Russian army under equipped?

[Wicky]

Motorcycles will soon need to be modelled based on activities of Russian biker gang Night Wolves in Slovakia

https://spectator.sme.sk/c/20875133/biker-gang-complex-in-dolna-krupa-raises-questions.html

Quote

Aerial photos disclosed that the fence, two metres tall and lined by razor barbed wire, hides an actual military base – with tanks, armoured vehicles, a tank training area, as well as a space reminiscent of a shooting range.

Quote

In May, they published photos on Facebook boasting they already have a motorised battalion. 

Interesting concept for a scenario....

 

Edited August 13, 2018 by Wicky

[Sgt.Squarehead]

ROFL.....A couple of knackered T-55s does not really constitute a 'Motorized Battalion'. 

[Sublime]

Still...In sure the Hells Angels or Bandidos or somesuch over here would cream their jeans over a T54/55

 

Interestingly a documentary I watched on Putin roughly a decade ago had a lot of footage of him palling around with the leader and members of the N Wolves..

 

 

Anyone wonder if Putin has Wagner Group members fight N Wolves with bare hand to the death for his amusement?

Edited August 14, 2018 by Sublime

[panzersaurkrautwerfer]

 

On 8/6/2018 at 6:24 AM, AtheistDane said:

https://defence-blog.com/army/russian-armata-modern-tanks-production-delayed-due-high-cost.html

So it seems the Armata's introduction is being pushed back due to cost and in favor of upgrading T-72s, T-80s and T-90s instead. 

On one hand, it makes sense to take advantage of the large numbers of these tanks already in the Russian inventory. On the other hand, and if CM:BS is anything to go by, the capacity of these tanks particularly in terms of firepower and targeting but also protection will leave Russia well behind contemporary Western designs like the Abrams, Leopard 2 and Challenger 2. Hell, even the Chinese seem to be getting ahead of these tank models when looking at the performance of the Type-96B in the Tank Biathlon. 

What do you guys think?

I don't think the Armata was ever intended as a serious piece of hardware.  Least cynically, I think it was a test bed for some ideas for future tanks and upgrades.

More cynically it was a propaganda stunt to make it look like Russia's conventional forces are on the march to parity.  It never really made a lot of practical sense though (especially in light of the concept of it being a "universal" platform relative to available resource/production capability).  Russia's primary means of achiving it's national goals remain largely in the information warfare realm, use of proxies/unconventional forces (such as deniable assets), paired with a capable nuclear deterrent.

Armata is not the first, nor the last high tech "Abrams beater" or "F-22 killer" or other system that will exist in small amounts to give the perception of capability while the remainder of the Russian conventional forces serves mostly as a lower tier contingency/non-NATO neighbor beater force.

 

On 8/10/2018 at 1:06 PM, Sgt.Squarehead said:

There are already significantly more Armatas and T-90Ms in existence than there are BM Oplots. 

As discussed a few times, CMBS opted to inflate some capabilities that weren't too out there.  My gripe is not that T-90AMs, US APS, or the like made it in, it's that we didn't get the "real" force structures with more lower capability forces (like the actual M1A2 SEP v2s, more of the less capable Russian stuff etc).

On 8/13/2018 at 6:35 AM, Wicky said:

Motorcycles will soon need to be modelled based on activities of Russian biker gang Night Wolves in Slovakia

https://spectator.sme.sk/c/20875133/biker-gang-complex-in-dolna-krupa-raises-questions.html

Interesting concept for a scenario....

 

The use of proxies by the Russians is one of the more upsetting things they're working with now.  The issue isn't that the link between these proxies and the Russian government isn't known eight ways to Sunday, it's that the Russians remain convinced they will remain an asset that can be employed without it coming back to bite them ("THEY ARE JUST PATRIOTIC BIKERS FROM RUSSIA!" "Please stop shooting the Russian "mercenaries" we denied were attacking your troops America!").  

It's basically something that has allowed Russia to make bets that are normally too risky to dare (best case national aims achieved worst case a few dozen dead "civilians with airsoft gear").  The problem is it's worked in the short term because the national aims of Russia have been generally in places the west have been loath to send people to die over.  The issue will come when Russia makes a "safe" bet that in reality will be the trigger for more drastic retaliation, and what happens next will depend on who folds.  

