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weapon2010

Tank Misidentification?

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It was pretty cool, but it came up with some nonsensical outcomes in CMBO sometimes. At the moment, a "tank" sound contact is definitely enemy. but no word on whether it could be a halftrack or a jagdtiger, so there's something of the same effect.

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It was pretty cool, but it came up with some nonsensical outcomes in CMBO sometimes. At the moment, a "tank" sound contact is definitely enemy. but no word on whether it could be a halftrack or a jagdtiger, so there's something of the same effect.

As you say, a PzIV, for example, will never be misidentified as a Tiger, but the "tentative contacts" (they have a lot more that generates them than just sound: they are "barely seen movement" and "memories" too) have four classes: infantry, transport, armour and light armour. Halfies are classed as light armour, so you'll never get a JagdTiger and a Hanomag showing the same "?" icon.

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so you'll never get a JagdTiger and a Hanomag showing the same "?" icon.

Ah, fair enough, but the point stands (and yeah, they're not just sound contacts)

With CMBO, there could be a physical representation (generic grey tank shape) of the enemy tank on the battlefield, and sometimes this would produce bizarre (sometimes to the extent of being implausible) results like seeing a supposedly friendly Sherman in the middle of an enemy panzer formation.

It was a great feature, but I can understand the logic of dropping it - quite a few things have been dropped that (apparently) didn't work quite as well as intended between the game lines.

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Maybe it´s somewhat problematic due to the relative spotting system, as well as in CMX2 rather high poly 3D models need to be swapped and kept in preparation for any such misidentifications. Also according to the "Fury" movie we could see lots of "funny" situations to happen. :P

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It's be nice if they could code it to work with relative spotting. i.e. Multiple units could misidentify any one particular unit. If you click on Green squad A then you see a Tiger, if you click on Green squad B then you see a MkiV. Veteran squads would have less chance to misidentify but distance will always play a role in % of misidentification.

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It's be nice if they could code it to work with relative spotting. i.e. Multiple units could misidentify any one particular unit. If you click on Green squad A then you see a Tiger, if you click on Green squad B then you see a MkiV. Veteran squads would have less chance to misidentify but distance will always play a role in % of misidentification.

Frankly, that sounds like a lousy idea, and I'm glad this feature has not made its way back into CMx2.

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The question is how often did any misidentifications really happen and how to find credible sources who give any sort of confirmation? From all what I read about that matter I think all sides were fairly well informed about the enemies tank and vehicle types, particularly the most common ones. That many US soldier stories tell about german Tigers, 88, Schmeisser, Spandau, Sniper ect. has more something to do with soldier slang than with lack of knowledge about a particular enemy weapon system. That´s where that Fury movie failed so miserably.

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The question is how often did any misidentifications really happen and how to find credible sources who give any sort of confirmation? From all what I read about that matter I think all sides were fairly well informed about the enemies tank and vehicle types, particularly the most common ones. That many US soldier stories tell about german Tigers, 88, Schmeisser, Spandau, Sniper ect. has more something to do with soldier slang than with lack of knowledge about a particular enemy weapon system. That´s where that Fury movie failed so miserably.

hmmm, I'd say you'd part right. Slang and lack of precision was a part, but fear and mythology was another. Countless reports of tigers ended up being panzer IVs and many German ATGs were misidentified as 88s. These were not imprecision or slang but reactions to things that had a more powerful impact on the person experiencing them than they expected, so they amplified what must be causing it. 

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Frankly, that sounds like a lousy idea, and I'm glad this feature has not made its way back into CMx2.

Actually it was an awesome feature and the reality of what happened in WWII. Quite honestly I think that the current identification system to be completely unrealistic. There's no way in hell a unit is going to 100% identify what type of tank they see, especially at long ranges, especially with the naked eye, especially when tanks are camouflaged with branches and shrubs. Units with Binocs and scopes should be able to refine they're identification over time. That's they way it was and the way it should be.

In prep for CMFB, I'm re-reading some books on the bugle. In the defense of Loshiemergraben, direct quotes from U.S. troops keep describing "Tiger tanks" when in fact, through historical research, the author has stated that the tanks seen by these troops were in fact Stug III or other assault guns. In order to mis-identify a Tiger tank from a SP gun is a pretty major difference. And these were not mis-identifications from great distances. Yet it happened time after time. Whether it was the confusion of battle, abstraction, generalization, exaggeration or whatever - oral and written records prove that it happened.

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I don't know how it worked in CM1 but I would prefer if the guessed contacts would not always be almost precisely where the units really appear later. If the contact is a sound contact and further away, then the area where the unit could be should be much larger.

I would also prefer if the gun's calibre and length could not be IDed so easily. And also less info about infantry and inflicted casualties would be good.

Edited by CarlWAW

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I don't know how it worked in CM1 but I would prefer if the guessed contacts would not always be almost precisely where the units really appear later. If the contact is a sound contact and further away, then the area where the unit could be should be much larger.

I would also prefer if the gun's calibre and length could not be IDed so easily. And also less info about infantry and inflicted casualties would be good.

CMx1 would just show you a generic looking tank graphic and wouldn't really show any information about model or capabilities.

I agree with you about the gun calibre. I'd bet the Germans had a tough time telling the difference between and M10 and M36. Same chassis with only a slightly different turret and a big difference in the gun. 

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Frankly, that sounds like a lousy idea, and I'm glad this feature has not made its way back into CMx2.

I concur with LukeFF.  I think an unintended consequence would make the game less fun to play and alienate CMx2 game newcomers.  It's easy to forget how intimidating the game UI is when you first begin.

I opine that a better solution for the gimlet-eyed and jaded, er, "more Veteran" players among us would be a Contact Icon mod to accomplish this for those who wish for it.

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Not sure how this would make it less fun, I had plenty of fun with cm1, and never gave it a 2nd thought in terms of confusion as to what it meant the first time I encountered it.

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