CM: BS DAR Gnarls vs. Artemis258: Art begone...

[gnarly]

Note: this is an exact duplicate of my thread over at FGM..

 

This my first DAR, and my third BS game versus @Artemis258 (and in fact my first PBEM game was against him), and I must admit that I am thoroughly embarrassed at the ending of the previous two, both being rather pathetic cease fires from my side. This is also my second ever PBEM game using armour. So this DAR has a twofold purpose; to hopefully keep a few of you entertained at my likely rapid demise and poor usage of Ukrainian Oplots, and to keep me honest. Oh, and possibly to get some extra tactical opinions from the grogheads on here! ;D



I have rapidly learnt that BS is absolutely brutal, and very unforgiving. If you can be seen, you are likely gonna be deaded real quick! My last game versus Art was my first experience with armour in a PBEM, and that was truly a lesson by fire; my (prehistoric) Bulat’s started going pop rather rapidly….

After that game (small force on a medium map), I realized that BS really needs a map 2 sizes larger than the force when using tanks, for them to have decent tactical options and maneuvering room. To quote Artemis, (it was) a knife fight in a phone booth.



So having learnt my lesson, Art (defending Russkies) and I (attacking Ukranians) are again going to head to head in another probe over a medium map, again with small forces. And this map is pretty much open country through the middle… GAH! And I was the map selector… Stoopid!

This is a no-holds barred match, except with no air assets whatsoever (including drones).

So here goes.

[gnarly]

First the terrain.

 

 

I’m attacking from the west, across a river with a bridge (major objective) and two fords either side. I’ve a moderately wooded Medium (height) Ridge running at an angle on my left flank, and a low Sparse Ridge on my right flank. The map is dominated by a Big Hill on Art’s left flank (SE corner).

Looking obliquely back across from my right flank:

 

 

 

 

[gnarly]

From behind my jump-off line, looking east.

 

[gnarly]

Gnarls brainstorming


This is where CM luminaries such as Bil would invoke an obscure acronym such as METT-T, or some other random collection of consonants, which lacking any vowels, almost invariably fail to stick in my brain, and require a google search every-time to unearth the meaning of each letter....


Instead, I'll apply my own effortlessly remembered acronym, in the spirit of @C3K's current approach vs @Baneman in their CM:FB battle: KISS



So, the midfield is a veritable death trap (again stoopid map choice by the author ); as soon as any of my team steps foot (or tread) past either the Medium Ridge or the Sparse Ridge, they will almost invariably be met by a swarm of ATGM missiles and T-90 125mm projectiles.


Art’s side


In terms of Art's deployments, whilst the Big Hill has a commanding view over the whole map, it is very exposed, so I am not expecting much armour up there. Instead, I presume he will liberally seed it with ATGM and supporting teams (likely an FO) in foxholes.


The buildings at the minor objectives will also likely have an FO and ATGMs, and a tank or two keyholed if possible. The bulk of his armour is likely to be around his right flank, tucked away amongst the sparse trees and being held as a reaction force once he has an idea of my intentions.


I am expecting Art to make liberal use of arty, as I have very limited features on my side to work from.


Gnarls side


I’m generally a cautious player, and as mentioned previously, in BS, he who sees first, generally wins. So a C3K style rush will in all likelihood lead to my complete devastation.


Instead, I’m going to get eyes (and barrels) across the lengths of both the Medium Ridge and the Spare Ridge, get an idea of Art’s forces, blast those I can see, and see what happens from there. I am inclined to focus getting a force onto the western flank of the Big Hill at some point; from there they can dominate Art’s right flank, whilst being out of LOS of any of Art’s forces in his middle.



On my left flank, the Medium Ridge has quite a width and density of trees, but with little foliage at the base of the trunks (poplar trees or something). Pretty difficult to get Oplots with LOS through/across it, without exposing them. And their maneuverability in there would be crap. So instead I’m going to convert it into a prickly ridge of crew served weaponry, though I expect casualties amongst them from an arty barrage sooner or later. The Antitank Platoon, led by callsign Charles with 2 BMP-2’s, will deploy 3 AT-4c and 2 recoilless rifle teams across the length of the ridge, with LOS onto Big Hill. They will be supported by the paired-down mechanized 4th Platoon, with 2 BMP-2’s and 2 squads.

