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New Gameplay features ?

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Dear native English speakers: please remember that much is lost in translation. And much more in discourse culture.

What may sound insulting or aggressive in English may be quite normal in other languages. To get the tone right is very, very difficult in another language. Just try to imagine to do this discussion in your second language. Yes, I dare you to try a post and see what the natives make of it! ;)

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Dear native English speakers: please remember that much is lost in translation. And much more in discourse culture.

What may sound insulting or aggressive in English may be quite normal in other languages. To get the tone right is very, very difficult in another language. Just try to imagine to do this discussion in your second language. Yes, I dare you to try a post and see what the natives make of it! ;)

Yes, but I presume that native German speakers can, over time, learn? :D  Wiggum15 certainly has had plenty of people telling him, over and over again, that he's an aggressive, intolerant, unrealistic, and thoroughly unpleasant poster on this forum.  Yet his posting style hasn't changed a bit.  That seems to indicate a learning disability, which I suppose is a legitimate reason to give him a break. 

However, he also shows absolutely no interest in the viewpoint of others unless they are in agreement with his mindset (and actually few are to the extent he claims).  To me this is clearly not a cultural issue or one of non-native speaking.  Wiggum15 is someone who believes the world should revolve around his personal point of view and to Hell with everybody else.  As someone who has communicated with thousands of customers in dozens of languages over almost 20 years I do think I can tell the difference.

OK, so there's basically four schools of thought expressed in this thread:

1.  CMFB doesn't need new features to be an enjoyable game.

2.  It would be nice if CMFB had at least a few new features.

3.  CMFB really needs something significantly new to be attractive.

4.  CMFB needs to be better than anything EA makes and have brand new features added every year for the next 10 years for free. 

Wiggum15 has always been, and likely will always be, in the #4 group.  It's a lonely group, but he seems happy there even though we'll never give him 1/10th of what he demands at any price, not to mention free.  Which means he "pushes us" only in terms of our patience.  Otherwise he's ignored because he isn't relevant.

Of the other three groups, I don't have any disagreements with them.  The CMx2 engine is not done being evolved, however the Bulge was more work than we anticipated and so we had to funnel our energies into activities other than new features.  I know, I know, I know... people like Wiggum15 think that everything that is in CMFB took a couple of days to get in the game, therefore we should have had plenty of time to create other features, but that's not how it works.

Will CMx2 see more game engine development?  Absolutely.  Will it be 1/10th of what Wiggum15 thinks should have been in the game since 2007?  Absolutely not because such expectations are just silly.  Might as well ask us to toss in a feature for World Peace while he's at it.

As with any game we have ever released, and will ever release, people who want it can buy it.  Those who do not think they want it can pass on it.  Maybe some will reconsider and purchase the game at a later date, maybe not.  It's a free market and therefore we're absolutely fine with the full range of responses to any game we put out.  No hard feelings ;)

Steve

 

Edited by Battlefront.com

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$ 55 for two campaigns and some scenarios? No thanks.

If the campaigns are well done and there is say ,twenty very good scenarios, thats almost worth the

money right there. Ever tried making really good scenarios? Its a lot of work.

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He's referring to a game that doesn't allow you to play anything but the AI.

Oh, yeah...

That game.

The one that has the shortest total play time of anything that I've ever bought.

Not 'cause I wasn't winning.

'Cause I got bored of the gameplay and annoyed at too many design choices, and because I felt the realism was too patchy as compared to CM.

And, modded CM looks better in most ways to me, with some stock things like infantry looking better out of the box.

Sorry, Charlie.

BS.

Edited by Macisle

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CMFB covers one my favourite parts of WW2 (autumn 1944, western front), so I won´t pass it, even if it´s not a lower price module of CMBN and has not that many new features or improvements, as I´d possibly wish. My hopes for something more "revolutionary" remain for the future, although one can take CM as a revolution in itself since its first appearance, as there´s neither any alternative nor any competitor with regards to what it delivers since. B) GT Mius? It doesn´t really interest me as I´m not interested in RT only play and doesn´t offer a battle or map editor like CM does.

