Strange Barbed wire with V3.0

[womble]

Ah. I see what you're getting at. I think. What you're pointing out isn't that the wire is behaving correctly when it's diagonally placed, but that the vehicles can squeeze through the gaps between diagonal and orthoganal sections of wire.

[CMFDR]

Even a lone barbed wire section can be passed over as long as it is diagonally-placed rather than whereas orthoganally-oriented.

The thing is that while that behaviour is not new as a whole, what Nitouche is pointing out is that it changed, from 3.0 he said. Back in 2.0 (I assume), wheeled armored vehicles such as M8 were able to pass over barbed wire, whatever was its orientation (his two first image in OP).

 

 

Edited April 19, 2016 by CMFDR

[womble]

I've been playing. Only with "proper tanks" though, to test, as is right and proper, one thing at a time.

It's not, as far as I can tell so far, about orthoganal vs diagonal. I've had PzIVs drive through both. But there is something really wierd going on, especially when you try and drive through a very long stretch of wire. At least. Something is definitely squiffy in the state of Barbed Wire. There's a pathing element to it: if it's a short piece of wire, or there's a gap nearby (not immediately adjacent; if the tracks are badly damaged, from, whaddayaknow, driving over a lot of barbed wire, say, the tank will go around through a nearby gap), the tank will behave as you would expect, whatever, as far as I can tell, the orientation of the wire (and tanks with good tracks will happily smash adjacent segments flat for you to widen the gap).

Give it a straight stretch all the way across the map (and you can only do that orthoganally; diagonals seem to want a gap at one end or the other, so you have to put a 90 degree bend in), and it can't figure out what to do with it. If there's a bend though, or a gap a long way down the stretch, the pathing algorithm seems to want to cross the wire "somewhere near" that discontinuity. DB of replay turn here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/79012974/Wire%20crossing.bts The StuG has a waypoint just opposite, but has turned along the line of the wire, and proceeds to make a new hole 7 wire segments along from the holes the PzIV made before its tracks gave out.

There is, I believe, an element of experimental artefact going on here, because it's rare to see long, perfectly straight sections of wire in real games, so whether it's worth fixing is arguable. But there's definitely something hinky going on.

Next up: wheels and wire.

[womble]

Wheels and wire... and further weirdness.

So there's some light tracked stuff involved in this one too.

But first, the wheel-y bit.

So it's a Puma, prolly the heaviest wheeled thing about. It won't drive through a piece of wire it can go round, but it will roll over a long piece without crushing it. As will an SdKfz251. The dropboxed replay turn shows the Hanomag being woo. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/79012974/Wheels%20and%20wire.bts Whether wheeled light armoured vehicles are meant to be able to drive over barbed wire or not, I'm sure they're not meant to be able to wiggle across without smashing it flat.

Hetzers and Luchs behave like their bigger brothers, the StuG and PzIV. They have to be within a few wire sections of a discontinuity to break it down, but they'll do that in any direction.

Edited April 19, 2016 by womble
Spuling mustik

[CMFDR]

"(...)but it will roll over a long piece without crushing it."

We probably are talking about the same thing here womble. Videos and screenshots have been posted, not sure to see another way to illustrate what we are observing. Ideas?

Anyway, not a big deal as it was that way before, to some extent.

 

[womble]

The best way to show what you're observing is to post a savegame to dropbox or some other publicly accessible place, so what you're seeing can be seen by others from different angles and in progress so they can draw some conclusions. And can use the setup to experiment further.

Doesn't really matter whether we're talking about the same thing: I'm convinced that there's a number of issues with barbed wire. The evidence has been presented and BFC might see this and do something about it.

[niall78]

On 18/04/2016 at 1:53 PM, rocketman said:

I had similar behaviour in "Lions of Carpiquet" second mission that felt unusal. Even flail-tanks would take a long detour to find a small gap in wire rather than just going over. That was under 3.11.

I had this same issue in "Lions of Carpiquet". I found the wire to be impenetrable to any vehicle. The first time I tried to move though some of it some of my armour went on a massive detour that lead them into AT fire.

Artillery and tank fire had little effect on this wire. This had the effect of funnelling my armour attack in a way that was highly unrealistic even when I eventually found a gap or two to advance through.

[womble]

I've reported it as two separate issues (it might really be three) on the bug tracker.

[CMFDR]

@womble

managed to get a couple saves here, and unexpected results. It seems like everyone have a backstage pass now :

 

Save : http://superdupontzeserveur.fr/cm/WireCrossing_Wheeled.bts

Yes, everyone!

 

Save : http://superdupontzeserveur.fr/cm/WireCrossing_WheeledUnarmored.bts

Please note that it doesn't work with a move destination at any grid behind the wire, as if one is setting the spot just behind the wire, most vehicles won't even try.

Hope it helps.

 

 

Edited April 21, 2016 by CMFDR

[akd]

On April 18, 2016 at 0:13 PM, Childress said:

Also, in the Demo I noticed that vehicles and infantry can pass through low hedges, albeit slowly. IIRC, this behavior was verboten in the other games.

Low bocage is passable to infantry in all titles except CMBN.  It is basically a thick hedge.  Really, it should be passable to infantry in CMBN even if we assume it is more "bocagey," but many scenarios were built around impasable low bocage, so I don't think it can be changed in that title.

[c3k]

Nitouche,

Great OP! I loved the cartoon commentary. Good discovery and well documented. Let's see if this can be fixed as soon as we'd all like.

Ken

[womble]

On 4/21/2016 at 0:27 AM, CMFDR said:

@womble

managed to get a couple saves here, and unexpected results. It seems like everyone have a backstage pass now :

[snip]

Please note that it doesn't work with a move destination at any grid behind the wire, as if one is setting the spot just behind the wire, most vehicles won't even try.

Hope it helps.

I'm not surprised at that result. If it "works" that way for any wheeled vehicle, it "should" work that way for all wheeled vehicles. Good catch with the "doesn't work if the waypoint is immediately behind the wire" point though.