Jump to content
Battlefront.com

Black Sea v1.04 released!

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Jammersix said:

No. That's one of the things he means by "un-Mac-like".

Mac lets us choose.

Actually, recent security changes made by Apple are reducing choices.  And their infinitely buggy and horribly flawed installer which we have to use doesn't make it any easier for developers.  But whatever, you know more than we do about these things.

Quote

The example he gave, his "games" folder, is a perfect example. He likes his apps divided between games and whatever other divisions he has.

Macs let him do that.

You can do it on Windows too, in case you weren't aware.  The issue is that Windows, even more than MacOS, discourages that behavior for security reasons.  Both OSes are making it more difficult for people to run apps outside of a "protected garden", so be prepared to see more of it each release.  But again, you know more about this than we do so I deffer to your superior knowledge.

Quote

There are MANY (MANY, did you catch that?) ways that the Combat Mission series (all of them) are un-Mac-like. More that we have bandwidth for, or I can remember to list. Everything from fonts and font sizes to key bindings to overriding OS notifications in full screen. So many ways that if I sat down and started a list, a week from now after concentrating on nothing else, taking careful notes, and playing for eight hours a day, I'd leave something out.

It is definitely true that we do not spend significant time catering to every latest whiz-bang feature that Apple introduces.  When our MacOS sales are more than (roughly) 7% of our total sales then perhaps we might divert attention away from the game and start adding largely unnecessary Mac specific features.  Or we could simply stop making MacOS games because they don't meet your expectations.  Of the two, guess which one is probably the smarter business move?  You've demonstrated how smart you are, I'll trust you can figure that one out for yourself.

Quote

The Combat Mission series are absolutely, categorically, unmistakably a Windows game ported to the Mac by a team that thought Mac users wouldn't notice.

And you are absolutely, categorically, unmistakably wrong.  Combat Mission has always been coded primarily on MacOS since the days of MacOS 8.  And "porting" isn't what we do since the development environment and code base is inherently cross-platform.  Which is why Windows and MacOS patches come out on the same day, which apparently you don't appreciate.  On top of that, for Charles and I our primary computers are MacOS.  Speaking personally, that's been the case for me since 1987 when I got a Mac Plus.  Though it is true that when push comes to shove that we cater to features that benefit 100% of our customer base, not ones that only a small number of a small percentage of our customers care about.

Look, I don't know what bug crawled up your backside in recent days, but if you want to whine and complain about our support for an OS that almost no other game developer gives the time of day to, why don't you take it somewhere else?  It's the sort of counter productive behavior that gives Mac users such a bad reputation as being spoiled children.  As a Mac user since almost the beginning I'd greatly appreciate if you stop reinforcing that stereotype on our forum.

Steve

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, PhilM said:

And FWIW, though I'm by no means a Mac expert, given that literally every application I have on my machine, both Apple and third-party made, is by default stored in Applications, and where applicable they are auto-updated there by their various helper routines, I'd always assumed that BF were following the dictates of the Mac OS to locate CM products there, and so target the updates there also, rather than it being BF's peculiarity to work to that default location?

While it's the default and most convenient option, and nearly universally used by anyone who doesn't have an idiosyncratic way of doing things (guilty, I confess), it's not required. In fact, the ability to put applications anywhere is a side-effect of the Mac philosophy that virtually all applications can/should run without administrator privileges. So quite often I try out apps and games in my home directory, in my normal account (that is not an admin account), and if I don't like them, I just drag them to the trash, all without needing to authenticate. And if that blows your minds, I'm a software developer who primarily uses a Mac, and I develop in an account that doesn't have admin or even sudo privileges. It's more secure, and as a developer, it teaches you how to keep your software running in a more user-like environment.

Theological digression aside, I thank PhilM for his suggested workaround, and I heartily thank Battlefront for supporting the Mac. 

[Edit] Ninja'd by Steve...and yeah, I have noticed it getting harder for me to maintain my idiosyncrasies as Apple steps up the protection of its application folders.

Edited by DrDon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you say so. Your comment about OS 8 tells me that you, personally haven't been with the game long.

