116th Panzer Division "Wind Hund"

[AttorneyAtWar]

Any scenarios involving these guys?

I am currently playing a Command Ops 2 scenario that deals with there attempt to secure the crossing at Hotton, interesting stuff!

[Badger73]

Any scenarios involving these guys?

I am currently playing a Command Ops 2 scenario that deals with there attempt to secure the crossing at Hotton, interesting stuff!

Only one of which I'm aware. "The 28th Fights Back_Version 2.0""; a modder's scenario.

Allied Attack. 55+ Turns. Small map. Company sized battle. Infantry and Armor.  8 August 1944

USA 28th ID & 2nd AD vs GER 116th Panzer Division

Vigourous resistance by the Germans allows them to still hold the heights between Gathemo and Perrier.  For version 2.0 the force balance has been modified in order to allow allied players to get a victory without suffering great losses. Some terrain and foliage added to provide concealment and approach routes. Deleted some Axis assets and modified headcounts."

[AttorneyAtWar]

Only one of which I'm aware. "The 28th Fights Back_Version 2.0""; a modder's scenario.

Allied Attack. 55+ Turns. Small map. Company sized battle. Infantry and Armor.  8 August 1944

USA 28th ID & 2nd AD vs GER 116th Panzer Division

Vigourous resistance by the Germans allows them to still hold the heights between Gathemo and Perrier.  For version 2.0 the force balance has been modified in order to allow allied players to get a victory without suffering great losses. Some terrain and foliage added to provide concealment and approach routes. Deleted some Axis assets and modified headcounts."

I meant in CM: FB Badger but thanks I will check that scenario out.

[Aragorn2002]

Any scenarios involving these guys?

I am currently playing a Command Ops 2 scenario that deals with there attempt to secure the crossing at Hotton, interesting stuff!

I'm playing the very same scenario, Raptorx7. It sure is interesting. I've worked myself through the Return to St. Vith tutorial (great stuff on CCA 4th Arm Div) and a series of  Youtube tutorial movies and slowly getting the hang of this game. I'm also re-reading Guderian's book on the 116. Panzer and that makes the Greyhound Dash scenario even more enjoyable. I also hope that CMFB will cover the fighting around Hotton.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Aragorn2002

[Badger73]

I meant in CM: FB Badger but thanks I will check that scenario out.

Of course!  Mea culpa!  I forgot which thread I was in when posting.  You're very welcome anyway.

[AttorneyAtWar]

I'm playing the very same scenario, Raptorx7. It sure is interesting. I've worked myself through the Return to St. Vith tutorial (great stuff on CCA 4th Arm Div) and a series of  Youtube tutorial movies and slowly getting the hang of this game. I'm also re-reading Guderian's book on the 116. Panzer and that makes the Greyhound Dash scenario even more enjoyable. I also hope that CMFB will cover the fighting around Hotton.

What a coincidence, hopefully you fare better than me Aragorn...

Panzers from 1st battalion with the aid of bridging troops and armored pioneers were able to fight to the western side of the Hotton crossing, upon which the bridge blew up in there faces. I tried to construct the bridge over night, but to my horror I could spot the American reinforcements coming in from the north which included a lot of armor. In the end I was forced to retreat from the crossing, and my infantry in the center north and northeast were beginning to fold from a massive counterattack from the north west. There were not enough panzers to go around by the end of day 3 so I surrendered, lets see how you do!

[rocketman]

I'm also having a look at Command Ops 2 and very much like the game so far, especially the AI and the "no-turn-wego" mechanic. Steep learning curve as one has to think in a new and operational way and not micro manage (which I am prone to). I'm going to get the Market Garden as the first module and then one of the Bulge ones.

[rocketman]

I'm workiing on a scenario in Ouren/Sevenig on Dec 17th that feature the 116th PzDiv.

[Aragorn2002]

You've got my attention, Rocketman. Can you tell me a bit more about this scenario? Playable as the Germans, I hope?

Edited November 18, 2016 by Aragorn2002

[rocketman]

 

[simovitch]

On ‎1‎/‎25‎/‎2016 at 0:18 PM, rocketman said:

I'm also having a look at Command Ops 2 and very much like the game so far, especially the AI and the "no-turn-wego" mechanic. Steep learning curve as one has to think in a new and operational way and not micro manage (which I am prone to). I'm going to get the Market Garden as the first module and then one of the Bulge ones.

rocketman, I hope you do get the Bulge pack eventually. One of the scenarios I did for CO2 called "Stuck in the Teeth" covers the 116th Pz and 560th VG attack during the first few days of the offensive. It assumes that the bridge at Ouren was strong enough to carry the Mk IV's of the panzer regiment across the Our, contrary to what the commander considered as "too flimsy". A few US tank destroyers crossed it on the 16th and 17th so it's not out of the question. Here's a portion of the Map showing the at start positions of the Germans:

 

[rocketman]

8 minutes ago, simovitch said:

rocketman, I hope you do get the Bulge pack eventually. One of the scenarios I did for CO2 called "Stuck in the Teeth" covers the 116th Pz and 560th VG attack during the first few days of the offensive. It assumes that the bridge at Ouren was strong enough to carry the Mk IV's of the panzer regiment across the Our, contrary to what the commander considered as "too flimsy". A few US tank destroyers crossed it on the 16th and 17th so it's not out of the question. Here's a portion of the Map showing the at start positions of the Germans:

 

I will probably make that assumption as well regarding the bridges. As far as I have understood, the northen one was sturdier and the southern just a "stone arch". Also, I have two sources that it was the Mk V (Panther) Battalion that attacked Ouren, not Mk IV. Perhaps something to adjust in the CO2 scenario?

