Attacking dug-in germans?

[Mattnum]

So I am new to multiplayer CM, and not used to picking units nor am I a very good player. Anyway I've played a few games now were I have trouble taking strategic forests where my enemy is dug in. 

In my current game the woods have numerous trench facing my spawn direction filled with nasty german troops. On the back side of the woods is a bunker that is covering my approach to the objective. Basically if I avoid the woods, I am mowed down by a bunker/MG42 on it's back side, which can see across the narrow map. However taking the woods has just forced my troops into full "rattled" and retreats.

Is there particular equipment that is effecting in blasting through woods and trenchs? Also there is a huge variety of artillery which may have helped with the bunker (you can't see it until you are on the backside and pinned by a hail of bullets from various angles  so there would be no spotting, TRP only) is certain artillery better for effectively penetrating forests?

Demoralizing 

[George MC]

Opening barrage at the start - not tied to LOS of then. If that's against PBEM 'house rules' then next option is smoke - to obscure the enemy's view of your approach? Then get in amongst em with cold steel! They don't like it up em'!!

 

[Mattnum]

So that opening barrage I need soem TRP? What artillery would you advise?

Also what soviet units can fire smoke? My infantry battalion mortars don't appear to carry smoke which is a real bummer. I wasted a number of tank shells creating smoke/dust in the middle of a field, alas my men retreated due to other fire unrelated to bunker.

[kevinkin]

George is right. In terrain with limited sight lines you just have to go get them after smoke allows you to move into assault position. Perhaps try assaulting  at a right angle to the trench line. In naval terms "crossing the T" by place overwhelming friendly fire on a portion of the enemy line and then moving along the line kind of like a zipper in jacket. Breach and FT teams can help minimize your losses if available. On the Soviet side, SMG units can be devastating. Light mortars and MGs can keep up with your attack and provide standoff suspension fire. Take a look at the time you have to complete the mission and pace your attack accordingly. By taking your time and causing consistent enemy casualties their line may just collapse sooner than you might think.  

Kevin

[landser]

1 hour ago, Mattnum said:

So that opening barrage I need soem TRP? What artillery would you advise?

Also what soviet units can fire smoke?

If using a pre-planned artillery strike, no TRP is needed. As mentioned , LOS is not a requirement either. A TRP is useful for later artillery missions, but not a pre-planned strike (issued during the setup phase) While pre-planned strikes can be very destructive, you miss out on the suppression effects, since it will likely take a while to move from your start position to the area targeted by your strike, giving the defenders time to recover. For that reason I suggest the largest caliber you can afford in order to do as much damage and inflict as many casualties as you can. But of course there are other considerations, including requiring having enough artillery to hit multiple positions on the map, in which case cheaper arty may be wise as you can afford more of it. But in this case, where the trench position seems to be the major concern, big shells will probably have a greater return. Pre-planned strikes are very accurate, and your shells will fall where you want, making the large caliber arty very effective in these situations. But purchasing units is a matter of opportunity cost, or the loss of potential gain from other alternatives when one alternative is chosen. Might you have been better off using those arty points on another platoon or a couple of light armored vehicles for example? But that's the beauty of it, and why I imagine most players take a long time to finalize their purchases. Me too.

And the first time you played the scenario you likely wouldn't have even been aware of this trench, or any of the enemies positions during purchasing, unless it's outlined in the briefing. So only through hindsight can you really know what the perfect recipe is for overcoming the tactical problem. For this reason, a healthy mix of rocks, paper and scissors is usually advisable. For every enemy unit, there is a counter. Whether you will have that counter is another matter, so it is nice to have a little of everything. Isn't it though? But compromises will almost always have to be made, as you can't buy everything.

As a sort of workaround for the limited time of suppression effects, you can choose to set the strike up with harass or light over long or maximum duration. This will keep the shells raining down for a long time. I've had strikes last close to 15 minutes this way, perhaps helping you to get your men in position.

