Setup Problem

[Jammersix]

Okay, I have a question about making a scenario.

If I want the AI to come in in different places, how do I do that?

That is, assume I've assigned a tank company to the AI as Reinforcement Group One for the red. How can I make this tank company come from different directions?

[Combatintman]

What do you mean by different directions?

Is it different parts of the Company entering from different points of the map eg 1 Platoon enters from the North, 2 Platoon enters from the East and 3 Platoon enters from the South. In this instance you could do it a couple of ways ...

Assign 1 Platoon as AI Group 1, 2 Platoon as AI Group 2 and 3 Platoon a AI Group 3.  Place them at their entry points when you 'Deploy Units' and then write paint their moves to get them from where they are to where you want them to go.

Or have the Company as a single group (eg Group 1) - deploy them as above and then paint moves to their end point.

Method one will produce more consistent results and is the recommended way to achieve this because Method 2 will provide highly erratic results and plotting intermediate orders will be painful.

If however you mean that you want the Company to arrive from different directions to increase variety/replayability then you need to generate separate plans as follows ...

Say you want it to arrive from the North in Plan 1 ... all you do is paint a setup order on the North end of the map for the assigned group (we'll call it Group 1 for the sake of simplicity). You then paint zones for the various orders you want to give the Company to get it from there to where you want it to go.

If you want it to arrive from the East in Plan 2 ... all you do is paint a setup order on the East end of the map for the assigned group (we'll call it Group 1 for the sake of simplicity). You then paint zones for the various orders you want to give the Company to get it from there to where you want it to go.

If you want it to arrive from the South in Plan 3 ... all you do is paint a setup order on the South end of the map for the assigned group (we'll call it Group 1 for the sake of simplicity). You then paint zones for the various orders you want to give the Company to get it from there to where you want it to go.

Simples and remember:

a.  The manual explains some of the simpler editor concepts reasonably well.

b.  The Sherriff of Oosterbeek tutorial by JonS thread is a goldmine of information on scenario design. It can be found here ...

http://community.battlefront.com/topic/109190-the-sheriff-of-oosterbeek-–-a-scenario-design-daraar/

c.  You can always open up other scenarios in the editor to see how other designers solve problems.

d.  Trial and error through tinkering in the editor is a very useful activity.

[Jammersix]

On 6/7/2016 at 4:07 AM, Combatintman said:

Say you want it to arrive from the North in Plan 1 ... all you do is paint a setup order on the North end of the map for the assigned group (we'll call it Group 1 for the sake of simplicity). You then paint zones for the various orders you want to give the Company to get it from there to where you want it to go.

This does not appear to be true.

I've made different set up zones, and placed the unit in one of them. The unit never comes in anywhere but where I placed them.

[Kinophile]

Oh I see. 

Give the tanks a group,  then in the AI section PAINT their setup zones in the various places. One trick is to paint single boxes,  so that only one tank can fit in each. This can help you limit how many choose that setup area. Give enough scattered single boxes and you might get a fairly random placing. 

Might. Maybe. Possibly. 

Check and let us know :-)

[Combatintman]

9 hours ago, Jammersix said:

This does not appear to be true.

I've made different set up zones, and placed the unit in one of them. The unit never comes in anywhere but where I placed them.

In the generate separate plans advice part of my post I didn't tell you to place units or use setup zones (I talked about setup orders - there is a difference).  That is why it isn't working.  See below ....

Entry from the North ... (Plan 1)

Entry from the West ... (Plan 2)

So whenever the computer selects Plan 1 - your Group 2 will enter from the North - whenever it selects Plan 2 your Group 2 will enter from the West.

[Jammersix]

Sounds like the mistake I made was to deploy the unit manually.

I'll delete the unit, replace it, and do exactly what you say. Thank you!

[Jammersix]

Nope, the reinforcements always come in where their icons are on the setup map, not in the setup zones.

[Combatintman]

5 hours ago, Jammersix said:

Nope, the reinforcements always come in where their icons are on the setup map, not in the setup zones.

You must be doing something wrong then if you have CMRT download the attached into your CMRT scenarios folder, fire it up by selecting 'Battle' and load up the scenario.  Play as Red Army in basic training mode and don't move anything or give anybody any orders.  After a couple of seconds you will see some Germans appear from either the left or the top of the map - let's say they arrive from the top on your first play.  Quit and then start again (you may have to do this a few times) until you see them arrive from the left which they will eventually. I would have done this in CMBS but I don't have it so I can't give you a CMBS file to try out.

Then look at the AI orders which are those shown in the graphics in my previous post (Group 2 Axis Plan 1 and Group 2 Axis Plan 2) to see how I've done it and look at the unit selection screen to see the group assignments.

If you play in 'Scenario Author' mode you will actually see the unit 'fly' into the bottom LH corner of the map and then disappear to the indicated setup zone.  Do not worry about this because if the player could see it - it would have been picked up in Basic Training mode.

Believe me - it works as I've described.

 

 

 

 

Zone Thing.btt

[Jammersix]

I don't have CMRT. I only have Black Sea.

In your demo, if you look at the "deploy" map, where are the reinforcements?

In my scenario, the reinforcements always come in where they are on the "deploy Red" map, regardless of the AI plans. I've turned all the AI plans off, then turned them back on one by one, no effect.

In my post above, I used the term "setup zone" where you would have used "painted setup order". My reinforcements (Reinforcement Group 1, AI Group 2) always enter at the correct time, (the time for Reinforcement Group 1) but never in the correct place. They show in the Unit Display as 1st Tank Company (R1 A2).

[Kinophile]

Just to clarify, are your setup order zones within a red painted map setup zone? 

