Sniper Lethality

[Jammersix]

So I've been messing around with snipers. What I've found is that when snipers with M107s get a good position at long range, they are able to put out rounds.

What I'm wondering about is why they don't actually hit anything. I just had a sniper team in a computer game put out more than 70 rounds of .50 cal ammo to get 21 kills.

Okay, they're not all gods. But three to one?

[sburke]

I think maybe this guy is related to your sniper

 

 

[John Kettler]

Jammersix,

While I haven't sniped personnel with one, I can assure you they work just fine on light armor! In videos of tests, I've seen trained snipers hit a man size target at almost 2 km. On The History Channel's "Top Shot" shooting competition, if memory serves, I saw untrained on the M107 experienced shooters get hits, though not first round, at almost 1000 meters. In Vietnam, Carlos Hathcock, using, not a proper sniper rifle, but a scoped Ma Deuce on a tripod, also got kills at nearly 2 km. I don't know what your soft factors are or the engagement range, but the performance seems pretty bad for a premier sniper rifle. I never buy snipers of less than Veteran, and I try as much as possible to have them under a good commander. What sorts of personnel targets were you shooting at? How exposed were they? What sort of cover did they have? Look forward to your reply.

Regards,

John Kettler

Edited August 18, 2016 by John Kettler

[Jammersix]

No idea, John.

It was a Red infantry force, my sniper took more than 70 shots, no vehicles on the board, so I assume he took all his shots at people, and got 21 kills. All natural cover, (meaning not urban cover) range of less than a kilometer.

Sniper was elite, led by a +2 leader.

Edited August 18, 2016 by Jammersix

[Jammersix]

For all you rigorous test guys, here's your challenge: establish a baseline of kill percentage against enemy personnel with an M107 at 500 meters in cover other than urban.

[John Kettler]

Jammersix,

Unless these guys were under fire, accidentally or on purpose, that seems pretty pathetic to me, especially given the quality of your snipers and their officer. I think real snipers would die of embarrassment. Hardly squares with the "one shot, one skill" sniper ethos.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Haiduk]

I have the same situation - UKR sniper pair (veterans) w/o suppression made 8 shots in moving half-squad of Russian infantry in wheatfield from about 200 m. Result- one killed, rest misses. Of course, SVD w/o support doesn't have to give 100 % result, but so short distance and 1 hit from 8 shots its... strange. 

Edited August 18, 2016 by Haiduk

[John Kettler]

Jammersix,

Were the targets static or moving.

Haiduk,

While moving (how fast?) is more stressing, 200 meter shots ought to be considerably more effective than what you report. Am surprised that at such close range your guys weren't spotted quickly and shot at.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Ghost of Charlemagne]

Well, the M107 is actually not a sniper rifle, it is an anti-material rifle.

Also its semi-automatic action means that it is quite a bit less accurate than a dedicated bolt-action sniper rifle.  

This might explain the lack of accuracy, even for an Elite team. 

Edited August 18, 2016 by AtheistDane

[Haiduk]

2 hours ago, John Kettler said:

Haiduk,

While moving (how fast?) is more stressing, 200 meter shots ought to be considerably more effective than what you report. Am surprised that at such close range your guys weren't spotted quickly and shot at.

Regards,

John Kettler

Em... Possibly I have wrote something wrong... My snipers not moved, they were on position in the bushes behind low stone wall and detected "infantry squad", which walked in wheat. If @kinophile saved this turn, let post video or tell about this from own point of view )

Edited August 18, 2016 by Haiduk

[Kinophile]

Ohhhh long ago deleted. This was up on the hill? 200m sounds right,  but the squad was split up and moving slowly, if I remember correctly. 

Edited August 18, 2016 by kinophile

[John Kettler]

AtheistDane,

While I concur it's designated as an AMR, rest assured it's not only fully capable sniper but that it and the earlier Barrett blot action were most definitely used as sniper weapons and still are. I believe AMR is both partially function descriptive but also a way of avoiding the political flak associated with the commonly held--and wrong--belief that shooting people deliberately with such weapons is prohibited under the Geneva Convention.

According to a now unfortunately dead ex-SEAL dear friend of mine whose SEAL career dated back to Vietnam and was in Panama during Operation Just Cause, SEALs there were taking fire from across a water feature of some considerable extent by a bunch of AK-47 armed PDF. They imagined they were immune from what they thought were CAR 15 equipped SEALs unable to retaliate. The jeering ended when a .50 round nailed one of the celebrants. The PDF guys fled when the SEAL sniper abruptly stood up from prone, with his monster of a weapon held high. That was when they realized just how outclassed they were. In truth, the M107 is a sniper rifle of extraordinary range and hitting power which also happens to be good at killing things which are not people. Shortly before he died, this gentleman, who was still well plugged into SEAL matters,  told me a SEAL sniper had recently gotten an unprecedented twofer in Afghanistan at, I believe, 2600 meters for the primary hit. First round. Cold bore. With favorable terrain geometry, the sniper put the shot into the soft part (don't want to deflect the bullet on bone) of the first guy (standing), a shot which went through him and hit the guy 30 meters behind him (sitting). This completely outclassed the famous Corporal Harrison (not armed with a .50 AMR), who missed his first two shots, I believe, before scoring at 2457 meter range. The SEAL shot was done old school, not with a CheyTac Intervention or anything like that. But if you think what the SEAL did was impressive, in the comments to the Guinness listing for Longest Confirmed Sniper Shot, we learn the Australians, armed with BA Barrett M82A1s and configured as two shooters, fired simultaneous shots and marked down a Taliban commander at an awe-inspiring 2816 meters!  Clearly, the M82A1 and the M107 are being used as sniper rifles.

Regards,

John Kettler

 

Edited August 18, 2016 by John Kettler

[John Kettler]

Haiduk,

I never said anything about your snipers, whom I automatically presumed to be static.  The movement I was discussing was target movement. Thought I was clear on this in what I said. Regret any confusion. The problem may very well lie with the wheat, since it blocks LOS, I believe, to most of the man engaged. This considerably reduces the chance of any hit, since only a small percentage of the total presented area of the target is exposed.

Regards,

John Kettler

 

 

 

[Jammersix]

Okay, I'm running a small infantry scenario, and I've replaced the M107s with .338 Lapuas. So far, the snipers appear to be hitting infantry at a much higher rate.