My scenario will be "semi-historical", but trying to get as close to real events as possible with what is doable in CM.

[Erwin]

Panther Games has an xnt marketing concept - they give away the CO2 core game for free, but you pay for each of the many add-on modules.  Note that their website is complex and non-intuitive so took some time to figure out.

I played the previous version - I think Crete was the last one.  The operational level where you give the operational commands but rely on your AI subordinates to do the tactical stuff is very interesting - and somewhat relaxing after the minutiae/micro management challenges of CM2.  It's a good game to go to when the periodic CM2 burn-out hits.  (Tell Kohenlau quick!)

And yes this could be a good operational level system to set up CM2 tactical battles. 

Edited November 19, 2016 by Erwin

[simovitch]

Also, I have two sources that it was the Mk V (Panther) Battalion that attacked Ouren, not Mk IV. Perhaps something to adjust in the CO2 scenario?

According to the unit history, The II Bn reported losses of 15 MkIV on December 16th (probably the losses outside of Lutzkampen), while I Bn reported no losses. So probably whatever tanks showed up above Ouren on the 17th were mostly from the I Bn PzV as you say since II Bn had only 8 operational tanks available. So it appears that II Bn was committed first and the CO2 scenario (semi-historical) assumes this. I Bn is available if the player starts the game requesting additional reinforcements.

[Combatintman]

On Sunday, 24 January 2016 at 10:11 PM, Raptorx7 said:

Any scenarios involving these guys?

I am currently playing a Command Ops 2 scenario that deals with there attempt to secure the crossing at Hotton, interesting stuff!

Yes - To Verdenne and Victory. It is one of my scenarios and is bundled with the game.

[Big Boss]

19 minutes ago, Combatintman said:

Yes - To Verdenne and Victory. It is one of my scenarios and is bundled with the game.

Playing that right now H2H and enjoining it very much. Good map with interesting forces.

[Bahger]

I wonder if anyone else is still in this thread, which I read through with some interest as I am on the seventh day out of eight, playing as the Allies, historical, realistic time delay.  I have to say, I’m proud of my management of this battle and I’m in firm control of about 70% of the objectives. Is it an easier battle to win as the Allies?

 

 

Edited August 31, 2020 by Bahger

[Combatintman]

15 hours ago, Bahger said:

I wonder if anyone else is still in this thread, which I read through with some interest as I am on the seventh day out of eight, playing as the Allies, historical, realistic time delay.  I have to say, I’m proud of my management of this battle and I’m in firm control of about 70% of the objectives. Is it an easier battle to win as the Allies?

 

 

I designed it - I wouldn't call it a balanced scenario but the challenges are similar for the Allied player.

[Bahger]

4 hours ago, Combatintman said:

I designed it - I wouldn't call it a balanced scenario but the challenges are similar for the Allied player.

Oh!  What a pleasure to meet you, then, thank you! I love this game, which I only discovered recently and am likely to put more hours into than all my other wargames combined. I’ve even read the manual from start to finish…twice!

This scenario is really well put together. The long time-span challenges the player to pay attention to operational tempo and to realise that overreaching with the initial allocation of forces (as Allies) can only expose his supply-lines and over-stretch his units. I ground out a defense around Soy, Beffe and Erezee.  If I hadn't set up a defense in one of the non-objective towns south of Erezee (Erpigny), I think the weight of the AI Axis advance on the north side of the river would have overrun Erezee, turned my left flank, and threatened Hotton.  I had an easier time on the other side of the river; I wonder whether blowing the bridge that you left conveniently primed in the south east corner influenced the AI's choice of route.  Again, on that side of the map I pressed south as far as I dared in order to set up a defensive screen without exposing myself to being outflanked.  Only by the fifth day could I feel the momentum shifting when I was able to secure Beffe with paratroop reinforcements attacking from woodland terrain, secure Erezee with reinforcements after two days of fierce fighting (although I still face skirmishes there) and mount an attack, laterally, into Amonines using reinforcements from the west while assaulting from the north the enemy forces just across the river that had stalled my previous, under-powered attempt to take and hold that objective with the available units.  Now that I have put the Axis offense on the back foot, I think the three objectives in the south-east corner of the map may be attainable in the 14 hours or so left of the battle.  This will make the difference between a minor victory and something more glorious, I suspect.

