Red Thunder or Fortress Italy?

[Abdolmartin]

Greetings, ladies and gents.

I've played CMBS and it is one of the best games I've ever played. Now I'm going to step into WW2 CM, and I don't really know which one of these two to choose.

I know, the question is going to have people shouting at me "Do you have any idea how different they are?!". Yes I do. I've played both demos, and I like both, despite the fact that their greatest similarity is both of them being called Combat Mission.  In CMBS, I liked both combined arms missions and infantry only missions, probably preferring combined arms missions (involving armour and mech infantry) by a rather small margin. I want to hear your opinions about these two games. I really like the Ostfront atmosphere, but recently I've developed a liking for CMFI after reading through the forums.

And by the way, are there any user-made Soviet campaigns for CMRT? I've looked at the mods section and at TSD, and all the campaigns I've seen have been German.

Thanks in advance. I figured that the CMRT forums were more active, and that's why I've posted it here.

[rocketman]

I'd go for RT if you want more content and mods, but the setting is similar to BS. CMFI seems a bit "dead" at the moment, not many new scenarios or campaigns. Maybe it will take off again with the next module. I like both games for different reasons. The main attraction of FI is the scenery with big hills and valleys.

[Warts 'n' all]

As far as I know at the moment there aren't any user-made campaigns for the Red Army, which seems a shame as I'd love to see more of them.

As for which I prefer from CMFI and CMRT, I'm not a great fan of having to try to fight my way up a hill with the enemy staring down at me. So Fortress Italy isn't really my cup of tea. Whereas Red Thunder allows us to put our tanks guns to their full use in many of the scenarios, so I certainly enjoy it more. 

[gnarly]

@Abdolmartin, I went through all the demos (BN, FI, RT, BS) before settling on BS, and too am loving it!

 

Personally I found RT just too big for me, and FI didn't appeal in terms of units; instead I decided to await CM: FB, which looked like it would satisfy my 'classical' WW2 itch (allies vs Germans), without the maze-like bocage of BN.

 

And that is still my plan.

 

So question; have you considered awaiting the availability of FB (should (?) be late Feb?

[Bud Backer]

One of the interesting things about CMFI is that it covers July 1943 (!!) onward, something that no other CM game does. The rest start June 1944. And with the added module that is going to be worked on after CMFB, Likely will go to war end. That's two instead of one year of war for every other game, with the increased variety of units, etc.

Disclaimer: I have all the CMx2 games.

I bought CMFI last. I didn't think it would be enticing, but the unique terrain - not all of which is mountainous, there is great variety of terrains and map types - and the mid war kit, with a good variety of nations including Luftwaffe, really turned my ho-hum opinion around.

I'm not saying you should get it rather than CMRT, but I'd like to give it more than the short shrift it seems to get from many.

[domfluff]

I think there's an argument that CMFI is the strongest of all of the CM games. Since it's mostly a little earlier, it avoids the supertank problem that CMBN has, and the environments make a huge change from the geometric puzzles of the bocage.

CMRT also avoids the dominance of the big cats, by all sides having the ability to kill each other fairly equally. I've only recently started getting excited about CMRT and really diving into it deeply.

[snarre]

tiger and panther is super tank to allied side ewen on italy  . there is not ewen firefly or sherman whit 76 mm gun 

[kohlenklau]

CMFI has snow and many nations with more coming soon as a module 2016/2017 and Africa desert soon as a mod.

CMRT now has modded winter and some new nations coming soon as a mod**. Official winter module in 2017 or 2018.

Get them all.

Eat Progresso soup for lunch. $1.50 a can.

** Hungary and Italy.

Edited February 4, 2016 by kohlenklau

[DLaurier]

Greetings, ladies and gents.

I've played CMBS and it is one of the best games I've ever played. Now I'm going to step into WW2 CM, and I don't really know which one of these two to choose.

I know, the question is going to have people shouting at me "Do you have any idea how different they are?!". Yes I do. I've played both demos, and I like both, despite the fact that their greatest similarity is both of them being called Combat Mission.  In CMBS, I liked both combined arms missions and infantry only missions, probably preferring combined arms missions (involving armour and mech infantry) by a rather small margin. I want to hear your opinions about these two games. I really like the Ostfront atmosphere, but recently I've developed a liking for CMFI after reading through the forums.

And by the way, are there any user-made Soviet campaigns for CMRT? I've looked at the mods section and at TSD, and all the campaigns I've seen have been German.

Thanks in advance. I figured that the CMRT forums were more active, and that's why I've posted it here.

I believe the correct answer is
YES.

[sburke]

I am with Bud.  I love CMFI.  That being said, CMRT is also a blast.  Face it you will own them all at some point.  The first step in beating addiction is to admit to it. 

[Abdolmartin]

Thank you everyone for your informative responses!

@gnarly Yes I've considered CMFB as well, but I've put it for later, after this purchase or maybe the next. I dunno, but both the Italian hills and the Bielorussian plains and marshes seem to have more appeal to me than the Ardennes. And yeah CMBS is lovely stuff (but perhaps lovely isn't really an appropriate term for airburst HE and ATGMs...  )

@domfluff Yes I've noticed that, and it's one of the appealing points of CMRT for me, not to mention my long-time love for the T-34/85.

@Bud_B Yes that's exactly why CMFI entered the competition. But overall, which one do you think would have greater appeal for a fervent CMBS player?

@kohlenklau I'd have to eat noodles and soup for a rather long time if I did that.