But you're consistent. You either blame the user or Apple.

Combat Mission ceased production of the Mac version when system 7 came out. Then they blamed Apple, exactly like you just did. Then they sold a game that wasn't compatable with system 9, because system 9 came out before Combat Mission for system 8 was ready. They blamed Apple for breaking the graphics on that one.

There's HUGE difference between coding a game for the Mac and porting a Windows game to the Mac in Mac code.

You business model is to run the company as a hobby, by your own words, even though the money we pay you is real. You have the best simulation on the market in your hands, without doubt, and you can't seem to handle it well enough to get rich. This game is so far beyond anything else on the market that you could go up against Blizzard's WoW and win, but you can't seem to get it done. There is an unlimited market out there, every front of every war, every force from every country, every month of every year since the invention of gunpowder.

There is still the 81% bug in Shock Force, so I had to laugh at your claim that you address concerns and push the game forward. You do so. When you have the time. The idea that it's a hobby is your words. I remember them because they annoyed me at the time.

You guys blame Apple, the user or anyone else except yourselves when something is wrong. You've done so since System 7 put a stop to production of your Mac product.

Do the game. Do it right. Make the money, you deserve it. And for god's sake, hire a PR person to talk for you on this forum.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, PhilM said:

Glad you got it working.

I don't have your issue of wanting to exclude things from backups: but would it not be the work of a merely few more seconds to set up the backup exclusions by specifying the game / app folder names individually rather than by using your "Games folder" route? (Said humbly: it is of course your Mac and your choice!)

That is what I do.  I have all kinds of things excluded, for example Downloads and in fact Applications.  I back up my Apps every once and a while manually.

2 hours ago, PhilM said:

And FWIW, though I'm by no means a Mac expert, given that literally every application I have on my machine, both Apple and third-party made, is by default stored in Applications, and where applicable they are auto-updated there by their various helper routines, I'd always assumed that BF were following the dictates of the Mac OS to locate CM products there

You assume correctly :D  Things are complicated by the fact that Apple's installer is extremely buggy.  In theory it should find a person's CM pretty much wherever it is.  However, there are conditions (which we don't understand) where the installer simply won't do it.  Since Apple has a wonderful range of ways to launch apps quickly and easily, I don't really see the point in having them elsewhere.  Like everything in life, there are trade offs for any decision/method and people who don't understand that are likely to make themselves (and often others) unhappy.

3 minutes ago, DrDon said:

While it's the default and most convenient option, and nearly universally used by anyone who doesn't have an idiosyncratic way of doing things (guilty, I confess), it's not required. In fact, the ability to put applications anywhere is a side-effect of the Mac philosophy that virtually all applications can/should run without administrator privileges. So quite often I try out apps and games in my home directory, in my normal account (that is not an admin account), and if I don't like them, I just drag them to the trash, all without needing to authenticate. And if that blows your minds, I'm a software developer who primarily uses a Mac, and I develop in an account that doesn't have admin or even sudo privileges. It's more secure, and as a developer, it teaches you how to keep your software running in a more user-like environment.

Yikes!  I understand the logic, but wow... that's definitely not how Apple intends you to use things.  As you say, you CAN use it that way, but I'm sure Apple wouldn't recommend it even though for you there's definite upside.  As I said above, everything has tradeoffs.

3 minutes ago, DrDon said:

Theological digression aside, I thank PhilM for his suggested workaround, and I heartily thank Battlefront for supporting the Mac. 

Thanks and we do know that the vast majority of Mac customers appreciate that we have always supported them and even after 16 years have not abandoned them.  Just be thankful that I sold all my Apple stock in 1996 and didn't hold onto it until 2016.  Man, I'd be so outta hear if I had :D  Not quite my own private tropical island, but man I'd be sitting pretty right now!  Oh well, I bought at 11 and sold at 29 so it's not I did too badly at the time :D

3 minutes ago, DrDon said:

[Edit] Ninja'd by Steve...and yeah, I have noticed it getting harder for me to maintain my idiosyncrasies as Apple steps up the protection of its application folders.

