Maybe it's me but...

[sonar]

People talking about whats next for CMRT. Well, seems like it's a big thing getting the ss, and  a bit snow but in reality whats the difference between a Wehrmacht co as opposed to an ss co, apart from a few minor insignia changes. I would rather see work going into refining the infantry battle, which to me is where the most notable failings in the game reside and also the quick battle system, which is inconsistent in it's results to put it politely. While i'm on a grump, i'd say the whole battlefront community has gone into a bit of a slump since the new engine was introduced.  I will say, the modders communities quality and output is amazing and yet,scenarios are like hens teeth and it seems like there is nothing much to say on the forums in as much as it seems like the new engine isn't inspiring the same kind of debate that we had in the days of CMBB. Maybe it's  just me...? I don't mean to sound harsh, i still love  battlefronts ethos, and will follow on regardless. I just feel there is something missing from the picture and that there is an "almost there" feel about the game for me at the moment.

[Bulletpoint]

I agree with you about the first part.

About scenarios, well, I tried designing one, and spent a long time on it, but I only found very little interest in it once I released it, and only got feedback from a couple of people. Maybe that's because it's a scenario for single player, for CMBN, and probably most people have moved on from that.

[kevinkin]

Yes, the QB system has been talked about at length. I don't know were it resides on the priority list but player concern have been voiced and noted. 

Slump? I joined with the CMBB beta but after AK had to give up wargaming due to a career choice and returned last year after retirement. Overall, I think the quantity of posts and scenarios are down vs the early 2000's but the quality is up. There is a lot of passion for the franchise for sure. Numbers are useful but do not tell the whole story. Designers have the tools, but scenarios are time consuming to release. More so than CM1. Players may shy away from the commitment after a couple of tries with little feedback as Bulletpoint mentions.  

Kevin

 

 

 

[Bud Backer]

I agree with you about the first part.

About scenarios, well, I tried designing one, and spent a long time on it, but I only found very little interest in it once I released it, and only got feedback from a couple of people. Maybe that's because it's a scenario for single player, for CMBN, and probably most people have moved on from that.

Getting feedback is a challenge in general. There was an extensive thread here started by Umlaut about that issue. It's unfortunate because it can be quite discouraging, and interest or appreciation hard to gauge.
 

[kohlenklau]

Well sonar, it starts with you I say!  

Bust out a scenario. Start very, very small, use the guide from JonS. Have fun. 

[SeinfeldRules]

Scenarios don't have to be time consuming to release - the map is probably what takes the longest. But once you have a map, the scenario can be finished in a fairly short amount of time. I think people focus on flavor objects, AI plans and perfect play balance instead of just releasing the scenario. I can map a map, select forces and write the briefing in a weekend's worth of work. 3/4 of that time will be working on the map. It won't be perfect, it won't have weeks of playtesting, and it will probably be easy to win, but most people will enjoy playing it, and that's all that matters.

[Combatintman]

Scenarios don't have to be time consuming to release - the map is probably what takes the longest. But once you have a map, the scenario can be finished in a fairly short amount of time. I think people focus on flavor objects, AI plans and perfect play balance instead of just releasing the scenario. I can map a map, select forces and write the briefing in a weekend's worth of work. 3/4 of that time will be working on the map. It won't be perfect, it won't have weeks of playtesting, and it will probably be easy to win, but most people will enjoy playing it, and that's all that matters.

But yours aren't far off mate.

[Bulletpoint]

Scenarios don't have to be time consuming to release - the map is probably what takes the longest. But once you have a map, the scenario can be finished in a fairly short amount of time. I think people focus on flavor objects, AI plans and perfect play balance instead of just releasing the scenario. I can map a map, select forces and write the briefing in a weekend's worth of work. 3/4 of that time will be working on the map. It won't be perfect, it won't have weeks of playtesting, and it will probably be easy to win, but most people will enjoy playing it, and that's all that matters.

Fair enough, but I must say I really appreciate playing well-done scenarios with a lot of attention to both gameplay and to making the places seem real.

[SeinfeldRules]

But yours aren't far off mate.

Haha, you are too kind. 

Fair enough, but I must say I really appreciate playing well-done scenarios with a lot of attention to both gameplay and to making the places seem real.

I agree, but those are few and far between and often come with the base game. The time required for those scenarios could be weeks and weeks of work, and if you aren't getting paid to do it, often isn't worth it. And for the hobby scenario designer, the reward for a handcrafted, perfect-in-every-way scenario just isn't enough, and probably never will be if it doesn't involve monetary compensation... and I think that's just fine. I rather crank out a slew of enjoyable scenarios that keep people coming back for more, then just one Mona Lisa that people only spend a day playing. The quick to design, quick to play scenarios are what keep the community going, and what it needs IMO.