@sburke But what if I don't even want to beat the addiction and just want to sink deeper and deeper into it?  

[Bud Backer]

@Bud_B Yes that's exactly why CMFI entered the competition. But overall, which one do you think would have greater appeal for a fervent CMBS player?

CMRT was my second CM game. I had CMBN, which was stellar and I wanted Russian front stuff. CMFI was last, after CMBS. Were I to do it again, CMBS would be last (not because the game is bad, but my heart lies in WWII stuff). 

If I didn't have ANY CM games. I'd pick CMFI over CMRT hands down, despite my general greater interest in the eastern front over the Italian campaign. Why? More years, and earlier years, than CMRT. Greater terrain variation. Considerable greater variety of "nations" (allied has US, UK, Canada, New Zealand, Poland; axis has German army, Luftwaffe, Italians). And then upcoming expansion is slated for CMFI so I know the game I buy will be the most up to date, and have the newest expanded content. And if I had to choose between western and eastern front, I'd always take western. So CMFI satisfies that desire.

But that's me. And in no way am I knocking CMRT, after all, it is more popular than CMFI based on forum activity at least.  

Important personal opinion: Go with your gut. While CMFI surprised me, it may not surprise you in the same way and to the same extent. If you're dying to plunge T34/85s into the guts of the Nazi aggressors, and less so a Cromwell or an M3 halftrack, then CMRT is your baby. If you want to experience a greater variety of nations and see earlier kit, then CMFI is the way to go. 

Don't base your decision on what others (including me) say - because despite good intentions we are not you, and what drives us will never be identical. Others can tell you what the game offers, that's the only thing. They can't tell you what you will enjoy. Go with your gut. I really don't think you can go wrong.

 

Edited February 4, 2016 by Bud_B
additional content

[lordhedgwich]

Fortress Italy

[Wodin]

The answer to your question is simple..what War\Theater have you the most interest in out of the two? Which ever it is is the one to buy.

[Abdolmartin]

Well, I think that I'll have to go with CMRT since I like the eastern front more*, but definitely the one after it will be CMFI.

Thanks everyone for your opinions, especially Bud.

 

* I mean, I can't resist the urge to call down a massive arty barrage on the Germans and then shout URRRAAAA.

Edited February 5, 2016 by Abdolmartin
spelling

[Wodin]

May your pixeltruppen be blessed with good luck. I'm sure they are looking forward to their new commander!

 

(To be honest you can't go wrong with any of them. Personally and if you have the money I'd go for CMBN and it's modules next. You'll never be short of a new scenario to play, plus lots of campaigns both by BF and user made. Oh and make sure you get JuJu's UI mod and everything by Aris including his terrain. This applies to both CMRT and CMBN and CMFI (though not sure what Aris has made for CMFI)).

Edited February 5, 2016 by Wodin

[Abdolmartin]

May your pixeltruppen be blessed with good luck. I'm sure they are looking forward to their new commander!

 

(To be honest you can't go wrong with any of them. Personally and if you have the money I'd go for CMBN and it's modules next. You'll never be short of a new scenario to play, plus lots of campaigns both by BF and user made. Oh and make sure you get JuJu's UI mod and everything by Aris including his terrain. This applies to both CMRT and CMBN and CMFI (though not sure what Aris has made for CMFI)).

Thanks for the kind words for my pixeltovarischi.  Well yeah I'll probably give CMBN a thought too, but I might not have the funds for the combined bundle + v3 upgrade right now, so I've put it for later.

[Chudacabra]

I prefer CMFI over CMRT. While I like RT, I don't enjoy playing as the Russians all that much and generally preferred the early war Eastern front scenarios from CMx1. I like CMFI because the forces are fun, and the maps generally provide a lot more variety than just bogs and fields.

[GSX]

Greetings, ladies and gents.

I've played CMBS and it is one of the best games I've ever played. Now I'm going to step into WW2 CM, and I don't really know which one of these two to choose.

I know, the question is going to have people shouting at me "Do you have any idea how different they are?!". Yes I do. I've played both demos, and I like both, despite the fact that their greatest similarity is both of them being called Combat Mission.  In CMBS, I liked both combined arms missions and infantry only missions, probably preferring combined arms missions (involving armour and mech infantry) by a rather small margin. I want to hear your opinions about these two games. I really like the Ostfront atmosphere, but recently I've developed a liking for CMFI after reading through the forums.

And by the way, are there any user-made Soviet campaigns for CMRT? I've looked at the mods section and at TSD, and all the campaigns I've seen have been German.

Thanks in advance. I figured that the CMRT forums were more active, and that's why I've posted it here.

Having both games I'd say the Italy one has much more variety.  Especially if you go for the GL option as well.  The RT game is good as well but for me it lacks something that I can't quite put my finger on where as FI has a whole varsity of Axis and allied units.

 

It really does depend what your into most, big tanks or smaller more unusual units and vehicles.

[Sublime]

If youre going to buy GL then get FI. If not get RT. Imo FI was meh until GL which made it an utterly different and well rounded game. You went from.just Sicily in a few mnths with US Germans and Italians to CW filled out Germans Italians and filled out US expanding from 43 to May 44. Winter combat etc. Really probably the single biggest game changing mod in the x2 series imo.

Just like any practicing grog East Fronts my fav but my statement stands. Somehow RT is good but didnt grip me like I thought it would. Im sure once it gets it.s module by the second half of 2026 it.ll really flesh it out.