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German band of brothers movie?

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On 9/25/2016 at 10:25 AM, Aragorn2002 said:

Nothing suspicious about this movie, just very moving and well made.

Sure, as long as we remember that it's not a documentary. The instructor openly admits tweaking the real story heavily to portray the Danes as the bad guys "to evoke an emotional response". For example, the commander of the mine clearing unit is shown to be a Dane, where in real life he was actually a German.

The commander is even shown pissing on the mine clearers, which is not based on any documented event.

The mine clearers are portrayed as innocent children with no knowledge of demining, where in real life, they were a mix of ages, most around 20 years of age, with many experienced combat engineers, who knew how their mines worked, and how to defuse them.

They were not kept as slaves and driven into the minefield to die as shown in the movie, but were offered the dangerous work in exchange of salary, food and accomodation, rather than walk back to a devastated Germany.

Etc. So while it doesn't glorify nazism, it still distorts history. Just someting to keep in mind while watching.

 

Sources:

http://politiken.dk/kultur/ECE2949335/historiker-roser-under-sandet-selv-om-der-skrues-liiige-lovligt-meget-paa-drama-knappen/

http://www.kristeligt-dagblad.dk/danmark/eksperter-film-og-tv-forplumrer-historieformidlingen

 

Edited by Bulletpoint

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Bulletpoint. Yes, that is indeed something to keep in mind while watching. Strange how such sensational details have to be added nowadays to attract our attention to a movie. Good to know. Thanks for pointing that out.

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2 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said:

Bulletpoint. Yes, that is indeed something to keep in mind while watching. Strange how such sensational details have to be added nowadays to attract our attention to a movie. Good to know. Thanks for pointing that out.

Recently there have been several Danish historical movies and TV series, and they have been discussed heavily here because of their deliberately distorted version of history.

There seems to be this strange innate cultural self-hate in Denmark, and it's a real shame when it spills over into movies. I'm all for movies about Danish misdeeds, but let's stick to history in historical movies. Real history is plenty interesting in itself, I think. 

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12 minutes ago, Bulletpoint said:

Recently there have been several Danish historical movies and TV series, and they have been discussed heavily here because of their deliberately distorted version of history.

There seems to be this strange innate cultural self-hate in Denmark, and it's a real shame when it spills over into movies. I'm all for movies about Danish misdeeds, but let's stick to history in historical movies. Real history is plenty interesting in itself, I think. 

I've watched the series about the Danish-Prussian war some time ago. Although it had good moments, there was also pretty some self-hate in it. I'm also puzzled about the self-hatred which seems to be a constant element of European historical series and movies nowadays. Same usually happens with series or movies about the dutch past in the Netherlands Indies and such, so unfortunately it isn't restricted to Denmark. Patriotism is out of fashion nowadays....

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31 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said:

I've watched the series about the Danish-Prussian war some time ago. Although it had good moments, there was also pretty some self-hate in it.

The series (called 1864) was produced by Danish State Television and received a special public grant of 100 million kroner (13.4 million euro) for the production. It portrayed the Danish leader as being an irrational, bigoted war-monger, whereas in real life he actually preferred a peaceful solution based on sharing the contested area.

After the series had been produced and shown on Danish national TV in prime time, the leader of the TV station's drama department freely admitted that he had used his considerable influence to commission and mold the series into an attack on a particular modern-day political party that he didn't like. So, in effect, what had been commissioned as an educational drama ended up being tax-paid political propaganda.

Sources:

http://politiken.dk/kultur/filmogtv/ECE3047211/gabold-1864-var-et-slag-mod-df/

http://videnskab.dk/kultur-samfund/1864-monrad-var-ikke-sa-gal-som-vi-tror

Edited by Bulletpoint

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46 minutes ago, Bulletpoint said:

The series (called 1864) was produced by Danish State Television and received a special public grant of 100 million kroner (13.4 million euro) for the production. It portrayed the Danish leader as being an irrational, bigoted war-monger, whereas in real life he actually preferred a peaceful solution based on sharing the contested area.

After the series had been produced and shown on Danish national TV in prime time, the leader of the TV station's drama department freely admitted that he had used his considerable influence to commission and mold the series into an attack on a particular modern-day political party that he didn't like. So, in effect, what had been commissioned as an educational drama ended up being tax-paid political propaganda.

