Setup Problem

[Jammersix]

1 hour ago, Combatintman said:

Yep - I need to see what the setup order is in plan 2 - your image shows the plan 1 setup.  Otherwise what Kevinkin says is correct - they will appear either where you set them up or where the computer places them for about a nano second before reappearing where the setup order puts them.

You should also note that in your first screenie you have a potential issue in that you have a variable arrival time of 5 minutes meaning that the unit could arrive at any time between 5 and 15 minutes while in your second screenie you have your  movement order stating that movement will occur between 1000 and 1030.  There is a danger that this movement order won't execute if your unit arrives at 11 minutes or after, which given the variable arrival time is an entirely possible outcome.

I stopped looking past the entry when I realized that they weren't coming in anywhere near the plan. I figured I'd get them to come in at the right place before I worried about what they do then. 

Plans 2,3,4 and 5 are off for testing by using the "Not Used" order. I've been concentrating on one thing at a time: getting this company to come in at the right place. 

[Combatintman]

Ok - all good.  First up get rid of the variable arrival time in the reinforcement screen because at least that will eliminate one problem.  It is good that your plan 2 is set as 'not used' for testing.  So once you've got rid of he variable arrival time fire it up again in scenario author test mode and see how it goes.  Remember not to rage quit the moment that the unit arrives - it will probably teleport in at the location shown in your third screenshot - give it a few seconds and it will then magically 'teleport' to where you have your setup order in Plan 1.  If this happens, the setup is good.  Then set Plan 1 to 'not used' and Plan 2 to 'Used Frequently' and again fire it up in Scenario Author Test mode.  Again it should perform as described (i.e. arrive in the area shown in screenshot 3 momentarily and then 'teleport' to the setup order zone seconds later).

If all of the above happens - the AI setup is good.

[Jammersix]

Nope, I eliminated the variable time, set the entrance to five minutes after scenario start, (just so I could test it faster) and ran it in Scenario Author mode. I ran it for ten minutes past where the reinforcements came in, they came in at the wrong place, and never moved.

[Combatintman]

The only thing that I can think of now then is to get rid of your huge red painted setup zone in the map editor and see if it works then.  Clearly this creates a problem if you intend a human to play this scenario because they have no choices to make in setup but it may be (although I don't think it is) a variable that is causing a problem. Other than that, I am out of solutions.  I know it isn't helpful but the advice I've given works for me every time so I don't know what is causing the problem.  I have asked some of the Beta guys who have CMBS to chime in here - so hopefully someone else will pitch in - or more helpfully knock up a small .btt file in CMBS that will demonstrate how it works like I tried to with my CMRT file.

Otherwise if you get no joy - create a small map and run tests on AI arrival until you can get it to work.  Once you've got a solution, return to your scenario and implement it there.  I'm sorry I can't help you further and couldn't get your plan to work.

[Jammersix]

Thanks for trying. 

[Combatintman]

1 minute ago, Jammersix said:

Thanks for trying. 

No worries - I like to give as much help as I can to the few who make the leap into scenario design because the more scenarios the better.  I wish you luck with your endeavours - all the best mate.

[kevinkin]

Guys. The reinforcements enter at the location they are placed on the map in the editor. They ignore any AI set-up zone you try to assign to them unless it's right under them when they arrive. You actually do not need a set-up zone and your reinforcements will move directly to Order Two. You can have them land on a set-up zone and program them to wait there and then move off to Order Two. There is little use for set-up zones for reinforcements since most times you want the reinforcements to get going anyway.

 

[Jammersix]

Well, that certainly mirrors my experience. No matter what the setup orders say, all reinforcements come in where they were placed on the map in the editor.

It does make me wonder what the setup orders are for, though.

Edited June 18, 2016 by Jammersix

[Jammersix]

Okay, contradicting information. Here is a setup on a different map. The Tac Group HQ is split into two groups, one is set up by hand, outside the AI's setup order, on the third floor of the Command Center:

And running the scenario in Scenario Author's mode, the Tac Group HQ is still split into two groups, but it is set up in the AI group's setup zone:

I am well and truly out of theories and explanations. This can't be how it was designed to work.

[Kinophile]

Upload the file and let's have all have an  attempt at it. 

Nothing a good ol' fashioned circle-jerk can't fix. 

[kevinkin]

1 hour ago, Jammersix said:

Well, that certainly mirrors my experience. No matter what the setup orders say, all reinforcements come in where they were placed on the map in the editor.

It does make me wonder what the setup orders are for, though.

That's the way it's been. There is no way around it currently. Set-up zones are mostly for on map forces unless you land the reinforcements directly on one. It's hard for me to decipher the screen shot except to ask if you think that yellow circle is a set-up zone. It's an ambush arc. Also, are all the A1 units winding up in the A1 set-up zone? They should not remain where they were placed on the map in the editor since they are not reinforcements which enter where you place them. Non reinforcements move to their set up zone wherever it is on the map. 

PS: I don't have BS but use the editor all the time.

Edited June 18, 2016 by kevinkin

[Jammersix]

18 hours ago, kinophile said:

Upload the file and let's have all have an  attempt at it. 

Nothing a good ol' fashioned circle-jerk can't fix. 

Okay, here you go.

Scenario Design.btt

[Battlefront.com]

Just chiming in... by design the behaviors for initial forces and reinforcements are different.  Setup Zones are used by both Human and AI players only for the Setup Phase of the game.  Reinforcements come in at the exact spot they are placed in the Editor.  There is no variability with Reinforcement placement.

At least that's the way I remember it being and that does seem to jibe with what's been discovered by you guys so far.

Steve

 

[Jammersix]

Oh, damn.

Okay, then the only way to make an enemy reinforcement appear to attack you from an unknown direction is to put five copies out there, and give them variable entry times that are three or four times longer than the scenario, so that on average, only one or two will show up, from a direction and with a plan that can't be predicted. Oh, and there's a thin chance that no one will show up, and there's an equally thin chance that they'll all show up, and you'll get your pecker stomped shut.

[Battlefront.com]

That's a clever way to approach it!  Yes, I think that should work. 

When we designed the behaviors we didn't think someone would want to vary the reinforcements like this.  I'm sure someone's come up with a question or two about that in these many years, but it does seem that it's not a usual thing to go for.  Which is the tough thing about making AI like this... we WANT to support even the one in a thousand ideas because that's what keeps things interesting.  Coding for such things, though, is the tricky part.  Best we can hope to do is give you guys enough so that you can cobble together concepts not explicitly supported well enough that they are viable.

Steve

[Jammersix]

I just looked, and 45 minutes is the longest I can vary entry time.

So I guess if I had a request, it would be to give me a lot more time for variation.