I also agree with Kevin that you should try to flank the position if possible. Firing lengthwise along the trench, especially with squads armed with PPSh's can be devastating. But the challenge here is getting them in to position in the first place. Try using fire and maneuver. Get some fire in on that trench using your MGs and tanks, and use their suppression to cover the approach of your assault platoons. Many times easier said than done. Consider area fire, that won't cease when the targeted enemy drops down out of sight.

The other question is a good one. 82 mm mortars can carry smoke rounds. As for larger guns, I don't know which do and which don't. The absence of smoke for the infantry is the thing I like least about playing as the Soviets. Smoke is core to my basic tactics, and I really miss it. Soviet SMG-heavy squads are excellent, but they need to be at relatively close range. The lack of smoke makes this much more difficult to achieve.

Edited April 6, 2016 by landser

[Mattnum]

I am playing a multiplayer game, so each one is a steep learning curve, definitely did not know about trench's and bunker although I should have guessed. I will probably reduce the amount of rifle squads I purchase in the future, add some more specialized units.

Are flame throwers ok moving through dense woods? There is a small rise leading up to the woods, so my approach is covered until I am there, but then under intense fire as soon as I peak my head. 

Edited April 6, 2016 by Mattnum

[Andrew H.]

I would advise you to buy soviet submachinegun squads instead of rifle squads; their ROF makes them extremely powerful.  Especially at close range.

[DLaurier]

the 82 mm mortar is your friend.
Use a off-map battery of 82s to pummel your enemy while you get close.
Send in SMG squads while keeping LMGs and rifle squads back as overwatch.
A few flame throwers can kill the bunker from behind once you clear a path for them.

[DLaurier]

ps.
post a screen shot

[JasonC]

On the bunker, indirect artillerynis actually what it defends against the best, with small arms fire a close second.  It has two vulnerabilities - close approach by infantry outside its covered arc (not from its front, in other words), and direct fire by AT weapons from its frontal arc, going through the firing slit.  That means guns, tanks, ATRs.  For an MG only bunker, a tank just trumps it for that reason, because the MG won't hurt a buttoned tank, and even a lighter tank's main gun will eventually put rounds through that firing slit and knock out the bunker.  

If you don't have a tank, a towed gun with a good gun shield (small antitank gun for example) can do it.  With the Russians, a few ATRs all banging away will likely suppress it, though if you are too close the reply MG fire is more dangerous to you guys than the reverse. The bunker is easier to see at range, so 3 ATRs at 200-250 yards and in cover can pin down the guys inside, and they likely won't see your shooters to fire back.

If you have no tank or long enough lines of sight for that, you have to flank it.  Smoke can blind it will you get through its firing arc, but don't run into its "friends" supporting it in the process.  By that I mean you need to prepare the way for a smoke supported rush, by defeating infantry around the bunker.  Artillery HE can help with that, etc.  

You never want to "fight fair" or give the enemy's strongest units the match up they are best at, so don't spend lots of off board artillery trying to shell the bunker itself, or leave lots of infantry in its front arc for it to shoot up, for long periods.  If you can arrange any of the clean win methods above, use them.  If you can't, avoid the route the bunker covers, entirely, and try somewhere else instead.

[Bulletpoint]

On 6/4/2016 at 5:27 PM, George MC said:

Opening barrage at the start - not tied to LOS of then. If that's against PBEM 'house rules' then next option is smoke - to obscure the enemy's view of your approach? Then get in amongst em with cold steel! They don't like it up em'!!

 

If the claymore charge doesn't do the job, send in your veteran bagpipe platoon to flush them out of the forest 

 

[George MC]

54 minutes ago, Bulletpoint said:

If the claymore charge doesn't do the job, send in your veteran bagpipe platoon to flush them out of the forest 

 

Yup that's the tactics that saw the Jacobite Army to victory in 1746. Oh. Wait...