Sources:

http://politiken.dk/kultur/filmogtv/ECE3047211/gabold-1864-var-et-slag-mod-df/

http://videnskab.dk/kultur-samfund/1864-monrad-var-ikke-sa-gal-som-vi-tror

Unbelievable what damage all these left-wing bastards cause to our societies and selfrespect.

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Just now, Aragorn2002 said:

Unbelievable what damage all these left-wing bastards cause to our societies and selfrespect.

Actually I'm left-wing too :) 

I'm just not a bastard (I think), and I don't want to be fed bull****, no matter where in the political spectrum it comes from.

Anyway, this thread is turning political, so let's call it a day here ...

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Just now, Bulletpoint said:

Actually I'm left-wing too :) 

I'm just not a bastard (I think), and I don't want to be fed bull****, no matter where in the political spectrum it comes from.

Anyway, this thread is turning political, so let's call it a day here ...

No, you're definitely not, Bulletpoint. Didn't mean to offend. Sorry. :)

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4 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said:

No, you're definitely not, Bulletpoint. Didn't mean to offend. Sorry. :)

No offense taken. Was just making that disclaimer in case anyone wondered if I had a political agenda for posting these things about Danish movies and series. I don't. I just thought people should know.

Edited by Bulletpoint

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6 minutes ago, Bulletpoint said:

No offense taken. Was just making that disclaimer in case anyone wondered if I had a political agenda for posting these things about Danish movies and series. I don't. I just thought people should know.

Well, right wing or left wing. A lie is a lie. I trully don't understand how people can prefer distorting the truth over telling the story like it was. And get away with it.

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7 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said:

Well, right wing or left wing. A lie is a lie. I trully don't understand how people can prefer distorting the truth over telling the story like it was. And get away with it.

I don't really know either, but I suppose they may be either changing the story to sell more movie tickets (with the fig leaf of "inspired by real events" in small letters at the end of the credits when everyone is asleep or has left the cinema), or they might do it for some higher cause to make others agree with their political views. They might simply believe 'the end justifies the means'.

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I have learned to never underestimate the human capacity for self-delusion.  Modern propaganda has evolved much since WW1; not just governments can play anymore.  "The medium is the message" began long before and continues long after the phrase was coined by  Marshall McLuhan.  It seems "truth" is often inconvenient . . .   :ph34r:   (With apologies to the Thread owner for derailing his discussion).

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For a look at how the Russians really operated when it came to Lend-Lease, please see Major Jordan's Diaries. Major Jordan was the direct US interface for the Army Air Corps with the Russians on Lend-Lease, and he meticulously detailed what the Russians, headed by aviator extraordinaire Colonel Anatoli Kotikov were up to, including wholesale industrial espionage of manufacturing plants (complete plans of one GE factory, for example) whose technology wasn't being exported and the relentless acquisition of nuclear related supplies. And when he tried to stop the Russians from shipping their ill got gains home via Lend-Lease aircraft what happened? Harry Hopkins overruled him! In fact, Harry Hopkins intervened repeatedly on behalf of the Russians.

Regards,

John Kettler

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4 hours ago, John Kettler said:

For a look at how the Russians really operated when it came to Lend-Lease, please see Major Jordan's Diaries. Major Jordan was the direct US interface for the Army Air Corps with the Russians on Lend-Lease, and he meticulously detailed what the Russians, headed by aviator extraordinaire Colonel Anatoli Kotikov were up to, including wholesale industrial espionage of manufacturing plants (complete plans of one GE factory, for example) whose technology wasn't being exported and the relentless acquisition of nuclear related supplies. And when he tried to stop the Russians from shipping their ill got gains home via Lend-Lease aircraft what happened? Harry Hopkins overruled him! In fact, Harry Hopkins intervened repeatedly on behalf of the Russians.

Regards,

John Kettler

That is also mentioned in detail in the book, John. Same story from many different sources.