[sburke]

6 minutes ago, panzersaurkrautwerfer said:

It's basically something that has allowed Russia to make bets that are normally too risky to dare (best case national aims achieved worst case a few dozen dead "civilians with airsoft gear").  The problem is it's worked in the short term because the national aims of Russia have been generally in places the west have been loath to send people to die over.  The issue will come when Russia makes a "safe" bet that in reality will be the trigger for more drastic retaliation, and what happens next will depend on who folds.  

And likely that drastic retaliation wouldn't be military in nature but an economic hit - probably targeting Russia's banks.  There was an article about Russian response to recent sanctions and the general lack of response.  The analyst position was at least part of the reason is Russia frankly lacks much ability to respond.  What the article didn't bring up, but it is pretty clear the best places to make trouble are where the West is in a delicate position - DPRK for example and flouting the sanctions there undermines the US geopolitically.

It remains to be seen what will happen with the push for Congress on the chemical weapons attack in the UK.  Perhaps Trump will simply ignore it, but Congress seems determined to exact a price, and potentially a severe one.

[Erwin]

12 hours ago, sburke said:

...wouldn't be military in nature but an economic hit - probably targeting Russia's banks.

+1   In addition, the UK is full of Russian oligarchs and their families cluttering up our finest schools.  Canceling their visas is a big threat.  London isn't the money laundering capital of the world for nothing.  All that illicit cash both holds up the UK economy and gives the UK a bigger than one would think stick.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

3 hours ago, Erwin said:

All that illicit cash both holds up the UK economy and gives the UK a bigger than one would think stick.

At present wielded by nincompoops. 

 

[HUSKER2142]

 

A little humor....

[panzersaurkrautwerfer]

2 hours ago, HUSKER2142 said:

 

A little humor....

Pfft.  My wife would have been pumped to tank.  She's a bit small to do manual loading but the rest is right up her ally (she's a country girl, shooting and off roading are kind of her thing).

On 8/14/2018 at 6:26 PM, sburke said:

And likely that drastic retaliation wouldn't be military in nature but an economic hit - probably targeting Russia's banks.  There was an article about Russian response to recent sanctions and the general lack of response.  The analyst position was at least part of the reason is Russia frankly lacks much ability to respond.  What the article didn't bring up, but it is pretty clear the best places to make trouble are where the West is in a delicate position - DPRK for example and flouting the sanctions there undermines the US geopolitically.

It remains to be seen what will happen with the push for Congress on the chemical weapons attack in the UK.  Perhaps Trump will simply ignore it, but Congress seems determined to exact a price, and potentially a severe one.

Again, my concern is stupid games and stupid prizes.  I don't think Russians realize how isolated they've become, nor how much weaker they are "alone."  It's not even a matter of sanctions at some point, its a matter of a bad harvest, or internal strife/crisis and Russia just doesn't have the strategic depth economically or politically to weather that well.  

[sburke]

9 minutes ago, panzersaurkrautwerfer said:

Again, my concern is stupid games and stupid prizes.  I don't think Russians realize how isolated they've become, nor how much weaker they are "alone."  It's not even a matter of sanctions at some point, its a matter of a bad harvest, or internal strife/crisis and Russia just doesn't have the strategic depth economically or politically to weather that well.  

Yeah true.  Part of being a mobster gov't is you've made it really weak and prone to factionalism.  Anything can cause it to totter, inability to pay your "boys", a young upstart that sees an opening, a failure in collections.  Or as we have seen recently, telling your older generation that you may have to cut their benefits.  If Russia doesn't figure it out soon they are likely to find themselves a vassal state to China.

[panzersaurkrautwerfer]

11 minutes ago, sburke said:

Yeah true.  Part of being a mobster gov't is you've made it really weak and prone to factionalism.  Anything can cause it to totter, inability to pay your "boys", a young upstart that sees an opening, a failure in collections.  Or as we have seen recently, telling your older generation that you may have to cut their benefits.  If Russia doesn't figure it out soon they are likely to find themselves a vassal state to China.

Try this one for size:

Who's after Putin?

The state really doesn't have anyone on the bench.  And from the not-state factions, well, they keep dying.  Somehow.

So Putin dies in a car crash. Not even a "car crash" just an errant Lada falls off a building onto his limo and explodes. 