They are definitely moving more towards an iOS approach.  Mac users should expect less and less choice in the future.  Hopefully not as restrictive as Windows already is, but it is definitely moving in that direction.

Steve

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Battlefront.com said:

The full story is that we changed the specific DRM wrapper for the app (Mac) and EXE (PC).  The new wrapper allows a customer to purchase a CM product and have one code that is useful for both Mac and PC.  In the past it was one or the other.  This new functionality is useful to the many people that have a Mac laptop and a PC desktop. 

Just in case people missed this gem in all the Mac vs PC pissing contest...

This is really cool! And an unannounced addition. I personally know someone who will like this.

I cannot get him to stay on the light side and stick with a PC he keeps wondering off to the Mac :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Jammersix said:

If you say so. Your comment about OS 8 tells me that you, personally haven't been with the game long.

Er, how do you figure that?  I've been with it since it was hex based.  Did you even know it was hex based?  Sure was, for all of 6 months back in 1996.  But again, you know what you're talking about so I must be imagining things.

Quote

But you're consistent. You either blame the user or Apple.

The error that got you on this tear of yours was not related to anything Mac specific and I took full responsibility for the problem.  But again, I bow to your superior observations.  Your track record is stellar.

Quote

Combat Mission ceased production of the Mac version when system 7 came out. Then they blamed Apple, exactly like you just did. Then they sold a game that wasn't compatable with system 9, because system 9 came out before Combat Mission for system 8 was ready. They blamed Apple for breaking the graphics on that one.

The "they" is "me", so let's get that straight.  Although I hesitate to correct your superior knowledge, you are wrong.  Apple created something called RAVE as a 3D graphics library.  When we started working on CMBO MacOS 8 (probably 8.6) was the current OS.  Apple told us how awesome RAVE was and that it would be supported for a long time.  They convinced fools like us to believe them.  After we had invested all that time in creating the core of the game, using RAVE, Apple made the purchase of NeXT and they announced that they would be creating what we now know is OS X.  At first they said they said RAVE would be supported under OS X so we kept on developing.  Then, almost just before we were ready to launch, Steve Jobs (you remember that guy, right?) announced that they were abandoning RAVE in favor of supporting OpenGL.  We were screwed, therefore you got screwed, by Apple.  However, long term it was the RIGHT thing to do and we do not begrudge Apple for their decision.

Because you obviously like being well informed, here's a Wiki article about it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QuickDraw_3D

As an aside, at the time there was no Windows version of CMx1.  The Windows version was a port from the Mac.

Quote

There's HUGE difference between coding a game for the Mac and porting a Windows game to the Mac in Mac code.

Correct.  And since CM is inherently cross platformable, there are features for both Windows and Mac that we don't support.  That's a function of limited development time.  We have always focused on the game, not on OS specific bling.  But you know so much about our MacOS specific support that I'm sure you are also well aware of our Windows specific support.

Quote

You business model is to run the company as a hobby, by your own words, even though the money we pay you is real. You have the best simulation on the market in your hands, without doubt, and you can't seem to handle it well enough to get rich.

Except for the fact that we are catering to a cantankerous tiny slice of the market which complains about spending $10 on Upgrades while 99% of the game market out there won't give us the time of day.  Other than that, yeah we should be rich!

Quote

This game is so far beyond anything else on the market that you could go up against Blizzard's WoW and win, but you can't seem to get it done. There is an unlimited market out there, every front of every war, every force from every country, every month of every year since the invention of gunpowder.

And yet the production costs are extremely high and the market is extremely small.  Other than that, sure we could be the next Blizzard.

Quote

There is still the 81% bug in Shock Force, so I had to laugh at your claim that you address concerns and push the game forward. You do so. When you have the time. The idea that it's a hobby is your words. I remember them because they annoyed me at the time.

We do address concerns.  They are called patches.  This is a thread discussing one such patch.  However, we do not patch things forever and that's just the way it goes.

