What's next for the Eastern Front?

[Ivanov]

Are there any plans to release further CM Eastern Front titles? I'd love to see earlier war, with less top tier equipment: earlier versions of Panzers IV, III, II or Panzers 38 and on the Soviet side T-26, BT-7. Admittedly, overall  the Soviets performed quite poorly during that period but there are plenty of interesting engagements, that would look very interesting in the scale of CM2 engine. Earlier in the war, the Germans had real difficulties dealing with T-34's or KV's whenever they were encountered and I'd love to relive that experience. My number one would be the fighting during October of 1941 and the battles of Mtsensk, Borodino and the Mozhaisk defense line. It were probably some of the most decisive engagements of the war and they were also extremely interesting from the tactical point of view, that could be perfectly reflected by the CM2 engine.

[AttorneyAtWar]

The next Red Thunder module should bring us to Berlin or at least Prussia if I remember correctly.

[Ivanov]

9 minutes ago, Raptorx7 said:

The next Red Thunder module should bring us to Berlin or at least Prussia if I remember correctly.

If that's the case, it's not exactly early war. on the Eastern Front..  In terms of equipment the 1944/45 wouldn't be much different from the current Red Thunder.

[Warts 'n' all]

BFC have stated in the past, that their plans for the Eastern Front are to take the game up to Berlin. Although there has been much "wish list" talk about the early years in the East, I wouldn't hold your breath on it if I was you. Of course, i'd love to be wrong.

[kohlenklau]

Based on the rate of production of the last several years, I predict we can fight the Barbarossa type battles in around 2025.

But I could be wrong.

It could be later than that....

Maybe they could create a limited scope early war sampler game Combat Mission Early War with limited content to hold us over til then?

...some Poland 39...a bit of France & the Low Countries 1940...some Barbarossa..some North Africa...

Dial down and put tight restrictions on the scope and content to get it done.

Like model the Panzer II and use it in all those areas. 

Then they turn back to their reverse chronology system. 

 

[kevinkin]

Ivanov, I know it's not the same especially related to vehicles, but there is the Stalingrad MOD for something "new" on the east front. Players who have put aside the time frame disparity seem to have enjoyed the uploads made over at CMMODIII. As a teaser, a master map for the central district will be posted over the weekend. A player can get lost in the destruction  Everyone has noticed the artwork by NigelP and Umlaut is really top-notch. That being said, CM without Barbarossa would be incomplete in many player's view, BFC knows that, so there is hope. 

Edited May 27, 2016 by kevinkin

[Ivanov]

I'm definitely going to try the Stalingrad MOD. From what I've seen, it looks absolutely gorgeous! As to the future of Eastern Front titles, I'd be also happy to play the campaign in East Prussia or Berlin - they are rarely represented in the wargaming. But let's face it - people want to see new vehicles and check how they fare against each other. I'd be super happy if I could launch T-34 or KV-1 against Panzer 38 or BT-7 against Panzer III. I'm also pretty sure, that CM Barbarossa would be a hit from the commercial point of view. It's just a pity that the best dev teams have such a small manpower and they are able to release the new titles only at very modest pace...

[Anthony P.]

One day I'd also like to see CM:Barbarossa, but in all honesty I must say CM would be far more incomplete missing the final, ultimate large battle that ended the war.

[GhostRider3/3]

17 hours ago, Raptorx7 said:

The next Red Thunder module should bring us to Berlin or at least Prussia if I remember correctly.

Sounds about right.  I believe there was mention that Axis Allies like the Hungarians, Italians, Romanians...???? would be added as well as Waffen SS, and other formations.  Maybe new TOE.. or updated obviously.

[Michael Emrys]

1 hour ago, GhostRider3/3 said:

 I believe there was mention that Axis Allies like the Hungarians, Italians, Romanians...???? would be added as well as Waffen SS, and other formations.

And I'm pretty certain that some months ago Steve said that he had no intention of including minor allies this time around. I don't know if he would make exceptions though. Much of the work for the Italians is already done, but they wouldn't make it in for any game family set after Kursk. Seems like they would have to do the Finns, but again mostly for early in the war, I should think.

Michael

[kohlenklau]

I recall Steve had given us what I consider to be a crappy choice from my selfish customer POV of getting the extended timeframe with no extra formations OR we get the new formations like Waffen-SS but it stays with the same date range as current. Anybody else recall that thread? In other words, it seemed to me like CMRT doesn't just have ONE module to go but maybe 2! That means a new Ost Front "family" CM Kursk (covering summer of 1943 thru to pre-Bagration with the base game and a few modules) could be tentatively released way out there in 2019 or 2020. So my 2025 estimate for CM Barabarossa may be a little over optimistic. I will file for social security and pre-order CM Barbarossa some time in the late 2020's. 2 things to look forward to.... 

 

[Ivanov]

Including the Axis minors on the Eastern Front would only make sense in the context of early war The Romanians and Italians made significant contributions prior to 1943. By late 1944 Romania was already fighting on the Allied side.