AI will not break rules and setup outside a painted map zone. 

Can you provide some screen shots? 

 

[Jammersix]

No, they're not! Not even close!

Off to try that!

(If that doesn't do it, yes, I'll figure out how to provide screen shots.)

[Jammersix]

Nope, didn't work.

Screenshots.

First, the Red Purchase screen. Note that the Third Company, (Tank) is assigned to Reinforcement Group 1, A,I. Group 2. The time it enters is controlled by Reinforcement Group 1, and this works correctly. It's A.I. orders should be controlled by A.I. Group 2. This does not work.

 

Purchase.tiff

[Jammersix]

Next, the reinforcements screen.

 

Edited June 16, 2016 by Jammersix
I haven't got enough room to upload. I have to change formats, I think.

[Jammersix]

Okay, let's try this:

The Red Purchase screen. Note that Third Tank Co. is assigned to Reinforcement Group 1, and A.I. Group 2.

Edited June 16, 2016 by Jammersix

[Jammersix]

That's better.

Okay, the reinforcement screen. Third Tank Co. is assigned to Reinforcement Group 1.

Group Two Setup Order:

And the Red Deploy screen. This is where the tanks always, always enter:

[Jammersix]

Other than that, for troubleshooting purposes, rather than me guessing at where you guys want to look, if you tell me (or show me with a screenshot) exactly what screen and what data you need to see, I'll go get it. Now that I have it figured out how to display stuff here.

[Kinophile]

Silly question,  just to check - in the editor,  in DEPLOY, you do physically place the units within the desired setup zone, correct? 

I think technically you don't need to, that the AI is supposed to note the AI-SZ and automatically place within (so long as the AI-SZ is within a coloured  Map Setup Zone). But It would do no harm. 

Also,  is it that they enter and just sit there? 

That would suggest that their EXIT time for order 1 has expired. 

EG: 

Ai Group 2, Order 1

IN: 00:00

EXIT: 00:30

Reinforcement Group 1

ARRIVAL:  05:00

 

By this point the Order 1 has been expired for 4.5 mins,  so the tanks literally have no order. 

 

Got any screens of the groups AI orders? 

Setup &  Order 1. 

Edited June 16, 2016 by kinophile

[A Canadian Cat]

My impression is that reinforcements always arrive in their deployed location and the setup order is only used during the initial game setup.  I have not done extensive testing so I have been following this thread rather than contributing.  It sure looks like this is what @Jammersix is seeing though.

[Kinophile]

46 minutes ago, IanL said:

My impression is that reinforcements always arrive in their deployed location and the setup order is only used during the initial game setup.  I have not done extensive testing so I have been following this thread rather than contributing.  It sure looks like this is what @Jammersix is seeing though.

Interesting. 

The manual could sure do with an update that includes all this little notes! 

[Combatintman]

Screenshot 1 ... no issues

Screenshots 2 and 3 ... potentially issues but here is where I think the issue lies ...

'And the Red Deploy screen. This is where the tanks always, always enter: '

The only way you can work out where units will arrive in game is to play test the scenario. The 'Deploy Red/Blue' options will default unit setups to the designated 'friendly' portion of the map unless you physically place them somewhere else. Just to emphasise .... 'Deploy Red' Screen bears no relation to the Red AI plan setup.  'Deploy Blue' screen bears no relation to the Blue AI plan setup'

So what you need to do is to save your scenario in the 'scenarios' folder.  Then play test it as a battle in this instance Blue vs Red AI.

[Jammersix]

Yup. The play test is when the tanks always, always enter in the wrong place. Every time.

I only looked at the Red setup screen to see if that's where they were after I playtested it.

Edited June 17, 2016 by Jammersix

[Combatintman]

One question - do you intend this scenario to be played by a human being as the red player?  If not - get rid of the red setup zone (not setup order), it just makes life a lot less complicated..

Next - can you show us the settings you have for Red AI Plan 2.

[Jammersix]

The setup is in the picture above, group two setup order.

Do you want something else?

[kevinkin]

On 6/16/2016 at 9:56 AM, IanL said:

My impression is that reinforcements always arrive in their deployed location and the setup order is only used during the initial game setup.  I have not done extensive testing so I have been following this thread rather than contributing.  It sure looks like this is what @Jammersix is seeing though.

Ian is correct. Reinforcements have only one entry location within a given scenario. That is where on the map they are deployed in the editor. They disappear when the battle starts and then reappear on those exact locations when their time comes. When they reappear they are ready to accept AI plan orders. Be sure the AI plan timing and the overall scenario clock are in sync for what you want the reinforcements to do. Tip: I always found working off a very small test scenario useful when learning the in and outs of scenario design. If anything the scenario loads times are short while you trouble shoot things like this. PS: we would all like the variable entry you are trying to design. I tried it at first too. I believe it's on the BFC to do list. Where I don't know. 

Good luck, its fun.

Kevin 

 

Edited June 17, 2016 by kevinkin

[Combatintman]

7 hours ago, Jammersix said:

The setup is in the picture above, group two setup order.

Do you want something else?

Yep - I need to see what the setup order is in plan 2 - your image shows the plan 1 setup.  Otherwise what Kevinkin says is correct - they will appear either where you set them up or where the computer places them for about a nano second before reappearing where the setup order puts them.

You should also note that in your first screenie you have a potential issue in that you have a variable arrival time of 5 minutes meaning that the unit could arrive at any time between 5 and 15 minutes while in your second screenie you have your  movement order stating that movement will occur between 1000 and 1030.  There is a danger that this movement order won't execute if your unit arrives at 11 minutes or after, which given the variable arrival time is an entirely possible outcome.