As for the hobby thing... you remember incorrectly.  That's the philosophy we have toward the subject matter.  Meaning, we do not see our customers as pieces of meat attached to bank accounts.  We develop the games you guys want as best we can within the economic constraints we are forced to operate within.  Since there's very few companies that have been around as long as us, have made such awesome games (which you seem to admit to), I think our philosophy is fine.  Your attitude, on the other hand, leaves a lot to be desired.

Quote

You guys blame Apple, the user or anyone else except yourselves when something is wrong. You've done so since System 7 put a stop to production of your Mac product.

No, we lay blame where blame should be.  If we make a mistake, such as I made with the backend database, we have no problems taking responsibility for it.  But you skim over things like that because you've got a chip on your shoulder and things which don't conform to your distorted, incorrect view of the world are ignored.  For example, you are playing CM on Mac right now, so obviously we didn't stop producing Mac product since System 7.

Quote

Do the game. Do it right. Make the money, you deserve it. And for god's sake, hire a PR person to talk for you on this forum.

Whiners like you have been saying that since 1998 when we started this Forum.  We did listen to you and stopped letting Charles post.  He was even less patient with people like you than I am.

Plus, if you want us to hire a PR flak... sure.  New price of all CM games is $75 so we can cover the costs of a new hire.  We'll get our Human Resources department right on that.  Oh wait, we don't have one of those either.  OK, cost of all new CM games from now on is $95.  Any other hires you want us to take on while we're adjusting our business model to suit your needs?

Steve

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, DrDon said:

I was hoping to avoid moving things back and forth, but it worked. I honestly don't remember having to do that for previous patches.

Requiring a specific application location is un-Mac-like. I mainly keep my games separate so I can exclude them from automated backups easily. MMOs especially are huge and update frequently, so you end up with many copies filling up your Time Capsule.

You can in Time Machine options choose to exclude whatever you want in a mac like way... inc. Applications folder or individual apps

Image%202016-10-22%20at%2012.56.00%20pm.

 

CMBS - Patched and working - stilll needed serial but no. took and game working.

So re. serial working on both Mac and PC versions of the game - mean I can now download Mac version of say CM Italy which I have a a PC serial and it'll now work?

 

Edited by Wicky

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Wicky said:

So re. serial working on both Mac and PC versions of the game - mean I can now download Mac version of say CM Italy which I have a a PC serial and it'll now work?

Soon, yes.  The redo of the licensing system (which wasn't possible until this summer) is the first step in that direction.  We'll soon introduce the ability for customers to have access to both downloads and have their one license key work for either/both.  We'll still have people select an OS at the time of purchase, though that is mostly so we can have some sense of how many Mac users we have.  Also, for those purchasing physical goods a choice will need to be made because we will only send out one DVD with each order.

Steve

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's one of my points: this game could go for a hundred or more, it's that good a game.

But not with you posting on the board.

I heard you say (assuming it was you. I'm not convinced it's always been you, the first falling out I had with CMBO was when System 7 came out, and it sounds like that was before you were involved.)

Shock Force shipped with the 81% bug. You were told about it, I know you were, because I told you about it, and I know of at least one other player who told you about it. It was never fixed, through the life of Shock Force.

So when you inject arrogance into your post, and you try to talk over me to tell me that you push the game forward, you patch and improve the game in prompt response to customer's complaints, I remember system 7, I remember system 8, I remember system 9, I remember Shock Force, and my stomach turns over.

Post less, patch more, make all parts of the game truly Mac like, and I"d be happy to pay a hundred or a hundred and fifty bucks a copy. I want to play Final Blitzkrieg with a friend, but he's got a moratorium going on buying your games until you fix whatever it is he wants fixed.

We have the money, and the money means nothing to us. We'll pay the price you need if you deliver the product we want.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Jammersix said:

patch more, make all parts of the game truly Mac like, 

No thanks. Seriously you think that making the game more mac like makes any kind if sense? As a PC user I would actively disagree with wanting the game to be more mac like. As a fan of the games I don't want them to spend time making the game more PC like even. I would rather they work on more game features and game content.

 

3 hours ago, Jammersix said:

I want to play Final Blitzkrieg with a friend, but he's got a moratorium going on buying your games until you fix whatever it is he wants fixed.