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If the campaigns are well done and there is say ,twenty very good scenarios, thats almost worth the

money right there. Ever tried making really good scenarios? Its a lot of work.

Couldn't agree more. Have you seen some of these new CMFB maps? Gorgeous. That steady, incremental improvement in map quality from title to title is not something a company could put on the box as a "new feature," but it's there. A very real improvement, that has very many man-hours behind it. Plus, we get streams... a new and different type of battle environment...  in a historical context that has always excited many customers... lots of new vehicles... lots of new formations... and more.

Anyone who posts here has significant interest in the CMx2 games, obviously, and has probably spent more hours than he'd care to admit inside of BFC's battlefields. I know I have. A quick, back-of-napkin calculation shows me that I've paid maybe a nickel per hour to play these 3 titles plus their modules. What else can a person do for a nickel an hour? For what these games cost, is it not an absolute bargain for most anyone who'd even care enough to spend time around here?

Many people don't agree with that type of analysis, but... I guess we'll all vote with our wallets?

Edited by sttp

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Will be buying on the first day of release. Keep up the great work Battlefront. You are really the only one providing this type of tactical war-gaming experience to us grogs. Any competition is in the minor leagues compared to Combat Mission.

My only complaint is you don't release enough content for me to spend more money with you. I'd take France 1940 or early Eastern Front in a heartbeat engine upgrades or not.

As to the naysayers? Can they point to better products? No.

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I really want this Bulge game. The setting is fascinating. My grandfather was in the battle, attached to the 84th Infantry Division. So a CM game set during the Bulge? Yes please!

I can understand why some might be disappointed though. CM can be so time consuming to play. There are already an enormous amount of campaigns and scenarios in the other CM games. Some people just don't have time to play all that. So why purchase CMFB when it's mostly just more campaigns/scenarios? 

There are a ton of other scenarios in the other games I haven't even touched yet. That's not gonna stop me from getting CMFB though. :)

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If the campaigns are well done and there is say ,twenty very good scenarios, thats almost worth the

money right there. Ever tried making really good scenarios? Its a lot of work.

This is a tragedy - you do not have other arguments to defend a product? There will be new maps, scenarios? and I have to spend 55 bucks? if it was a module I did not complain - but it is a separate game, so I have a right to expect something new?

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This is a tragedy - you do not have other arguments to defend a product? There will be new maps, scenarios? and I have to spend 55 bucks?

No you don't HAVE to spend anything.

J Bennet was just stating what is important to him.  The fact that it includes new material that is hard to come by makes it worthwhile to him.  How come his opinion isn't just as valid when it comes to what he places importance on?

As it is yes there is more, you well know that.  You already have some idea of what CMFB includes and yes for you that may not be enough to warrant $55.  Fair enough, but no one is making you buy it.

What is tragedy is the level of hyperbole going on.  We all have a general idea what we can expect in a new release.  This many years into it you'd think we could have a different discussion when a new release is coming instead of the "sky is falling, how could they make me buy this" threads that invariably come up.

Try doing a 5x5 km map in detail with flavor items based on a period overlay of some of the iconic battles of the period.  This will be by far the best release yet for that sort of thing.  For some folks that level of labor is what they want to buy.  Is that a feature?  Not in the strictest sense of what we usually refer to in software terms.  Is it an item that represents a lot of labor time that many players really appreciate having?  Absolutely.  (on the other hand the overlay is an actual new feature that CMSF never had).  Then there are the meticulously researched ToEs, some folks, myself included are nowhere near versed in that level of detail and I am amazed at the depth of knowledge of some of the contributors to that aspect.  Does that have no value?  Then there is the continual cry for tank riders in the Western front . I guess we are all so jaded now having them on the Eastern Front that it no longer matters- and yet that also meant a lot of labor for BF.. God help me I am partly drawn to this community because I figure the pursuit of historical information would make them more open minded and appreciative of the finer details.  Damn was I ever wrong.

