surveyed location. They would have to be in that location at the beginning of the game and they would lose that status if they move (surveying takes time, possibly more than would be available in a CM battle).

Michael

However, if one starts with deployed mortars on-map in set-up turn, that at least should be defined as "surveyed".  I rarely feel the need to move on-map mortars from set-up since the CM2 maps are smallish.  IIRC in CM1 on-map arty like mortars did not require individual spotting when fired as a battery. 

A TRP at the target location already provides the fast response and accuracy of a prepped plan/surveyed location - can't see the need of a 2nd TRP near the firing unit.

Edited by Erwin

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A lot of artillery fire wasn't meant to actually hit anything, it was more 'area denial'. Drop artillery shells on an intersection frequently enough that nobody would want to risk driving through it. Players seem to not much like this form of harassment. I believe on CMFB QB maps opening barrage AI harassing fire was left out due to popular demand, Opening barrage AI fire can be considered pre-planned firing on unobserved coordinates.

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7 hours ago, Erwin said:

However, if one starts with deployed mortars on-map in set-up turn, that at least should be defined as "surveyed".

That's what I said. :D

BTW, I haven't tried it, but I suspect that's how the game works for pre-planned missions.

Michael

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Yes, I was responding to "Hmmm....a nice use of a TRP? One TRP near the firing location means it's a surveyed firing location? Another TRP near the target location and you've got much faster response and better accuracy? ".

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And what's about area target button? Is is realistic enough to order tank to target question mark?

How to get question marks? Infantry. They spot firing gun easily. Then get them close to the tank, they will report tankmen where gun is.

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Currently playing "Hunting for the bug". Came to this thread to figure out how to deal with tank spotting of AT guns at long range after losing 4 tanks to 2 AT guns in less than 2 minutes (6 tanks lost to the 2 AT guns in total so far).

After reviewing the comments, it seems that there are no "tips" for spotting AT guns with tanks: the AT gun will spot your tank first and will destroy it (might be an exception for green AT crews but they're uncommon). In fact, it will spot and destroy many of your tanks first, even if they all have LoS on the guns simultaneously, are unbuttoned, and are dispersed. 

So my conclusion is that if you are not ok with sacrificing 2-4 tanks and their crews to finally spot and destroy an AT gun, then keep your tanks on standby until the AT guns are dealt with using artillery or infantry. 

IMO this is not a realistic feature. I have four tanks with LoS on the AT gun positions. The tanks are unbuttoned. When a large 88 mm AT gun fires, I expect crew members with LoS on those AT guns to spot them. But they don't. 

Anybody know how these situations played out in reality during WWII? My guess is that if AT guns were present, tanks would hide until they were dealt with. Perhaps tanks would fire on the known location of the guns at times from hidden position, although I don't see how this tactic could be used in game because the tanks will be spotted and destroyed with relentless precision. 

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Just now, Pericles said:

Currently playing "Hunting for the bug". Came to this thread to figure out how to deal with tank spotting of AT guns at long range after losing 4 tanks to 2 AT guns in less than 2 minutes (6 tanks lost to the 2 AT guns in total so far).

 

T-34-76 didn't have dedicated commander, he had to fire the gun and to observe the battlefield in the same time. In the game this tanks have huge spotting penalty. Sometimes it is realistic, sometimes not. I think tank had narrow field of view, but in this field of view spotting should be normal. T-34's could ignore infantry at 4 hours, but spotted forward good, like any other tank. When tank isn't firing. While firing commander didn't observe at all.

In this mission I sent infantry forward. HMGs supressed 88's from 1000 metres, mech platoon tried to get closer. Infantry reported intel to tankmen, than T-34s rushed forward. I lost 3-4 tanks, including T-70.

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(spoiler alert for Hunting for the Bug)

 

 

I played this scenario twice and found it a great lesson in dealing with AT guns without indirect fire. I agree with DMS that it’s helfpul to have the  MGs suppress the 88s. The infantry are great for spotting the guns. The first time, i then had the infantry get in close and overrun the 88s , but that’s really slow and the tanks have to basically just hide, removing them as an advantage. 

The second time I found the tanks, with some help, can take care off he 88s  themselves: After the infantry spot the guns, they can share the information with the tanks, which then get ? icons on the guns’ locations. I then had a whole tank company pull up into positions on the wooded knoll and area fire at the suspected gun positions. The 88s might kill a couple tanks before they die, but they’ll already be partly suppressed by the MGs, and then by the hail of 76mm HE, which will quickly knock them out. I’ve found that massed tank area fire onto AT gun positions that infantry have previously spottted is pretty effective in many scenarios  

Of course, this applies once you know the 88s are out there in the first place, which probably means finding out when they blow up a T-70.

Edited by General Liederkranz

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