 

Anchoring the right side of the Medium Ridge will be a reduced 2nd Platoon of 2 Oplots, as well at the Company HQ tank. The overall Tactical Group HQ tank backstops this force.

My right flank is pretty simple; an extended line of both 1st Platoon’s 3 Oplots and 3rd Platoon’s 2. My FO (callsign ‘Assassin’, with 1 battery of off-map 152mm) and the Command squad is also over here, as well as one attached ATGM team from the Antitank platoon.

 

Intent
Find ‘em and blast ‘em!

Get LOS quickly across the field with the Oplots, and eliminate any vehicles. Use the arty to neutralize any ATGM teams on the Big Hill, as well as destroy the buildings at the minor VP (specifically looking for FO’s). Then we’ll see. I have added three TRPs at Big Hill, the minor VP and the buildings on Art’s right flank, to this purpose (otherwise UKR and US arty call times are almost useless in a fast moving battlefield, as this will be….)

Lets see just how quickly this 'plan' goes to the crappers!!

 

 

Edited February 6, 2016 by gnarly

[Bud Backer]

This looks interesting. All that open terrain will be tricky to cross.

Looks like scouting will be key. Is there much wind? Have you smoke shells aplenty?

[gnarly]

Opening minute 60 – 59

 

Surprisingly, no visual contacts.

The antitank and infantry platoons disembark close to the treeline of the Medium Ridge

 

The northernmost ATGM team hears infantry movement on the opposite side of the ridge, whilst engine sounds are also heard amongst the trees at the western base of Big Hill.

[gnarly]

 

Minute 59-58

 

On the right flank, a missile from Big Hill impacts close to a tank of 1^st Platoon.

Edited February 7, 2016 by gnarly
Why is it so frackin hard to share google image linsk in these forums?????

[gnarly]

Immediately the 1^st Company HQ tank and a 4^th Plat. IFV open fire on the pesky crew-served weapon.

 

 

 

[gnarly]

Meanwhile, 3 BMPs from the antitank and infantry platoons converge on the infantry contacts on the Medium Ridge, providing area fire, whilst the A team of 1^st Squad/4^th moves in, providing protection for the weapon teams.

First blood to Art (I think?) as the machine gunner in the A team is killed, after crouching up to engage the (I presume?) Russian scouts.

 

 

Edited February 7, 2016 by gnarly
GAH! 0.4MB image limit, even if its via URLs.....

[gnarly]

Lastly, a single heavy calibre spotting round impacted the road just west of the bridge  (you can see the dust below). I'm surprised that Art hasn't TRP's dialed in for both the Medium and Sparse ridges...

Edited February 7, 2016 by gnarly

[gnarly]

This looks interesting. All that open terrain will be tricky to cross.

Looks like scouting will be key. Is there much wind? Have you smoke shells aplenty?

Good question @Bud_B.

 

I am still struggling to understand who/what is not impeded by smoke (and by which type of smoke; some vehicles have IR-blocking smoke canisters, but I think arty does not?). Generally I think recent model vehicles have suitable thermal/other sights to not be impeded by arty smoke? But not always. But I think it is safe to say most RUS and UKR infantry cannot see through any smoke, though again, I am perpetually confused as to whether crew-served weapons have the gear to see through it.

 

Certainly my Oplots cannot see through their auto-triggered smoke screen (launched due to a number of laser warnings).

Hence I have never really thought about smoke screen use in BS, as it's so confusing. But the problem with being safely hull-down behind the Sparse Ridge, with only LOS (and therefore exposure) to Big Hill, is that most of the Oplots can't see 'down' onto the plains and therefore the objectives.

Looks like scouting will be key. Is there much wind? Have you smoke shells aplenty?

 

I'll need to check, but that Oplot smoke screen is drifting NNW-ish at a moderate pace (i.e toward my left flank). I've already tasked my 152mm battery with a heavy, short barrage in 3 minutes on the SW house in the minor objective, which has a window facing directly towards me, and is a prime location for an FO or ATGM team.

 

Instead, I am tempted to leapfrog the tracks of either 1st or 3rd platoon under the cover of their smoke screen to the little thicket to their front, which has some hull-down potential.