And what would that be. Talk about arrogance :D

<Snark deleted> 

I'm not not going to post what I was going to and just stop reading this thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Jammersix said:

That's one of my points: this game could go for a hundred or more, it's that good a game.

Post less, patch more, make all parts of the game truly Mac like, and I"d be happy to pay a hundred or a hundred and fifty bucks a copy. I want to play Final Blitzkrieg with a friend, but he's got a moratorium going on buying your games until you fix whatever it is he wants fixed.

We have the money, and the money means nothing to us. We'll pay the price you need if you deliver the product we want.

Hmm sounds like you are ready to finance your own game company. Excellent, the industry could use more.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 20.10.2016 at 10:10 PM, armchairGman said:

I'm building a new scenario from scratch after I installed the update this morning.  I'm using the Chernova Hirka Mastermap v1.btt that came with my install of CMBS.  in the last 4 hours I've had 3 crash to desktop events.  I'm not running any mods and this is a brand new install of CMBS.  I never had a signal CTD with v1.3 CMBS or CMFB.  I am running a new motherboard (hence the clean reinstall).  I'm not 100% sure v1.4 is the culprit.  The CTD happens when I load 3D view in the editor.  The load screen gets to about 30% and crashes about 1 in 20 times.  Other hardware I upgraded was CPU to a i5 6600k oc'd to 4.1 stable after multiple stress tests with heavy duty cooling system, upgraded to 16gb of ram at stock freq.  Most everything else was reused.  Sorry to data dump here, just trying to nail down what the issue might be.  Rebuild is about a week old, no other programs have run into issues (yet:unsure:).  I've been playing CM titles a bunch since my hardware upgrade.

 

Has anyone else experienced new CTD events after the update?

 

PS  Forgot to mention I upgraded from Win7 to Win10.  I believe it's supposed to be compatible without me having to fool around with the settings.

 

BTW this is my first post on the forums.

Battlefront, you guys are awesome and in my opinion don't get enough press and praise for the products you produce.  I've been into serious warsims for a few years now, and I just stumbled across your company a few months ago.

Thanks again!

HI,

I am the author of that master map and as far as I know it is not included in the base game. Are you certain you did not download it since I did release it for public use in scenario depot? In any case it seems to me that your hardware might not be powerful enough to run that map as it is very very big and detailed and thus causes ctds in lower end machines. This is a "normal" performance problem inherent in CMx2 engine. Try setting your graphic settings as low as possible and see if you can load the map or more advisable solution is to cut the map in smaller pieces in editor so that your pc can handle it. Hope this helps.

Cheers!

-H1nd

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Battlefront.com said:

Plus, if you want us to hire a PR flak... sure.  New price of all CM games is $75 so we can cover the costs of a new hire.  We'll get our Human Resources department right on that.  Oh wait, we don't have one of those either.  OK, cost of all new CM games from now on is $95.  Any other hires you want us to take on while we're adjusting our business model to suit your needs?

Steve

Umm, I'm new around here and only recently discovered this wonderful series.  Instead of pissing the guys off that build these products maybe we should be a little more diplomatic about any frustrations we as consumers have.  While we do pay real money for the games/simulations,  I've been very impressed with the overall quality of what we get with those dollars/euros etc.  I'm running into a bug myself but it doesn't need brought up on this forum.  I work in marketing and it's been my experience that being a big firm typically just means you're capable of making a bigger FUBAR (think SimCity5).

On top of that, my guess is most of us use these games as hobbies/relaxation.  I doubt hiring a PR consultant would be very beneficial  (we're over paid:D).  I would have a hard time justifying spending 100 bucks on a video game (or more precisely justifying to my wife).  My first reaction is the best form of advertising for CM is word of mouth on other forums and posts of this niche market.

Just my un-asked for 2cents.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, armchairGman said:

Umm, I'm new around here and only recently discovered this wonderful series.  Instead of pissing the guys off that build these products maybe we should be a little more diplomatic about any frustrations we as consumers have.  While we do pay real money for the games/simulations,  I've been very impressed with the overall quality of what we get with those dollars/euros etc.  I'm running into a bug myself but it doesn't need brought up on this forum.  I work in marketing and it's been my experience that being a big firm typically just means you're capable of making a bigger FUBAR (think SimCity5).