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Aragorn2002,

This is what happens when I've read only the first of four pages in a thread! The books look most interesting, but I believe it's essential that you also read Stinnett's Day of Deceit, which tears a whole series of Pearl Harbor AKA whoppers to shreds. From what I can see, there were multiple forces at work, each striving to slide, drag or force the US into the war. Why not? worked fine in the Great War! Additionally, the CFR's own internal documents clearly show the US wasn't fighting the war for the customary reasons given; that it was really about control of international trade markets after the war and that the US deliberately sat out the war until its rivals were spent before coming in. FDR hid the true goals with the famous "Four Freedoms" speech. The CFR docs show the group was terrified the Germans would find out and make huge propaganda hay, not to mention putting a crimp in getting foreign nationals to fight and die for the enrichment of American interests!  PM me for this scholarly book's link if interested.

Regards,

John Kettler

Edited by John Kettler

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On ‎9‎/‎26‎/‎2016 at 0:38 PM, Aragorn2002 said:
On ‎9‎/‎26‎/‎2016 at 0:22 PM, Aragorn2002 said:

Unbelievable what damage all these left-wing bastards cause to our societies and selfrespect.

 

How did this get by the moderators?  what a bunch of BS!

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6 hours ago, John Kettler said:

Aragorn2002,

This is what happens when I've read only the first of four pages in a thread! The books look most interesting, but I believe it's essential that you also read Stinnett's Day of Deceit, which tears a whole series of Pearl Harbor AKA whoppers to shreds. From what I can see, there were multiple forces at work, each striving to slide, drag or force the US into the war. Why not? worked fine in the Great War! Additionally, the CFR's own internal documents clearly show the US wasn't fighting the war for the customary reasons given; that it was really about control of international trade markets after the war and that the US deliberately sat out the war until its rivals were spent before coming in. FDR hid the true goals with the famous "Four Freedoms" speech. The CFR docs show the group was terrified the Germans would find out and make huge propaganda hay, not to mention putting a crimp in getting foreign nationals to fight and die for the enrichment of American interests!  PM me for this scholarly book's link if interested.

Regards,

John Kettler

Thanks, John, I've ordered the book just now.

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17 minutes ago, akd said:

Conspiracy Theory Train has left the station.  I wonder where we will end this time?

Nearer the truth hopefully. But it ain't necessarily conspiracy, it is historical research by good historians.

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1 hour ago, Aragorn2002 said:

Nearer the truth hopefully. But it ain't necessarily conspiracy, it is historical research by good historians.

No, this train originates at History Station and terminates somewhere far from History.  Lizard People Station is a good bet.

Re: Day of Deceit, this excerpt from the Journal of American History review provides a good starting point:

doenecke_excerpt.jpg

Doenecke, Justus D. The Journal of American History 89, no. 1 (2002): 281-82.

Edited by akd

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18 minutes ago, akd said:

No, this train originates at History Station and terminates somewhere far from History.  Lizard People Station is a good bet.

Re: Day of Deceit, this excerpt from the Journal of American History review provides a good starting point:

doenecke_excerpt.jpg

Doenecke, Justus D. The Journal of American History 89, no. 1 (2002): 281-82.

Well, I don't know about this book, because I haven't read it yet. But in 'Stalin's secret agents, the subversion of Roosevelt's government' it is mentioned that indications of the coming attack came from several directions, including from dutch intelligence in the Netherlands Indies.

 

 

'

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On 9/26/2016 at 10:00 AM, Bulletpoint said:

Recently there have been several Danish historical movies and TV series, and they have been discussed heavily here because of their deliberately distorted version of history.

There seems to be this strange innate cultural self-hate in Denmark, and it's a real shame when it spills over into movies. I'm all for movies about Danish misdeeds, but let's stick to history in historical movies. Real history is plenty interesting in itself, I think. 

Bulletpoint,

This is a cross post from the GDF regarding 9.APRIL. I thought it was a great war pic.

Regards,

John Kettler

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59 minutes ago, John Kettler said:

Bulletpoint,

This is a cross post from the GDF regarding 9.APRIL. I thought it was a great war pic.

I haven't watched the movie, but from what I read, it sticks pretty close to what actually happened on April 9 when the Germans attacked. Two historians are quoted as saying the movie is very realistic regarding the equipment, and many specific scenes are based directly on eye witness accounts. One of them adds that it's in a whole other league than "1864", as it's not politicised in the same way. 

However, the instructor apparently condenses the actions of a couple different Danish units into one for cinematic effect.

Edited by Bulletpoint

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