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weapon2010

Spreading Fire?

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There´s lots that can catch fire. Buildings, forests, grass, not just in summer environments and now with flame weapons added, the more. Don´t forget the Xmas tree and candles, so be careful! :D

With fire comes smoke and the likely burden on the CPU when it comes to visibility, particularly with CMX2 relative spotting system. Then the special rules with AS on fire and unit accessability. In CMX1 these were inaccessible and units got thrown out so to say, IIRC. So my guess would be it´s way down on the BFC to do list.

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There´s lots that can catch fire. Buildings, forests, grass, not just in summer environments and now with flame weapons added, the more. Don´t forget the Xmas tree and candles, so be careful! :D

With fire comes smoke and the likely burden on the CPU when it comes to visibility, particularly with CMX2 relative spotting system. Then the special rules with AS on fire and unit accessability. In CMX1 these were inaccessible and units got thrown out so to say, IIRC. So my guess would be it´s way down on the BFC to do list.

Excellent point. I guess I never really considered the implications a raging fire would have on relative spotting.

Although I grant that spreading fire should be down on the list of priorities, I still want it. At least I can now understand where the issues lie.

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Excellent point. I guess I never really considered the implications a raging fire would have on relative spotting.

 

Or more importantly, pathfinding for AI player.

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Remember you're not just requesting one thing. You're requesting a cascading series of complex behaviors. If fire grows and spreads then the AI has to have infantry, AT guns, etc react in a logical manner. Its like pulling a single thread on a piece of weaving, the whole fabric might inadvertently unravel in the process.

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They already dont react in a logical manner many times (although AI trigger slightly improved that).

What exactly are you talking about? Be specific. This topic is about spreading fire, so if AI doesn't react in a logical manner in your opinion, what exactly do you mean? And I'm not sure how an AI trigger helps in any way with regards to the topic at hand.

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Things like lying in the open while cover is near, taking strange routes (ignoring your WP's) and exposing themselfes, Tank crews who attack crack infantry with their pistols...the list goes on. So a bit illogic behavior with fire and smoke is not that huge.

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Things like lying in the open while cover is near, taking strange routes (ignoring your WP's) and exposing themselfes, Tank crews who attack crack infantry with their pistols...the list goes on. So a bit illogic behavior with fire and smoke is not that huge.

Some is surely known problems (Rambo tank crews) that likely get fixed soon, while others is the way the game, or unit orders are supposed to work (path finding related to unit behaviors).

More fire and smoke would surely add to eye candy and immersion, but tactically it would not add really much. A burning place likely has taken some beating with HE or flame weapons before, making it already untenable for any units in there more or less. Could BFC implement fire and smoke plain technically? They surely can, but at the expense that many of us need to toggle it off during game play, in order to still get acceptable frame rates. Wonder if any the great military powers on this planet with their billion dollar budgets, give fire and related smoke a serious consideration in their military training simulators?

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Likely to get fixed soon ?

I posted about that problem 3 years ago and it is still not fixed so forget about "soon".

And today we have PC so powerful to play games like ArmA3, why should fire and smoke give us bad framrates in CMx2 ?

Because the engine cant handle it ? Then its time for a new one.

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Graphics are not the issue.  I can cover a map in smoke if I want to.

Argument that pathfinding is bad in game (actually it is pretty good, and always being worked on) so why not make it worse is rather stupid, some might even say trollish.

Edited by akd

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Likely to get fixed soon ?

I posted about that problem 3 years ago and it is still not fixed so forget about "soon".

And today we have PC so powerful to play games like ArmA3, why should fire and smoke give us bad framrates in CMx2 ?

Because the engine cant handle it ? Then its time for a new one.

I did play and mission edited Arma I and II (Iron Front) quite a lot in the past and even started scripting, incl. placing the fire FX scripts and such. IIRC that was just a visual FX and required further scripting to make that FX even noticed by the players, incl. the AI ones. Can´t recall if that ever had any effects on line of sight, or anything else beside beeing mere eye candy. So did that change for ARMA 3 in the meantime? Do you know of any users reporting frame rate drops?

Well I can´t afford a powerfull PC at the moment (as one can see from my sig) and I will not invest into one just for beeing able to see the latest and greatest visual FX in any game.

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Well I can´t afford a powerfull PC at the moment (as one can see from my sig) and I will not invest into one just for beeing able to see the latest and greatest visual FX in any game.

And we should suffer because of that ?

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And we should suffer because of that ?

Lol, off course not. :D If BFC develops CMX to something requiring Win10+ and the very latest hardware, that´ll surely motivate me to shift my financial priorities. I wouldn´t consider upgrading for ARMA3 in example.

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I think you're arguing about perfect fire or nothing. But it really wouldn't need to be a perfect fire simulation. A little goes a long way.

Let's say you fire a flamethrower at a building. That should make the building catch fire and become impassable and un-enterable. This would be compatible with the current AI. Why? Because we already have such effects that make a place un-enterable.

Top stories of houses can be ruined and impossible to enter. Big bomb craters cannot be entered. Blown bridges cannot be crossed. So, what's to prevent BF in making a fire animation that continues to create smoke, marking the building as impossible to enter, and that's that? Would be great for immersion... feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

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I think you're arguing about perfect fire or nothing. But it really wouldn't need to be a perfect fire simulation. A little goes a long way.

Let's say you fire a flamethrower at a building. That should make the building catch fire and become impassable and un-enterable. This would be compatible with the current AI. Why? Because we already have such effects that make a place un-enterable.

Top stories of houses can be ruined and impossible to enter. Big bomb craters cannot be entered. Blown bridges cannot be crossed. So, what's to prevent BF in making a fire animation that continues to create smoke, marking the building as impossible to enter, and that's that? Would be great for immersion... feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

I generally agree with you, but I have no idea if BFC would be open for some compromises with smoke and fire FX. We already have burning & smoking vehicles, which is also more or less eye candy, but these fires do not burn for a longer time IIRC (20-30 minutes at max?). Currently we get a number of micro fires in buildings, in grass ect., so I assume this is already sort of compromise. Only BFC knows if implementing more fire & smoke is worth any efforts now. Maybe something to think about for game engine V4.

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I generally agree with you, but I have no idea if BFC would be open for some compromises with smoke and fire FX. We already have burning & smoking vehicles, which is also more or less eye candy, but these fires do not burn for a longer time IIRC (20-30 minutes at max?). Currently we get a number of micro fires in buildings, in grass ect., so I assume this is already sort of compromise. Only BFC knows if implementing more fire & smoke is worth any efforts now. Maybe something to think about for game engine V4.

It goes without saying that in the end, it's BFC's decision... I'm just a random player with a lot of ideas, and I like to share them. That doesn't mean I demand anything from anyone. Everybody is free to disagree or have other ideas.

But it seems to me that many times, ideas are dismissed by players on the forum simply because people think they are too difficult to implement *perfectly*, when a limited implementation would still be very nice. Fire is one such idea. Vehicle tracks is another..

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I have a vague memory of fire's impact in CMBB and I'd love to see it implemented in CMx2 -- even if imperfectly (I very much agree with Bulletpoint's comment on the "all or nothing" issue). The potential for impacts on LOS and movement seems significant, no?

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How would you handle vehicle tracks in a PBEM match?

Could they be spottable decals wether permanent or they faded out (semi permanent) after a certain time depending if the effect has an impact on action spot processing.

 

Edited by Wicky

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