On top of that, my guess is most of us use these games as hobbies/relaxation.  I doubt hiring a PR consultant would be very beneficial  (we're over paid:D).  I would have a hard time justifying spending 100 bucks on a video game (or more precisely justifying to my wife).  My first reaction is the best form of advertising for CM is word of mouth on other forums and posts of this niche market.

Just my un-asked for 2cents.

This is far too adult a post. Sorry you need a decent rant somewhere in there :D. As to bugs absolutely you can post. It can only help, BF has no fear of bug reports, it is after all software.  As to how it gets treated and analyzed would remain to be seen based on the nature of the bug, but is totally acceptable, expected and desired to be reported on the forum. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Jammersix said:

That's one of my points: this game could go for a hundred or more, it's that good a game.

But not with you posting on the board.

Hilarious :D  I think most people enjoy and appreciate the fact that one of the guys who makes the games you've played takes the time to post and engage with customers.  I also know, from experience, that they appreciate me not brown nosing.  When a customer is right, I say they are right.  When a customer is wrong, I say they are wrong. I doubt that being dishonest and failing to challenge factually flawed ranting customers who have completely lost all grip on perspective will get everybody to pay $45 more than they would if I personally puckered up and planted one on your backside.

6 hours ago, Jammersix said:

I heard you say (assuming it was you. I'm not convinced it's always been you, the first falling out I had with CMBO was when System 7 came out, and it sounds like that was before you were involved.)

As with pretty much everything else you've said, you're wrong.  I was involved with Combat Mission since it was drawn on a cocktail napkin stained with Guinness.  System 7 was supported, but MacOS 8 (which was when Apple switched naming) was king at the time coding was started.

And all your other whacko anti-Mac conspiracy theories that you trotted out are equally off the mark by a wide margin.

6 hours ago, Jammersix said:

Shock Force shipped with the 81% bug. You were told about it, I know you were, because I told you about it, and I know of at least one other player who told you about it. It was never fixed, through the life of Shock Force.

And yet we still have people playing it nearly 10 years later.  And I've not heard much about it during that time.  So little, in fact, that I can't remember the specifics of it.

6 hours ago, Jammersix said:

So when you inject arrogance into your post, and you try to talk over me to tell me that you push the game forward, you patch and improve the game in prompt response to customer's complaints, I remember system 7, I remember system 8, I remember system 9, I remember Shock Force, and my stomach turns over.

Heh... arrogance.  Let's rewind to how this started.  Two Mac customers reported a problem.  I announced that I made a mistake and fixed it within minutes.  One of the customers confirmed the fix worked.  You then said we released a broken patch and a laundry list of factually incorrect accusations.  I've corrected you on them and you're still going on and on about it.  Yeah, I'm the arrogant one.

6 hours ago, Jammersix said:

Post less, patch more, make all parts of the game truly Mac like, and I"d be happy to pay a hundred or a hundred and fifty bucks a copy. I want to play Final Blitzkrieg with a friend, but he's got a moratorium going on buying your games until you fix whatever it is he wants fixed.

We just released a patch last week.  I'm not aware of any issue with it, or the versions before, that rise to the level of "game is unplayable".  If someone won't buy a game until it is absolutely perfect in his eyes, then he's going to have a very long wait.  No game is perfect, period.

6 hours ago, Jammersix said:

We have the money, and the money means nothing to us. We'll pay the price you need if you deliver the product we want.

The product you want is already in your hands.  If it wasn't, why would you still be posting here after all these years of such horrible and terrible service?  We build games that are both leaders in the field and financially sustainable year over year.  It takes a special kind of stupid to suggest we should put that at risk so a handful of Mac customers can have a few OS specific bling features.

Steve

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, sburke said:

This is far too adult a post. Sorry you need a decent rant somewhere in there :D. As to bugs absolutely you can post. It can only help, BF has no fear of bug reports, it is after all software.  As to how it gets treated and analyzed would remain to be seen based on the nature of the bug, but is totally acceptable, expected and desired to be reported on the forum. 

