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lordhedgwich

How much would you pay?

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For 3.0 Shock Force? I never really cared for shock force till recently. I have been playing a lot of Black Sea and was somewhat bored with the lack of variety compared to shock force with its 3 Modules. I am enjoying it atm, but it is hard to get into due to how dated it looks and feels even compared to CMBN I personally would love to see Shock Force brought up to date with all features of CMBS (and CMBS UI) I would defiantly be willing to pay for it I suspect it would cost more than the usual engine upgrade due to how date SF feels and looks. How much would you guys be willing to pay for an upgrade? 

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I would defiantly be willing to pay for it I suspect it would cost more than the usual engine upgrade due to how date SF feels and looks. How much would you guys be willing to pay for an upgrade? 

I don't think BF can "upgrade" Shock Force since it is such an old game.  They would basically start over and create a new Shock Force that would be up-gradable as the newer CM games are.  There are some forum threads discussing this.  Shock Force is a great setting and with mods can portray many of the real world current events.  AIUI since this would have to be a new game (not just an-upgrade) I would happily pay $75 for it. 

CMSF is set in 2008 and that is a good starting point since BF already started there.   Now I know I'm dreaming a bit but .......... If BF could make a "new engine" 2008 Shock Force and then, over time, expand a new family of Middle Eastern games to include the Abrab / Israeli wars and also bring them forward to the present with ISIS etc., this would be really cool.  Also with the continuing conflicts in that region mod builders will probably always have new RL material for scenarios etc.                     

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I don't think BF can "upgrade" Shock Force since it is such an old game.  They would basically start over and create a new Shock Force that would be up-gradable as the newer CM games are.  There are some forum threads discussing this.  Shock Force is a great setting and with mods can portray many of the real world current events.  AIUI since this would have to be a new game (not just an-upgrade) I would happily pay $75 for it. 

CMSF is set in 2008 and that is a good starting point since BF already started there.   Now I know I'm dreaming a bit but .......... If BF could make a "new engine" 2008 Shock Force and then, over time, expand a new family of Middle Eastern games to include the Abrab / Israeli wars and also bring them forward to the present with ISIS etc., this would be really cool.  Also with the continuing conflicts in that region mod builders will probably always have new RL material for scenarios etc.                     

75 dollars would be reasonable considering all the work it would take

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For current Shock Force owners, about $50 since it would be a complete re-make.  For new Shock Force owners, $75 or whatever it is for the Red Thunder game/Black Sea game.

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I recall BFC had trouble with real world events messing up their plans while working on CMSF (and even more so with CMBS). It may be that history has finally caught up with the CMSF title. You can no more wage war against a unified Syrian state than you can invade Czechoslovakia. That ship has already sailed. I think Steve really really wants a CMSF reboot but events on the ground are simply not cooperating. Practically speaking, coming out with a 2007 timeline reboot game of a fictional war in 2017 seems like it would be a potential sales disaster.

The number of plausible nation-state tactical venues keeps shrinking. Do we invade Iran or Saudi Arabia next time? Egypt or Pakistan? And why would we? If you want a past-events modern desert war title you could always go back another four years to reboot CMSF as an Iraq invasion/occupation title. Talk about kicking a hornet's nest, though!

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hey I'd pay full price all over again to have CMSF in the 3.0 engine, but I can only speak for myself.  It is the only game that allows you to simulate some actual conflicts that have occurred be they Somalia, Afghanistan, Iraq etc.  That for many of us is it's primary allure.

If they want to do a reboot instead of simply a remake then yeah it gets more complicated.  Maybe a confrontation with Iran?  Let's face it, there simply aren't that many full on conflict scenarios out there.  If that is the only basis for a modern CM title, we are gonna be pretty short on material.  Afghanistan and Iraq scenarios are what I mostly spend my time with other than Chris' Panther campaign.  Syria fighting NATO in an of itself wasn't exactly the exciting draw.

