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kinophile,

Never heard of an M60T before, so that discourse alone made it a good read. 

VladimirTarasov,

Appreciate the clarification. That was one lucky Turkish Army tank crew! Do you happen to have a pic?

Regards,

John Kettler

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In this case the Turkish M60 was just incredibly lucky. 

Few days ago IS ( supposedly ) managed to destroy with Kornets two Turkish T-155 howitzers, which have the firing range of about 40 km.

Interesting that they managed to get so close to them:
 

buqhlKDGGhA.jpg

 

Recently US announced that it will be deploying some HIMARS batteries to Turkey. I wonder if they also may be in danger from the enemy ATGM teams

 

Edited by Ivanov

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If the Turks let them get that close YES! I will have to look for an account of that action. I wonder if part of the problem was the pieces were too close to the front lines to begin with...

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7 hours ago, kinophile said:

Huh. So it appears to have essentially hit the turret at exactly the worst angle for penetration.

The ERA did its job:).

 

How's it ERA's job if the impact angle was through inert areas?

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How did ISIS get their grubby mitts all of a sudden on Russian Kornet missiles? and have they used them against Syrian/Russian forces or just the Turkish?

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1 hour ago, BTR said:

Syria was one of the larger importers of Kornet missiles since 2009. 

http://www.defenseworld.net/news/13790/Russia_Delivers_Kornet_Anti_Tank_Guided_Missiles_To_Syria#.VyxWW2MdFQU (Aug 2015)

Any idea how come these are finding their way so quickly into ISIS hands to be used against Turkey (who funnily enough don't see eye-to-eye with Russia)...

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Same feelings here. 

1 hour ago, Jammersix said:

I served with M60A1s.

If you gave me an M60, I'd sell it and use the money to buy a yellow dog and then shoot the dog.

And I like dogs.

 

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Wicky,

ISIS first captured Iraqi Kornet Es during the Battle of Baiji. The Iraqi Army started receiving deliveries in 2014. But that's only part of the story, for Iraqi SOF used Kornet E during OEF (2003). These ATGMs have thus been operational in the region for a long time.

By April 14, 2015, YT already had a compilation tank buster vid up with Kornet E very much in evidence.

ISIS video posted on YT Sept. 2, 2015 purportedly showing attacks it mounted in July 2015. Kornet E vs a ship!

October 2, 2015 YT video saw ISIS obliterate an Mi-17 type helicopter just after it landed.

Syria had the Kornet E in 2013, with 100 launchers and 1000 missiles supplied. It was purportedly Syria which supplied such ATGMs in 2006 for use versus the IDF in Lebanon. The 2013 report may therefore refer to a later buy.

Given the above, it's not at all difficult to show fairly easy means by which ISIS got Kornet Es.  

Ivanov,

It would appear the Turks wanted powerful DF to use against ISIS, but it neglected to think matters through. The US did, at least at one time, plan for the use of Paladins in MOUT, where their high elevation capabilities and potent shells could deal with just about any target, regardless of elevation. The piece on such use did note, though, that this required a lot of suppressive fire to protect these highly vulnerable and valuable weapons. Would imagine the Turks are rethinking this whole SPH in the close range DF role issue, though I should note that the Turks' now lost SPHs were at least hull down--for all the good it did them!

Regards,

John Kettler

Edited by John Kettler

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2 hours ago, John Kettler said:

Ivanov,

It would appear the Turks wanted powerful DF to use against ISIS, but it neglected to think matters through. The US did, at least at one time, plan for the use of Paladins in MOUT, where their high elevation capabilities and potent shells could deal with just about any target, regardless of elevation. The piece on such use did note, though, that this required a lot of suppressive fire to protect these highly vulnerable and valuable weapons. Would imagine the Turks are rethinking this whole SPH in the close range DF role issue, though I should note that the Turks' now lost SPHs were at least hull down--for all the good it did them!

 

The Soviet 2S1 were also designed to provide a direct fire support. I would be cool if in CMBS they appeared as on map assets.

As to Turkish howitzers - we don't know how close to the frontline they were. Unfortunately IS are quite resourceful and able to infiltrate the enemy territory. They've already attacked a newly established US fire base inside Iraq:

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/mar/21/marine-killed-iraq-isis-attack-unpublicised-us-only-base

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JK - the 03 invasion was OIF Iraqi Freedom and OEF was Enduring Freedom which was Afghanistan.  Two completely different situations and areas.

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11 hours ago, Ivanov said:

In this case the Turkish M60 was just incredibly lucky. 

Few days ago IS ( supposedly ) managed to destroy with Kornets two Turkish T-155 howitzers, which have the firing range of about 40 km.

Interesting that they managed to get so close to them:
 

buqhlKDGGhA.jpg

 

Recently US announced that it will be deploying some HIMARS batteries to Turkey. I wonder if they also may be in danger from the enemy ATGM teams

 

I see wire, so surely not Kornet.  Metis-M?

Edited by akd

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4 hours ago, Wicky said:

http://www.defenseworld.net/news/13790/Russia_Delivers_Kornet_Anti_Tank_Guided_Missiles_To_Syria#.VyxWW2MdFQU (Aug 2015)

Any idea how come these are finding their way so quickly into ISIS hands to be used against Turkey (who funnily enough don't see eye-to-eye with Russia)...

With the war now raging on for nearly five years, there have been many storage raids by FSA. Since parts of FSA trickled down to ISIS, perhaps they took some of their acquired weapons with them. 

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19 minutes ago, BTR said:

With the war now raging on for nearly five years, there have been many storage raids by FSA. Since parts of FSA trickled down to ISIS, perhaps they took some of their acquired weapons with them. 

Lots of equipment lost directly to ISIS by the Syrian regime and Iraqi army as well. Just yesterday ISIS captured tanks, artillery pieces ATGMs, trucks etc from regime forces in the Shaer gas fields near Palmyra.

http://spioenkop.blogspot.co.uk/2016/05/the-peculiarity-of-syrian-war-islamic.html?m=1

Also, there's probably plenty of trading of weapons etc between the different factions organized both at low and high level. The Kurds seemingly found documents implicating the regime in an exchange of weapons for oil with ISIS after capturing Shadadi and other ISIS documents have since come to light of more agreements between ISIS and the regime.

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