Ha, noted for next time.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, armchairGman said:

Umm, I'm new around here and only recently discovered this wonderful series.  Instead of pissing the guys off that build these products maybe we should be a little more diplomatic about any frustrations we as consumers have.  While we do pay real money for the games/simulations,  I've been very impressed with the overall quality of what we get with those dollars/euros etc.  I'm running into a bug myself but it doesn't need brought up on this forum.  I work in marketing and it's been my experience that being a big firm typically just means you're capable of making a bigger FUBAR (think SimCity5).

Having once worked for a billion dollar publisher back when that was a rarity, I can say first hand that you definitely have a much better sense of how the world works than Jammersix does.  CM customers get more play per Dollar spent than the vast majority of games out there. 

23 minutes ago, armchairGman said:

On top of that, my guess is most of us use these games as hobbies/relaxation.  I doubt hiring a PR consultant would be very beneficial  (we're over paid:D).  I would have a hard time justifying spending 100 bucks on a video game (or more precisely justifying to my wife).  My first reaction is the best form of advertising for CM is word of mouth on other forums and posts of this niche market.

Yup.  We have people who say they would pay $100 and we also have people who say they shouldn't have to spend $10 for an Upgrade ("it's a patch and it should be free").  We are very sure that catering to either extreme is likely going to come as a net cost to us.  Though having said that, we will have to increase our pricing soon just to keep up with inflation. 

Based on a US CPI calculator, $55 in 1999 (when we started selling) is now about $79.70 in today's money.  We can definitely feel the pinch so we will raise our pricing at some point in the near future.  We'll probably ask customers to meet us halfway and pony up $65 for the base game and keep the pricing for everything else the same.

23 minutes ago, armchairGman said:

Just my un-asked for 2cents.

By far the vast majority of our customers are exactly like you.  Which is why we stay in this business :D  Because if more than just a handful of people were like Jammersix we'd exit this market and do something else which more profitable.  Thankfully for everybody, including Jammersix, we are sticking with wargaming.

Steve

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Battlefront.com said:

Having once worked for a billion dollar publisher back when that was a rarity, I can say first hand that you definitely have a much better sense of how the world works than Jammersix does.  CM customers get more play per Dollar spent than the vast majority of games out there. 

Yup.  We have people who say they would pay $100 and we also have people who say they shouldn't have to spend $10 for an Upgrade ("it's a patch and it should be free").  We are very sure that catering to either extreme is likely going to come as a net cost to us.  Though having said that, we will have to increase our pricing soon just to keep up with inflation. 

Based on a US CPI calculator, $55 in 1999 (when we started selling) is now about $79.70 in today's money.  We can definitely feel the pinch so we will raise our pricing at some point in the near future.  We'll probably ask customers to meet us halfway and pony up $65 for the base game and keep the pricing for everything else the same.

By far the vast majority of our customers are exactly like you.  Which is why we stay in this business :D  Because if more than just a handful of people were like Jammersix we'd exit this market and do something else which more profitable.  Thankfully for everybody, including Jammersix, we are sticking with wargaming.

Steve

No worries, I'll tell the spouse you started at $80 and I hammered you down to $65:rolleyes:.  She'll go for it.

Ok signing off now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Battlefront.com said:

 

As with pretty much everything else you've said, you're wrong.  I was involved with Combat Mission since it was drawn on a cocktail napkin stained with Guinness.

 

And yet we still have people playing it nearly 10 years later.  And I've not heard much about it during that time.  So little, in fact, that I can't remember the specifics of it.

 

Steve

Steve my impression of you just went up by several points - there are few things as good in this life as a well poured Guinness - how does the saying go? "Guinness -built not poured".

As to Shock Force - despite it's age it is still my favorite and the first I reload when I rebuild my PC.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Jammersix said:

The Combat Mission series are absolutely, categorically, unmistakably a Windows game ported to the Mac by a team that thought Mac users wouldn't notice.