[Sequoia]

I definitely think RT should be at least 2 more modules. There's so many things that could be added. Just for the current campaign one needs Luftwaffe Land forces and Allied Lend-lease vehicles and Partisans to make it complete. Later in the campaign there's SS and the Herman Goering division. SS security troops fought around Minsk. Hungarians and Axis Cossacks were involved. The East Front Poles can make an appearance, and you can have the Polish uprising in Warsaw of Resistance fighters against the worst of the SS. Beyond that there's the Soviet offensive against the Finns, the Winter Campaign in Poland, Hungary and Budapest: the Ost Front is just SO HUGE! 

[Bulletpoint]

4 hours ago, kohlenklau said:

That means a new Ost Front "family" CM Kursk

I can't see Kursk happening with the current engine. The whole point of Kursk is a huge tank battle and the current engine struggles to even put small formations on a couple of square kilometres. Yes we could pretend our tiny engagement is just part of a larger whole, but you just wouldn't get a feel for the scale, the maneuver, or the distances involved.

[Ivanov]

I think you could do almost anything you want with the CM2 engine. Current RT reflects engagements during the Bargration offensive, which was even bigger, than the Operation Citadel. The whole notion that it were hundreds of tanks rolling through the steppes, is a myth to a large degree. It was always down to a series of smaller engagements. It think it would be even possible to reflect the battle of Prokhorovka as a small campaign of few scenarios. Also, the battle of Ponyri or the defensive actions of Model on the northern front would look very interesting in CM2.

Edited May 27, 2016 by Ivanov

[TheVulture]

1 hour ago, Bulletpoint said:

I can't see Kursk happening with the current engine. The whole point of Kursk is a huge tank battle and the current engine struggles to even put small formations on a couple of square kilometres. Yes we could pretend our tiny engagement is just part of a larger whole, but you just wouldn't get a feel for the scale, the maneuver, or the distances involved.

Prokhorovka may have been a big tank battle (although in the books that go in to it in detail, you won't find a big meeting engagement between large tank forces unless you limit yourself to looking at the army scale.  In more detail it is full of things like a division of the guards tank army blundering in to a well prepared pak and stug front because they'd been told the infantry had already cleared that area and moved ahead,  or a German panzer-heavy combined arms force attacking an infantry regiment of the guards tank army. What you won't find is much of large armored formations manuevring against each other in open terrain. 

Plus that was only a few days of Kursk at the culmination of the sixth panzer army's attack.  There is plenty of fighting in the weeks before and after in the southern offensivery,  never mind the northern one,  the various Soviet counterstrike at Orel and elsewhere,  the German retreat to the Mius river and counter attacks to try and stabilise their lines on the river, and we've got material for hundreds of CM batitles just with July and August.

There is a lot more going on in Kursk than a few hundred tanks duking it out in a few square kilometres of farmland.  And the real battles didn't really involve any big armored forces clashing like that,  not on the scale of a CM battlefield. The big tank meeting engagement is an operational level concept., which is not CMs scope at all. At the tactical level it looks very different,  and CM can handle it just fineeds. 

Edited May 27, 2016 by TheVulture

[Ivanov]

58 minutes ago, TheVulture said:

There is a lot more going on in Kursk than a few hundred tanks duking it out in a few square kilometres of farmland.  And the real battles didn't really involve any big armored forces clashing like that,  not on the scale of a CM battlefield. The big tank meeting engagement is an operational level concept., which is not CMs scope at all. At the tactical level it looks very different,  and CM can handle it just fineeds. 

+1

[kevinkin]

7 hours ago, kohlenklau said:

I will file for social security and pre-order CM Barbarossa some time in the late 2020's. 2 things to look forward to.... 

At least you know CM will still be are around ... 

[kevinkin]

2 hours ago, TheVulture said:

the German retreat to the Mius river and counter attacks to try and stabilise their lines on the river

Love it. Light mobile forces, thrust and parry. Faster PCs, Huge Maps, Operational layer, Ranger Stanley Cup ..

ah ... I went too far.  

[Abbasid111]

Most of Kursk was the Germans trying to break through the deep Russians defences. Lots of tanks were involved in the southern attack and the Russians had even more tanks but the huge tank at Prokhorovka, as related from the Russian side and repeated and repeated, was shown to be false in the late 70s. 

[General Melchid]

I really liked the desperate feel of the early eastern front in CMBB trying to fight the German's with some of the Soviet's early junk equipment was a real challenge. The variety of supporting nations also added greatly to the game imo. 

[Blazing 88's]

5 hours ago, kevinkin said:

Love it. Light mobile forces, thrust and parry. Faster PCs, Huge Maps, Operational layer, Ranger Flyers Stanley Cup ..

ah ... I went too far.  

Yes, yes you did... FIXED!!   

Edited May 28, 2016 by Blazing 88's

[Bulletpoint]

14 hours ago, TheVulture said:

There is a lot more going on in Kursk than a few hundred tanks duking it out in a few square kilometres of farmland.  And the real battles didn't really involve any big armored forces clashing like that,  not on the scale of a CM battlefield.

Fair enough, I just thought that's what players meant when they ask for Kursk - Lots of armour, very long ranges.

[Erwin]

For huge eastern front armor-centric battles on huge maps you have to go back to CMBB.

.

[George MC]

1 hour ago, Erwin said:

For huge eastern front armor-centric battles on huge maps you have to go back to CMBB.

.

Define "huge"? Lot's of long range large armour brawls in CMRT.