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I've said it before but echoing sburke's comments - the wherewithal (NATO orbats, equipment, UNCONS) to do the recent COIN Ops in Iraq and Afghanistan already sits in CMSF, most of my CMSF scenarios have been based on these events (2 x Iraq scenarios and about half a dozen Afghan scenarios). For me the killer is making the maps ... so as a minimum just porting some features like the 'z' overlay into the editor and giving us things like bridges and water features would make a huge difference. While I would probably buy something related to Iran I would do flick flacks down the corridor just to get some more stuff in the editor so I'd deffo pay full price for something that gave me that ability.

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To have an up to speed CMSF (3.0 and upgradable) or a new version that makes it possible to make all kinds of scenarios in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria etc. Id pay a lot for that. Easily 75 dollars.

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Just curious...do the offers of $75 mean just the base game (CMSF), or what a remake of CMSF + its 3 modules would cost? I mean, 4 game-equivalents for $75 is a bargain.

I'm okay with just redoing it. CMSF brought up to the new engine, as opposed to trying to come up with a new storyline and location. If that's done, a remake, then what could stay:

1. The research into TO&E

What would have to be redone:

1. Every vehicle model, with all that implies.

2 Every animation (? maybe...not sure. But, soldier models would get redone.)

3. Every battle and campaign. (New engine means NOTHING could get imported. It'd all have to get redone, as far as I know. Maps, AI groups, victory conditions, testing for balance, etc.)

 

That's a lot of work, especially if it includes all the modules. Relevancy wouldn't matter to me, but it would to some. (I'm fine fighting a fictional 2007 war.) Then, how long would it be viable, especially if a new engine version gets developed? Each of the previous titles (CMBN, CMFI, CMRT, CMBS, CMFB)  would need to be "modernized", as well. (And folks would gripe about $10 for that.) 

I'm not sure there's a rational market based approach for BFC to invest in this type of project.

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Just curious...do the offers of $75 mean just the base game (CMSF), or what a remake of CMSF + its 3 modules would cost? I mean, 4 game-equivalents for $75 is a bargain.

I'm okay with just redoing it. CMSF brought up to the new engine, as opposed to trying to come up with a new storyline and location. If that's done, a remake, then what could stay:

1. The research into TO&E

What would have to be redone:

1. Every vehicle model, with all that implies.

2 Every animation (? maybe...not sure. But, soldier models would get redone.)

3. Every battle and campaign. (New engine means NOTHING could get imported. It'd all have to get redone, as far as I know. Maps, AI groups, victory conditions, testing for balance, etc.)

 

That's a lot of work, especially if it includes all the modules. Relevancy wouldn't matter to me, but it would to some. (I'm fine fighting a fictional 2007 war.) Then, how long would it be viable, especially if a new engine version gets developed? Each of the previous titles (CMBN, CMFI, CMRT, CMBS, CMFB)  would need to be "modernized", as well. (And folks would gripe about $10 for that.) 

I'm not sure there's a rational market based approach for BFC to invest in this type of project.

For 75 bucks i was thinking just upgrade to 3.0 engine but if they remade everything I would be willing to throw 100 bucks at it, but i think the wife would kill me if i spent 100 bucks on a game

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I`m happy with CMSF as it is.......;)

I would pay 100 euro for an upgrade to 3.0 engine plus........But to be honest I`m loving it as it is . My favorite CM sim :)

I really try to get into it but the CMBN and everything after just run so much better and are way more polished 

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I really try to get into it but the CMBN and everything after just run so much better and are way more polished 

yeah between the commands and terrain modification you can do in later titles I'd really like to see it brought up to date- in answer to Ken I would pay all over again as a brand new title. And yes I'd pay $75 for the base module.

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I'll be the sourpuss and say I'd rather they spend the time on a Black Sea module.

EDITED to add: IIRC, BFC has hinted that UNCONS are on the list for Black Sea. 