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At the risk of sounding too blunt, I really don't see what the problem is? I mean, I certainly don't buy every game that is released, from any company, unless it interests me and CM being the simulation type game that it is, I would assume that most purchases hinge on which front a release represents. So I don't see what the huge tragedy is if you don't feel like the game is worth it. I generally would not feel the need to announce what items I don't intend on purchasing, but I could be the minority.

At the end of the day, everyone has to decide if they think something is interesting enough to buy, it doesn't seem like something worth getting so worked up about.

Edited by Nine-Oh

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 Thanks for your reply. What I personally didn't like is that most of QB maps ported from CMRT to CMBS didn't fit the situation, first because they were seen already in a previous game and second because most of them didn't fit the modern setting, and this was marked especially by road and buildings layouts.

At the same time I do realize how difficult and time consuming it is to create a new map from scratch. And while I recognize that some maps could fit the game and the temptation to port them all is very strong, I would personally prefer less maps but more fit rather than many not fitting very well.

Edited by Kieme(ITA)

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I think Steve has very politely explained BFC's position regarding CMFB. We the customer are now left to decide whether we want to buy it or not. 

I would just like to offer him one piece of advice, forget World Peace it ain't gonna sell, mate.

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No you don't HAVE to spend anything.

J Bennet was just stating what is important to him.  The fact that it includes new material that is hard to come by makes it worthwhile to him.  How come his opinion isn't just as valid when it comes to what he places importance on?

As it is yes there is more, you well know that.  You already have some idea of what CMFB includes and yes for you that may not be enough to warrant $55.  Fair enough, but no one is making you buy it.

What is tragedy is the level of hyperbole going on.  We all have a general idea what we can expect in a new release.  This many years into it you'd think we could have a different discussion when a new release is coming instead of the "sky is falling, how could they make me buy this" threads that invariably come up.

Try doing a 5x5 km map in detail with flavor items based on a period overlay of some of the iconic battles of the period.  This will be by far the best release yet for that sort of thing.  For some folks that level of labor is what they want to buy.  Is that a feature?  Not in the strictest sense of what we usually refer to in software terms.  Is it an item that represents a lot of labor time that many players really appreciate having?  Absolutely.  (on the other hand the overlay is an actual new feature that CMSF never had).  Then there are the meticulously researched ToEs, some folks, myself included are nowhere near versed in that level of detail and I am amazed at the depth of knowledge of some of the contributors to that aspect.  Does that have no value?  Then there is the continual cry for tank riders in the Western front . I guess we are all so jaded now having them on the Eastern Front that it no longer matters- and yet that also meant a lot of labor for BF.. God help me I am partly drawn to this community because I figure the pursuit of historical information would make them more open minded and appreciative of the finer details.  Damn was I ever wrong.

in this forum written to me that I can not expect improvements in modules, because there are only new models and scenarios - now we have a NEW GAME, so map / scenario can not justify the lack of improvements.


and one more thing, I do not care for what the game engine is created, what it is its version etc. (or problems publisher) - it's not my problem - I want to get improved product - if you are enough to play only new maps / scenarios - well.......... the less you expect, the less you get

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I want to get improved product

Apparently there is only so much a main programmer and a supporting programmer can do.

So if you want an improved product, there is little choice but to wait. For all of us.

I do not think BFC keep anything from you out of mean spirit.

Best regards,
Thomm

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Battlefront is still the only company which can and care to deliver a 3D squadbased tactical wargaming product.

I think, that the problem is that, we, who are not satisfied deem CMFB as a wasted energy of Battlefront's development team. I definitely acknowledge that, in CMBF, there is a lot of new content with a LOT of work behind it, but we crave a new gaming experience not more content.

Nobody forces us to spent money on CMFB, but we are upset because we actually want to spent our money, yet there is nothing we can spent it on. And a new CM line means that there will be even more content created for that line. As Waclaw said, we have been told that the module system is here to introduce new content without engine improvements and now we have here a whole new game which does exactly that.

