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kevinkin

Campaign Result Calculation

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The manual is clear related to missions. How does the campaign system determine a player's final result? Here is a portion from the engine manual:

"After the last Battle, the player sees the Campaign AAR.  Unlike previous AARs, which showed results for the just-completed Battle, the Campaign AAR details how the player performed over the entire Campaign. This signifies the end of the Campaign. The individual campaign missions make full use of all Victory Options available for Battles."

I was thinking it was some form of an average of the individual missions but I ceased fired through a three mission campaign I am testing with a draw, total allied victory then a total allied defeat. The final campaign was a allied tactical victory. Hum ,, maybe the cease firing is messing with the calculation? 

Kevin

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The designer can also assign the final campagin end result through the campaign script file. This level of control helps for multi-branching pathway campaigns where players go down a 'locked' pathway as a result of an early mission result.

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It seems the the designer can specify what is said i.e. the text on the final screen.

/* Campaign Header*/ [PLAYER FORCE] blue   // options are: blue/red
[HUMAN OPPONENT ALLOWED] no  // no/yes
[BLUE VICTORY TEXT] You won! [BLUE DEFEAT TEXT] You lost!
[RED VICTORY TEXT] You won! [RED DEFEAT TEXT] You lost!

But the overall grade given the player for completing x number missions is assigned by the campaign system and does not appear to be an average of the score in those x missions. In the script example, the designer knows the player reached at least a tactical win in the first mission. But after that the do not have any idea how the last mission ended or what the end of campaign screen will display other than the text they specified. The win threshold in the campaign script for the final battle does not appear to matter. Some averaging takes place but the result displayed in my small test does not make sense. An "average result" for my 3 mission test would mean a "draw" for the campaign as a whole not an "allied tactical victory" as displayed. The example script below does not indicate any designer control and seems to pass control to the campaign system.

/*Battle #2*/

[BATTLE NAME] My Second Little Battle
[WIN THRESHOLD] minor defeat
[NEXT BATTLE IF WIN]   // end campaign
[NEXT BATTLE IF LOSE]   // end campaign
 

Edited by kevinkin

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I saw that. Putting it into practice is the issue. The paragraph unfortunately does not answer my question(s) and leaves me guessing how to interpret the wording. Seems as if the designer can hard code the victory level for early ends "where you want the final score to reflect the fact the early end of the campaign more than the success or failure of each battle along the way."  But "success or failure of each battle along the way" implies a calculation. The instructions also imply the designer can ignore the calculation and hard code a victory level as long as the player makes it to the culminating battle regardless of their previous performance.  

 

Edited by kevinkin

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maybe run your test campaign through quickly BUT record points from the various AAR screens at the end of each battle (note you must click on several categories to see details on objectives rather than just the initial preseneted AAR screen shown) for each of the 3 battles ends and then manually calculate the c=(a+10)/(b+10) for the grand total and compare to what category is stated for the campaign.

From the JonS tutorial pdf...

Combat Mission has a number of different ways to award points, and how they’re used and combined will have a strong influence on how the battle is fought out. To start with it’s useful to understand how victory is determined. The algorithm that Combat Mission uses to determine victory is as follows:

A = points for the side who had more points
B = points for the side who had fewer points
(note: these are the definitions as given to me by A Guy Who’d Know, but I think that technically it’s actually “percentage of points pool for the side who had more/fewer points,” or something along those lines, rather than just a raw total.)

then

V = (A + 10) / (B + 10)

and

V < 1.25 : Draw
V < 1.75 : Minor Victory
V < 2.5 AND 30% of total pool for Side A : Tactical Victory
V < 4.0 AND 55% of total pool for Side A : Major Victory
V >= 4.0 AND 80% of total pool for Side A : Total Victory

For the higher victory levels the player must to attain both conditions to achieve that level. If Side A gets a V value of 2.6 (nominally a tactical victory) but only gets 20% of its potential points pool, they’ll only score a minor victory.

This formula is one really good reason why I generally have multiple small value objectives, rather than a few big-ticket items. Having many small value objectives means that there are more viable combinations of points for each side. To give a specific example, imagine a game in which each side was going for two objectives, each worth 500 points. Thus, each side can score either 0 points, or 500 points, or 1000 points. And when the two sides are compared to each other, there are only a few possible outcomes.
 