The first part of that is recognizably true. Game companies perforce must code for windows simply because the vast majority of gamers use that OS. To ignore that fact would likely amount to financial suicide in most cases. Most game companies stop there. In their estimation, the Mac market is just not big enough to justify the effort involved in bringing their product to the Mac. I think in many instances they are wrong, but it is not my call to make. BFC is nearly unique among game companies—especially game companies specializing in wargames—in its support of the Mac OS. I am sure that this has not been easy for a small company to do.

Michael

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Firstly BF, thanks for the patch. It is warmly welcomed. I'm esp looking forward to the V 4.0 engine update followed hopefully by a Nato forces module in 2017.

 I do note however with this patch that there are some UI weapon icons that you have missed. I hope you are able therefore to take note of the following:-

1) AT6 -ATGM stock icon is missing.

 

2) SA-13 SAM missile stock icon is missing.

 

3) The Russian weapon version, AK 47U should use the file aks-47u-black green.bmp but instead is coded to apply the Ukrainian variant file which renders the wrong weapon icon. It would be great if BF distinguish the icon by linking the right file in their code.

 

4) Similar problem with the PKM icon file (there isn’t a Russian icon version, even though the textures are distinguished). 

 

In the two latter cases, I understand that with the stock icons presently used, drawing a distinction between the types is not strictly necessary and by using a generic stock image for both forces, this saves (marginally) on memory. Regardless, I hope you can address the matter, if only for the benefit of players using modded colour icons.

 

Edited by The Steppenwulf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Michael Emrys said:

The first part of that is recognizably true. Game companies perforce must code for windows simply because the vast majority of gamers use that OS. To ignore that fact would likely amount to financial suicide in most cases. Most game companies stop there. In their estimation, the Mac market is just not big enough to justify the effort involved in bringing their product to the Mac. I think in many instances they are wrong, but it is not my call to make. BFC is nearly unique among game companies—especially game companies specializing in wargames—in its support of the Mac OS. I am sure that this has not been easy for a small company to do.

Michael

I completely agree. As one of those guys who pestered them (politely) about the 36% fix I thought they stepped up to fix something that was clearly Apples fault  I have also found them to be just as supportive of us Mac guys as they have the PC players. 

And I totally agree with @sburke that CMSF is still an awesome game and one I play as much as any other title. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Jammersix said:

That's one of my points: this game could go for a hundred or more...

We have the money, and the money means nothing to us. We'll pay the price you need if you deliver the product we want.

Maybe you and some few others might. I know that my money has been tight for the last year and I expect that to last another two years at least. In order to pay $100 for a game, I would have to think very long and hard about what else I would have to give up. I am already putting some needed purchases on indefinite hold. Hundred dollar games would likely be the first thing to get tossed overboard. And I strongly suspect that I am not the only one.

9 hours ago, Jammersix said:

...I remember system 7...

Yeah, you've been making this claim, which I find strange and I will tell you why. I bought my first Mac in 1992 and it came with—guess what?—System 7.1 pre-installed. Along the way I upgraded to 7.4 and 7.6 before making the jump to System 8 in 1997. All this was well before CM was released.

Michael

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Michael Emrys said:

Maybe you and some few others might. I know that my money has been tight for the last year and I expect that to last another two years at least. In order to pay $100 for a game, I would have to think very long and hard about what else I would have to give up. I am already putting some needed purchases on indefinite hold. Hundred dollar games would likely be the first thing to get tossed overboard. And I strongly suspect that I am not the only one.

Yeah, you've been making this claim, which I find strange and I will tell you why. I bought my first Mac in 1992 and it came with—guess what?—System 7.1 pre-installed. Along the way I upgraded to 7.4 and 7.6 before making the jump to System 8 in 1997. All this was well before CM was released.

Michael

Correct.  Besides having a Mac at home, I was doing Mac porting for Impressions in 1997 timeframe before Combat Mission was more than a prototype (might not even been that).  So for sure CMBO was developed for MacOS 8, though IIRC it did run on MacOS 7.  Of course we don't have to dig into old membories since info is also up on the Internets :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_8

Steve

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...