Edited by Vanir Ausf B

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With the amazing mods that are available for CMSF, one can already create good approximations of conflict in the region including Libya, Syria, Iraq etc. with conventional and unconventional forces.  We already have xnt red on red campaigns and scenarios.  Uncon forces have been well-modded.  ISIS would be an easy mod since they're using captured US vehicles etc.  What is missing are the Turkish forces & their M60 Patton Tanks, and some of the latest weapons systems.  The German, Brit and NATO CMSF vehicles would make good approximations of everything else.

I would be happy to see CMSF "simply" brought up to CM2 3.0 - with price points at around $25 for the base and $20 per module - say $85 for the entire set with the addition of at least 5 new professionally made campaigns.

A whole new game bringing it up to 2016 date would be worth a new CM2 "family" price - around $50 for the base and maybe $35/module. 

BF has to figure out the comparative customer bases/numbers for either an updated CMSF to 3.0 or a whole new game.

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Is it really necessary for the game to provide a back story?  Couldn't BFC just make a middle-eastern warfare sandbox game?  That seem to be what people actually did with Shock Force.  It's certainly what I did with Shock Force.  I don't recall players actually attempting to simulate the same hypothetical conflict provided by BFC, at least not frequently.  Same goes for the scenario outlined in CMBS.

So, BFC could just produce a sandbox game, call it "Powderkeg" or some such, and have it feature a few armies.  Say, the U.S., a couple of unconventional forces like the ones in the original Shock Force, and a generic middle eastern army or two, with assorted east block and/or western equipment, that properly configured and with a few mods/uniform choices could plausibly represent a number of different potential combatants.  Who is "blue" and who fights blue as "red" is up to the player.  Much like Shock Force really, but without the complications of BFC attempting to impose a story line.

Later modules could add more armies (Turkey, Britain, France, Egypt, Iran, what have you), without really needing to justify their battlefield presence according any story line.  They would just be more toys for the sandbox -- use them as you will.

Oh, and I would cheerfully shell out $75.  (Actually, I would pay far more, but don't tell my wife).

Edited by Rokossovski

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+1    If BF makes a new or upgraded CMSF2 base game + 3 modules that's gotta be worth at least $200 for the set given the extraordinary gameplay value one gets.  I must have saved thousands by no longer bothering to buy other computer (and cardboard) wargames that can no longer compete with the superb CM series.

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On 07/04/2016 at 7:27 AM, Rokossovski said:

Is it really necessary for the game to provide a back story?  Couldn't BFC just make a middle-eastern warfare sandbox game?  That seem to be what people actually did with Shock Force.  It's certainly what I did with Shock Force.  I don't recall players actually attempting to simulate the same hypothetical conflict provided by BFC, at least not frequently.  Same goes for the scenario outlined in CMBS.

So, BFC could just produce a sandbox game, call it "Powderkeg" or some such, and have it feature a few armies.  Say, the U.S., a couple of unconventional forces like the ones in the original Shock Force, and a generic middle eastern army or two, with assorted east block and/or western equipment, that properly configured and with a few mods/uniform choices could plausibly represent a number of different potential combatants.  Who is "blue" and who fights blue as "red" is up to the player.  Much like Shock Force really, but without the complications of BFC attempting to impose a story line.

Later modules could add more armies (Turkey, Britain, France, Egypt, Iran, what have you), without really needing to justify their battlefield presence according any story line.  They would just be more toys for the sandbox -- use them as you will.

Oh, and I would cheerfully shell out $75.  (Actually, I would pay far more, but don't tell my wife).

Definitely agree, there is no need of a back story, real world is moving so quickly that a middle east sandbox is the better choice for CMSF2. Allowing to simulate Irak, Syria, Lybia, Afghanistan, Yemen, Sudan, Nigeria. After trying CMBS demo, I am really looking forward to a CMSF2. I do not know why but I am hooked with this one since years perhaps thanks to Combatintman excellent scenarios. May be a battle pack or a module for each recent conflict will interest plenty of people.

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