 

Edited February 7, 2016 by gnarly

[Abdolmartin]

In-game, arty smoke is not multi-spectral and does not block IR radiation. Oplots have the same multi-spectral smoke as Abrams and T-90s. I don't know about Bulats and BTR-4Es, but I think at least the BTR-4E has the same kind of smoke. BMP-2s have the black smoke that doesn't block IR.

And by the way, having BRM-1Ks can help with spotting when your tanks pop defensive smoke, since it has radar. I found that out in a mission of the TF Spartan Resolve campaign, where my BRMs became heroes due to their spotting capabilities (seeing and shooting BTRs behind smoke).

[gnarly]

Frackin stoopid URL image links.....They work, then they don't. Then they work...

 

Lets try that again; ATGM missing a tank:

 

[gnarly]

Russian ATGM guy under return fire....

 

[gnarly]

In-game, arty smoke is not multi-spectral and does not block IR radiation. Oplots have the same multi-spectral smoke as Abrams and T-90s. I don't know about Bulats and BTR-4Es, but I think at least the BTR-4E has the same kind of smoke. BMP-2s have the black smoke that doesn't block IR.

And by the way, having BRM-1Ks can help with spotting when your tanks pop defensive smoke, since it has radar. I found that out in a mission of the TF Spartan Resolve campaign, where my BRMs became heroes due to their spotting capabilities (seeing and shooting BTRs behind smoke).

Many thanks @Abdolmartin for the info. I think that's where I was leaning; arty smoke seems to really only be of use when confronting infantry.

[Bud Backer]

Good question @Bud_B.

 

I am still struggling to understand who/what is not impeded by smoke (and by which type of smoke; some vehicles have IR-blocking smoke canisters, but I think arty does not?). Generally I think recent model vehicles have suitable thermal/other sights to not be impeded by arty smoke? But not always. But I think it is safe to say most RUS and UKR infantry cannot see through any smoke, though again, I am perpetually confused as to whether crew-served weapons have the gear to see through it.

 

Certainly my Oplots cannot see through their auto-triggered smoke screen (launched due to a number of laser warnings).

Hence I have never really thought about smoke screen use in BS, as it's so confusing. But the problem with being safely hull-down behind the Sparse Ridge, with only LOS (and therefore exposure) to Big Hill, is that most of the Oplots can't see 'down' onto the plains and therefore the objectives.

 

I'll need to check, but that Oplot smoke screen is drifting NNW-ish at a moderate pace (i.e toward my left flank). I've already tasked my 152mm battery with a heavy, short barrage in 3 minutes on the SW house in the minor objective, which has a window facing directly towards me, and is a prime location for an FO or ATGM team.

 

Instead, I am tempted to leapfrog the tracks of either 1st or 3rd platoon under the cover of their smoke screen to the little thicket to their front, which has some hull-down potential.

 

There is no question, the different types of obscurantism dependent on smoke emitter is confusing. 

I think there is no hard and fast rule as yo which crew served weapons can see through smoke either. Most FOOs can. I remember using Russian FOOs for much more than just arty direction. And I've done the same with BRM-1Ks as abdolmartin recommended. 

The complexity and variability of the different systems and being aware of them all is the biggest challenge to me in CMBS...and the reason I play it the least compared to the WWII titles. 

Edited February 7, 2016 by Bud_B

[Abbasid111]

Most US crew-served weapons are capable of mounting a thermal sight. I have found from experience the AT-14 (Russian) and the Skif (UKR) have thermal sights but AGLs and older ATGM systems do not. I dont remember if the AT-13 does but i think not.

As has been stated above your Oplots have IR-blocking smoke while your BMP-2s have the older black smoke. Most modern equipment have IR-blocking smoke however i dont think the BTR-4E even has a smoke launcher.

Did you consider upgrading or subbing a Skif or a Corsar for the older AT-4 ATGM or SGP-9? IMHO the Corsar is the closest thing there is to a Javelin in the game. You still have to watch out for APS equipped Russians but it and the Skif were made for defeating ERA.

Good Luck in the DAR. I'm rooting for you and your UKR boys

[gnarly]

Thanks @Abbasid11, being a relative noob to BS, I am still rather overwhelmed at the subtleties and variations of the smorgasbord of kit. So your comments and advice are invaluable, many thanks!