Who steps up?

There's a few answers to that question.  But that's the problem, there system and means to put those folks into a position to be elected can be more than a little messy. 

[DMS]

9 hours ago, panzersaurkrautwerfer said:

Again, my concern is stupid games and stupid prizes.  I don't think Russians realize how isolated they've become, nor how much weaker they are "alone."  It's not even a matter of sanctions at some point, its a matter of a bad harvest, or internal strife/crisis and Russia just doesn't have the strategic depth economically or politically to weather that well.   

Guys, wake up, China is 1-st economy in the world now. We are not alone.

[DerKommissar]

Slapping sanctions is counter-productive to winning over hearts and minds. The West should have encouraged economic dependence, welcomed them happily into trade and maybe even security organizations. Instead, we rebuilt the Iron Curtain -- cutting off the exchange of goods and ideas. 

Speaking of China -- look at the SCO. They managed to get India and Pakistan to sit at one table and even wargame together. All the while, we're still bickering over human rights, alienating our partners and extinguishing any clout pro-West groups have in the East.

[Haiduk]

14 hours ago, panzersaurkrautwerfer said:

Who's after Putin?
 

In Ukraine many politics think that after Putin new Russian leader will more liberal and change politic on 180 degrees. Ha! Putin is already not a person, this is Russian archetype of "strong leader", "rule for enemies fear! " - like was singing in old Russian Empire anthem. "Collective Putin" reflects all complexes and desires of Russian nation: "May we will live in poverty, but let all fear a force of Holy Russia! We are Russians ! God with us!" Every Russian politic or military, wich will wear the mask of "collective Putin" will be a next leader. 

There is some information, that Sergey Ivanov, former chief of President's Administration  will be a successor, but in joke I think, the next president of Russia will be Ramzan Kadyrov. Soviet and Russian leaders are changing in next order: bald - hairy - bald - hairy. Putin is bald, so next one will hairy  After bald Vladimair Lenin was hairy Caucasian Josif Dzhugashvili (Stalin). The hystory is going on spiral, so maybe next president will be Caucasian, which give to Russians their beloved "strong hand" and new 1937. 

Edited August 16, 2018 by Haiduk

[HUSKER2142]

It is necessary to look among the former generals whom Putin dismissed from the army and appointed governors. At a fairly young age, they were once close to Putin. I'm betting on Alexey Dyumin, and I think Putin will leave 1-2 years ahead of schedule, leaving his successor.

Edited August 16, 2018 by HUSKER2142

[DerKommissar]

2 hours ago, Haiduk said:

like was singing in old Russian Empire anthem.

How do you know his grandsons won't inherit the throne? Seems like a logical extension of his Tsarist dream.

Here in Canada, we currently have a Junior in power. xD

 

[Battlefront.com]

21 hours ago, HUSKER2142 said:

A little humor....

Heh... was that "take your daughter to work day"?   Looks like she didn't like the smell of gunpowder very much!

On a serious note, this thread (and others like it) routinely veer off topic and into politics.  I try not to be too hard on the rules when people are being respectful of each other and not getting personal.  I think things are going OK at the moment, so this is just a reminder.

Steve

[HUSKER2142]

 

Well, it looks like a heavy BMP, 57 gun and supersonic ATGM.

[BTR]

Slightly hotter, completely assembled expo version. 

 

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Same vehicle, they just bolted all the bits on:

[DerKommissar]

That's some serious frontal armour spacing. I'm guessing the 57 is a grandchild of the S-60, and expected to handle air threats? Seems overkill for a battle-taxi.

I am surprised to see that the MG is mounted externally. Any peeks at the 125mm SPG version?

Mount this turret on it?

[HUSKER2142]

@DerKommissar

This machinegun for the commander, gunner has a machine gun to the right of  125mm gun. Apparently take into account the experience of urban battles.

 

P.S.  A question for developers, T-90AM will receive an update in form of T-90M with large-caliber machinegun module RCWS.

 

Edited August 23, 2018 by HUSKER2142

[Wicky]

Kalashnikov 13ft walking battle robot - the mind boggles

[Erwin]

In the next module for CMBS perhaps?

[HUSKER2142]

1 hour ago, Erwin said:

In the next module for CMBS perhaps?

As a static object must be required.