Edited by kohlenklau

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Remember that any battle designed in a campaign can be 'the final one' whether they win or lose.

An example from the tail end of my Operation Windsor Campaign (going down what I dubbed the 'performed worst than history path'). The scenario is called 'Fingernails' and represents the Canadians desperately trying to hang onto Carpiquet airfield from a determined Waffen SS assault. Now even if the player wins this battle it's already deemed to far gone for the overall operation to be considered a 'victory' following earlier defeats. However, the degree of overall operational defeat is adjusted depending on the outcome of this fight.

/*Battle 8C*/
[BATTLE NAME] Mission 8C Fingernails
[WIN THRESHOLD] minor victory
[NEXT BATTLE IF WIN] _tactical defeat
[NEXT BATTLE IF LOSE] _major defeat

Hope that helps.

 

 

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I have used the spreadsheet in the past. It's nice. Thanks for that. So there are two ways for the designer to score the campaign: 

1. they explicitly end the campaign and declare a victory level based on the player's progress through the branching. This technique does not use nor requires any calculation by the engine or

2. the campaign arrives at the end of the branching and the the designer allows Combat Mission to calculate the victory result by combining the results from the individual missions that make up the campaign. I think to get an accurate read on the calculation you can't cease fire through the campaign. At least the result I got makes no sense when I tried that. 

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In a CMx2 campaign there are only ever two outcomes at the end of each scenario. A 'win' or a 'loss' with the defintion of a 'win' set for each scenario by the designer via the campaign script file. (The Win Threashold line of the script in my example above). So for example the designer can state that the player must achieve at least a 'Major Victory' in 'Scenario X' for it the result to count as a 'win' on the campaign tree and lead to 'Scenario Y.' All results below a 'Major Victory' in that scenario will go down the other path, or in this example 'Scenario Z' which is designed to take into account the prior loss in 'Scenario X.' Players going down this latter path will probably never play 'Scenario Y' as a result.

Once you get to the end of the campaign path (there are no other scenarios to link to), then you can add in a designer stated campaign result as demonstrated in my previous post. Without looking to be certain, I'm pretty sure most campaign designers have done this to some or for all possible outcomes so they can rank the player's performance thesmevles based on the result of the last scenario played.

The best advice I can give before even opening the editor is to create a flow chart for your campaign so you can trace all the possible pathways a player may follow as they progress towards the end. The link below will take you to a post where you can see my flow chart for my 'Lions of Carpiquet' campaign. (Early draft that was tweaked before the end of development). Hopefully it will give you an idea.

http://www.thefewgoodmen.com/thefgmforum/threads/operation-windsor-2-0-now-with-trailer.17914/page-2

 

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The manual allows for a draw, I think. Anyway, can we confirm that Combat Mission does not track and retain the end of scenario data for the individual missions making up a campaign. Therefore, the final calculation I mentioned # 2 can not be done?  At least accurately. Player's performance is tracked and a final result displayed via their progress through the tree and the result of the final battle. I think the word normally was an unfortunate choice: " Normally, to signal the end of a campaign, the [NEXT BATTLE IF WIN] and/or the [NEXT BATTLE IF LOSE] fields are left empty." The manual says that " keywords can optionally be entered". But that's not a good option since the campaign's final result will equal the calculated result of the final battle disregarding any impact of where the player ended up in the tree structure. This does not explain my result using the script with the fields empty i.e.  
[NEXT BATTLE IF WIN]   // end campaign
[NEXT BATTLE IF LOSE]   // end campaign

Combat mission displays some calculated result at the end. Be that as it may since empty fields are not the best practice anyway. I have what I need now. Thanks.  

Edited by kevinkin

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Ithikial,

Yes sir, that is how I understood it to work. My personal branching system style is to throw in odd stuff for player decisions and die rolls and coin tosses. It deviates from a pure win vs lose flow chart to just different paths for variety I suppose/hope. Then at the end I am now thinking it will be some player self grading like if unit x, y and z all survive or similar the player can consider it a victory. But still mixed in with battle successes.  

Kevin,

You are the one who said he saw an extra end of campaign results screen, right? My memory had only recalled the results screen for the final battle and the blurb written by the campaign author. Because you could also review the map and see total campaign kill stats for your troops. I am imagining some extra end of campaign results screen would most likely NOT allow that since it is not tied to a battle/map. I haven't finished a campaign in a along time so maybe this is some odd new thing with CMFB? If you are correct in what you saw! But was it late at night? After some wine? Maybe only a dream? :D

Get a screenshot!