 

Re upgrading the ATGM's, as always it takes me a few sessions to get the army purchase right (first time I forgot the antitank platoon entirely), and so when I dis remember to purchase it, I totally forgot to play with upgrades/variants.

-> I sooo wish there was a Save feature in Army purchase; each time I get it wrong, I have to restart from scratch, and in the process of correcting my wrong, I almost invariably always forget something I had previously corrected. Gah!

 

Good point too; I keep forgetting that the more recent ATGMs have tandem warheads and such; I'm sure I will get annoyed soon with solid hits that simply blow off T-90 ERA panels. Sigh...

 

I think there is no hard and fast rule as yo which crew served weapons can see through smoke either. Most FOOs can. I remember using Russian FOOs for much more than just arty direction. And I've done the same with BRM-1Ks as abdolmartin recommended. 

 

My UKR FO certainly can't see thru the IR-blocking smoke.

Thankyou both re the info about the BRM-1K; I'll try that next time.

 

 

 

The complexity and variability of the different systems and being aware of them all is the biggest challenge to me in CMBS...and the reason I play it the least compared to the WWII titles. 

@Bud_B iIt's why I am really looking forward to CM: FB, as I don't own any WW2 titles yet, and am really looking forward to much more simple/linear shooting, where guns and projectiles are 'simple', without forcefields, blow-off panels, and special optics!

 

 

 

 

Edited February 8, 2016 by gnarly

[Bud Backer]

@Bud_B It's why I am really looking forward to CM: FB, as I don't own any WW2 titles yet, and am really looking forward to much more simple/linear shooting, where guns and projectiles are 'simple', without forcefields, blow-off panels, and special optics!

And duotronic memory circuits!

I think if you enjoy tactics and WWII military history, you will have a lot of fun with CMFB. When you get it let me know if you want to have a PBEM game.

 

[gnarly]

And duotronic memory circuits!

I think if you enjoy tactics and WWII military history, you will have a lot of fun with CMFB. When you get it let me know if you want to have a PBEM game.

 

I'll bring the wine if you bring the candles!

[Bud Backer]

I'll bring the wine if you bring the candles!

I'm partial to the Jacobs Creek Two Lands Shiraz 2011. Heard good things. 

Edited February 8, 2016 by Bud_B

[gnarly]

Minute 58-57

The bunfight amongst the trees at the north end of the Medium Ridge continues; a member of the 2nd ATGM team is critically wounded. A BTR-82 is spotted by a recoiless team high and to the back of the Big Hill.

With an extensive IR-blocking tank-deployed smoke screen (due to laser-warnings) in front of my right flank (moving rapidly NNW), I've ordered the two tanks of 2nd platoon to rush forward to the little copse of trees to their front left, to try and get some LOS down onto the minor objective, and Art's right flank.

[gnarly]

Minute 57-56

That BTR ineffectively engages the Antitank IFV's whilst under a barrage of rounds from the 1st recoiless team; it takes them 7 shots before the BTR is neutralised.

 

One of the ATGM teams briefly spots another BTR to the right.

The firefight continues on the medium Ridge, with another 3 man team spotted ln the middle of the ridge.

On my right, 2nd platoons Oplots dart forward unopposed (whew!). 1st platoon's HQ tank gets a visual an another BTR in the trees at the west base of the Big Hill at the turn end.

 

Edited February 9, 2016 by gnarly

[Bud Backer]

Minute 57-56

That BTR ineffectively engages the Antitank IFV's whilst under a barrage of rounds from the 1st recoiless team; it takes them 7 shots before the BTR is neutralised.

 

One of the ATGM teams briefly spots another BTR to the right.

The firefight continues on the medium Ridge, with another 3 man team spotted ln the middle of the ridge.

On my right, 2nd platoons Oplots dart forward unopposed (whew!). 1st platoon's HQ tank gets a visual an another BTR in the trees at the west base of the Big Hill at the turn end.

 

is it just my browser that doesn't display the images? 

[Haiduk]

Hm... Looks like in the editor default Ukrainian camo still old 90th years "dubok", not new "MM14"

Edited February 9, 2016 by Haiduk