As always, constant attention to corps- and division-level artillery was crucial; I am hoping that the update addresses the need (as I see it, anyway) for the player to manage this in order to focus its firepower.  It's odd also that some AI attack maneuvres are led by battalion arty units but otherwise, of course, the AI is the glory of this superb game; I often watch in wonder as it organises itself for a battalion probe or attack and then adapts to what it finds, it's the best AI I've ever seen in a PC battlefield sim. 

I can see why the scenario might be harder when playing as Axis, if only because Axis forces must cover more ground and are constantly in the attack, whereas the Allies can dig in (once the player decides, crucially, exactly where to do so).  I will definitely replay the mission from the Axis side.  You're the man to ask about this: is the AI programmed to select from a variety of routes and plans so that every playthrough presents a different set of challenges to the player?  As I said, in my current playthrough as the Allies, the weight of the Axis assault has been to the north of the river, which, fortunately for me, suited my defense.  It left the long road along the south-west bank of the river essentially unused by the Axis, making it relatively easy, once I took Hampteau, to send a counter-attacking task force all the way down that road at the beginning of day seven.

Thanks again for you great work.  I've been on the Lock 'n Load forums and Steam but it never occurred to me that I'd strike gold at Battlefront.com, which, I believe, does not publish CO2?

Edited August 31, 2020 by Bahger

[Erwin]

Good to read such a glowing recommendation.  Will try Verdennes  - prob as the Axis as I enjoy attacking.  Thanx...

[Bahger]

17 minutes ago, Erwin said:

Good to read such a glowing recommendation.  Will try Verdennes  - prob as the Axis as I enjoy attacking.  Thanx...

I'd be interested to know what you think.  Is Verdennes another name for the CO2 scenario called Greyhound Dash?

[JyriErik]

Missed this one earlier, but there's a full campaign "Die Letzte Hoffnung" at the Scenario Depot.  https://www.thefewgoodmen.com/tsd3/combat-mission-battle-for-normandy/cm-battle-for-normandy-campaigns/campaign-die-letzte-hoffnung-v1-01/

 

 

Edited September 1, 2020 by JyriErik

[Combatintman]

10 hours ago, Bahger said:

Oh!  What a pleasure to meet you, then, thank you! I love this game, which I only discovered recently and am likely to put more hours into than all my other wargames combined. I’ve even read the manual from start to finish…twice!

This scenario is really well put together. The long time-span challenges the player to pay attention to operational tempo and to realise that overreaching with the initial allocation of forces (as Allies) can only expose his supply-lines and over-stretch his units. I ground out a defense around Soy, Beffe and Erezee.  If I hadn't set up a defense in one of the non-objective towns south of Erezee (Erpigny), I think the weight of the AI Axis advance on the north side of the river would have overrun Erezee, turned my left flank, and threatened Hotton.  I had an easier time on the other side of the river; I wonder whether blowing the bridge that you left conveniently primed in the south east corner influenced the AI's choice of route.  Again, on that side of the map I pressed south as far as I dared in order to set up a defensive screen without exposing myself to being outflanked.  Only by the fifth day could I feel the momentum shifting when I was able to secure Beffe with paratroop reinforcements attacking from woodland terrain, secure Erezee with reinforcements after two days of fierce fighting (although I still face skirmishes there) and mount an attack, laterally, into Amonines using reinforcements from the west while assaulting from the north the enemy forces just across the river that had stalled my previous, under-powered attempt to take and hold that objective with the available units.  Now that I have put the Axis offense on the back foot, I think the three objectives in the south-east corner of the map may be attainable in the 14 hours or so left of the battle.  This will make the difference between a minor victory and something more glorious, I suspect.

As always, constant attention to corps- and division-level artillery was crucial; I am hoping that the update addresses the need (as I see it, anyway) for the player to manage this in order to focus its firepower.  It's odd also that some AI attack maneuvres are led by battalion arty units but otherwise, of course, the AI is the glory of this superb game; I often watch in wonder as it organises itself for a battalion probe or attack and then adapts to what it finds, it's the best AI I've ever seen in a PC battlefield sim. 

I can see why the scenario might be harder when playing as Axis, if only because Axis forces must cover more ground and are constantly in the attack, whereas the Allies can dig in (once the player decides, crucially, exactly where to do so).  I will definitely replay the mission from the Axis side.  You're the man to ask about this: is the AI programmed to select from a variety of routes and plans so that every playthrough presents a different set of challenges to the player?  As I said, in my current playthrough as the Allies, the weight of the Axis assault has been to the north of the river, which, fortunately for me, suited my defense.  It left the long road along the south-west bank of the river essentially unused by the Axis, making it relatively easy, once I took Hampteau, to send a counter-attacking task force all the way down that road at the beginning of day seven.

Thanks again for you great work.  I've been on the Lock 'n Load forums and Steam but it never occurred to me that I'd strike gold at Battlefront.com, which, I believe, does not publish CO2?

I meant, I designed the To Verdenne and Victory scenario in CMFB - sounds like you're describing Command Ops 2 which I had no part in.

[Bahger]

My bad, DUH. Sorry, it’s time for me to slink away. 

[Combatintman]

19 hours ago, Bahger said:

My bad, DUH. Sorry, it’s time for me to slink away. 

Hang around mate - no dramas.