All this gets me into the mood to do some campaign authoring and campaign playing!

Edited by kohlenklau

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Using FB, I get 3 end of mission results screens and then after the third end of mission screen I get a end of campaign screen. 4 in total. As you pass through the 3 mission linear campaign by ceasefire you get a draw then a total allied then a total axis then a 4th  screen sums up the campaign as a allied tactical.  Again this is from using the sub optimal script syntax:
[NEXT BATTLE IF WIN]   // end campaign
[NEXT BATTLE IF LOSE]   // end campaign

I am not sure it's worth trying to figure out what how the game handles a campaign ending that way since nobody is using that syntax. I was just curious if the answer was known. I was hoping the game would average the results from the 3 missions as if they were one large scenario. 

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@Ithikial_AU

Question: You said this...

/*Battle 8C*/
[BATTLE NAME] Mission 8C Fingernails
[WIN THRESHOLD] minor victory
[NEXT BATTLE IF WIN] _tactical defeat
[NEXT BATTLE IF LOSE] _major defeat

The bottom 2 lines, normally the script file says to put battle file names there or a blank to end the campaign. Are those battle names at the end and it is a dummy battle or you are saying that forces a result to the end score? Is this documented anywhere or just something you learned along the way? Thanks.

 

 

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40 minutes ago, kevinkin said:

Using FB, I get 3 end of mission results screens and then after the third end of mission screen I get a end of campaign screen. 4 in total. As you pass through the 3 mission linear campaign by ceasefire you get a draw then a total allied then a total axis then a 4th  screen sums up the campaign as a allied tactical.  Again this is from using the sub optimal script syntax:
[NEXT BATTLE IF WIN]   // end campaign
[NEXT BATTLE IF LOSE]   // end campaign

I am not sure it's worth trying to figure out what how the game handles a campaign ending that way since nobody is using that syntax. I was just curious if the answer was known. I was hoping the game would average the results from the 3 missions as if they were one large scenario. 

I still would like to figure it out as I have used that syntax, maybe I shouldn't but please dropbox me the short 3 battle campaign and I will try to jot down the points for each side for each battle and then I can see if the end overall is using the formula for overall grand total points for each side. OK?

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8 hours ago, kohlenklau said:

@Ithikial_AU

Question: You said this...

/*Battle 8C*/
[BATTLE NAME] Mission 8C Fingernails
[WIN THRESHOLD] minor victory
[NEXT BATTLE IF WIN] _tactical defeat
[NEXT BATTLE IF LOSE] _major defeat

The bottom 2 lines, normally the script file says to put battle file names there or a blank to end the campaign. Are those battle names at the end and it is a dummy battle or you are saying that forces a result to the end score? Is this documented anywhere or just something you learned along the way? Thanks.

It is documented on page 111 of the game manual. The Overall campaign victory level can be determined by the script as I've outlined above, as well as a brief text summary. (One for any degree of campaign victory, and one for any degree of campaign loss). All other values are simply a combined total of casualties etc from all the scenarios the player played.

 

 

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Kevin,

 

OK, I did the map and the engine tracks all the points.

For the 3 battles B1/B2/B3/Finish

US was this: 250 of 750/1000 of 1000/0 of 750/2000 of 2500

Axis was 200 of I think 700/0 of 1000/750 of 750/950 of 2450.

So at the end we had V=(2000+10)/(950+10) = 2.09 and US had their 30% so they got the overall Campaign Tac Victory. 

(V < 2.5 AND 30% of total pool for Side A : Tactical Victory)

Mystery solved and my memory of campaign scoring has been scrubbed of cobwebs. Thanks fellas.

Edited by kohlenklau

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The missing link is the how an average is determined. The individual mission results are not treated separately then averaged qualitatively i.e. tactical allied + tactical axis = draw.  All the data is retained and pooled  and calculated quantitatively at the end of the campaign. This could lead to some strange end of campaign victory levels since the player will remember words like "total victory" rather than the numbers generated along the way.  So the designer might say: "your final campaign result is determined by pooling the results from each mission as if the campaign was a single scenario." This can be avoided by declaring levels in the script. All is understood now. 

 

 

 

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