CMSF and CMBN are the only finished CMx2 games, so there are probably modules coming for all other CMx2 games and now CMBF, which didn't improve the engine, and which will get its own modules, i.e. we are loosing hope we will ever get CMx3 or significantly improved CMx2.

Best regards.

edit:

I can see why BF lacks the impetus to try something new. I know that BF had to withstand a ****storm from the fanbase after they moved from CMx1 to CMx2. And that the long time period of patching CMSF without making any money had to be extremely tough, just compare it to the last few years when they could chug new content twice a year and cash-in heavily. In their shoes, I would never again consider to make a something new with player base which throws money at the screen without any demand for new engine or significant changes to original engine. 

 

Edited by kulik

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I can't see a big problem myself.  I went to the pub on Saturday with the wife and spent about 60 pounds for 4 hours drinking time. Now in that time I had a good laugh and  did some daft things.  Now I was willing to pay that just for a few pints, I expect CMFB will give me more that 4 hours of play time so for £40 it's a winner.  I mean really look at fifa every year they trundle out a 'new' game at the cost of 55 quid and it's not new it's just the old title with a few added bells and whistles and that's one of the biggest gaming companies around.  The CM team is tiny compared to them and I would say they have put out more new content, with quality, compared to EA's pathetic fifa dirge.  As has been said previous, you no likey, no buyie.

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...

CMSF and CMBN are the only finished CMx2 games, so there are probably modules coming for all other CMx2 games and now CMBF, which didn't improve the engine, and which will get its own modules, i.e. we are loosing hope we will ever get CMx3 or significantly improved CMx2.

A reasonable fear.

My fear is the converse - that work on a CMx3 engine will preclude me ever seeing France 1940 or Barbarossa 1941 in the new ( whichever that is :unsure: ) engine.

So, while there are engine/gameplay niggles that I would love to see ironed out, I'd rather have more content ( ie. to me, the engine and gameplay is good enough that I would like to see/experience more time periods covered. )
Each to their own though.

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Let's link to this thread when Wiggum complains about the price to upgrade all his content to the next engine...with whatever improvements it may bring.  

For everyone else, look at what CMFB offers and decide if it's worth the cost. No need for angst...

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No its not.

It would be a analogy if i had to pay weekly to stay in your house and you would serve me the same meal 3 times a day for weeks and i start complaining.

Seriously yes this is BFC's forum but they are a company selling a product, i paid then most like over 150$ since 2007 so yes i think i have aright to critic their products.

 

Ok so I was thinking on how best to use an analogy to explain what you are perceived as doing and how it might come across to English native speakers...

 

So let’s think as BF as a fantastic place to eat. Call it a great steak house (sorry for any Veggies out there). They serve Steak and do it in different styles. It is the best Steak house in town if not the world and has won awards for the different steak meals it cooks up.

Now attached to the dining area is the lobby or bar where people hang out and drink and wait for their meal. People who come into that area are there because they know how good the food is and that they are waiting for the next meal. The bar is owned and paid for by BF.

So into the bar comes someone who has had a good meal in the past and enjoyed it but now before trying the next meal (and with no intention of buying the next meal) they start saying how bad the next meal (new menu item) will be and that how disappointed they are with the planned new item on the menu. They are of course welcome to their opinion, but would you really rock up to the place in front of  other customers and start pissing all over the floor saying how poor and bad the next item was?

You are not the chef, you don’t own the place and you feel you have the right to piss all over the floor just because you have eaten there before?

Yes you are a critic but critics have their own places to post reviews and that is not in the forum (bar) of the restaurant.

Constructive feedback is always welcome, and if you would change your tone and language you will sound less of a pissed drunk.

If people continue as "drunks" at what point would you think the owners would say time to leave?

Just my 2p on it and I hope it gives you some insight as to why some people are giving you a hard time.

Happy Christmas

:)

(Now I will go back to drinking in the bar waiting for the new menu item to be open to consume...)

 

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