Edited November 23, 2015 by SeinfeldRules

[Bulletpoint]

I agree, but those are few and far between and often come with the base game. The time required for those scenarios could be weeks and weeks of work, and if you aren't getting paid to do it, often isn't worth it. And for the hobby scenario designer, the reward for a handcrafted, perfect-in-every-way scenario just isn't enough, and probably never will be if it doesn't involve monetary compensation... and I think that's just fine. I rather crank out a slew of enjoyable scenarios that keep people coming back for more, then just one Mona Lisa that people only spend a day playing. The quick to design, quick to play scenarios are what keep the community going, and what it needs IMO.

I fully respect your position, but I must say I feel the opposite. I'd rather just do one great scenario that people will remember, rather than five or ten enjoyable but forgettable ones. Not that I'm saying yours are forgettable, I never tried any of your scenarios, so I'm just talking very generally speaking here.

[kohlenklau]

Everybody has their opinion and that is fine. SeinfeldRules did a 208 x 208 map and scenario "Amongst the Ruins" and I haven't forgotten it. The smallest map size available but filled to the brim with CMRT goodness. If he did that in a weekend then I want what he puts in his coffee! A great job. IMHO much more memorable vs the big Cecil DeMille scenarios you often get with the main release. Short and sharp to me is more playable and those giant beasts against the AI like "Chasing the Bug"..well, they are a bear to create and the author said he looked at the blank map before he started and his jaw dropped and he felt the weight of some insurmountable climb. Months later it is done maybe. BFC has to hit all the desires. JonS has some smaller ones, some larger ones, the other main authors have a style. It is all good. We live in great times.

@SeinfeldRules  If you want to do a CMRT winter scenario using this mod I am scraping together, that would be very cool, da?  PM me if interested.

[kevinkin]

As kohlenklau said ... there is a market for all types of scenarios. Perhaps if like minds teamed up on battle creation output might increase for all types be they Cecil DeMille or Byte battles.

BTW I have time to help with any winter stuff. It hit the upper 20's last night here in NJ and I broke out the VSOP.  

Kevin

[BLSTK]

Meanwhile in Canada, we got our first snow of the season.

And I broke out the ice wine. Ice wine? Does anyone actually drink that stuff?

[kipanderson]

Sonar,

 

Others have probably said the same.. but do remember that the old CMBB enthusiasm is now spread over so many more products.

 

One of the great things about CMX2 is the Upgrade system. So many titles/setting all up the latest standard.

 

All the best,

Kip.

 

 

[womble]

Mmm. Eiswein. Yummy.

[kevinkin]

Ice wine .. that's those almost rotten grapes that makes really costly and tasty dessert wine. 

Kevin

[BLSTK]

You got it, Kinsman. If you aren't diabetic before you drink the stuff, you sure as hell will be afterwards.

Save your money. Better to spend it on the next BFC release.

Edited November 24, 2015 by BLSTK

[DLaurier]

I try designing scenarios.
I'm not terribly good at it.

[Combatintman]

I try designing scenarios.
I'm not terribly good at it.

You're trying though ... that is the important bit - keep at it - I'm sure that your stuff will turn out great.

[Bulletpoint]

There's also another issue with scenario design: The many different modules and expansions. Many players don't have all the expansions, so that basically fragments the player base.

The people who design scenarios are typically the biggest fans of the game, and so typically they already bought all the various extra modules etc. So, when they design scenarios, those scenarios can only be played by those who have also invested heavily in the game.

Which is cool for those people, but it leaves out the majority (?) of newcomers and slightly less dedicated people.

[MikeyD]

Isn't this post a copy-paste from a previous four or five or six identical posts that we keep getting on a regular basis? Critiquing a title you've never touched, haven't seen besides a couple early Alpha screenshots? What's the point? Why not go visit Farmville and bitch about their product for a change?

[AttorneyAtWar]

Isn't this post a copy-paste from a previous four or five or six identical posts that we keep getting on a regular basis? Critiquing a title you've never touched, haven't seen besides a couple early Alpha screenshots? What's the point? Why not go visit Farmville and bitch about their product for a change?

What does that have to do with anything going on in this thread?

Regardless if a post keeps coming up "five to six times" as you say than maybe, just maybe its a large point of contention with a lot of people, gee what a horrible thing to have on a forum, criticism.

Edited November 29, 2015 by Raptorx7

[Vanir Ausf B]

 I would rather see work going into refining the infantry battle, which to me is where the most notable failings in the game reside

Need specifics.

 and also the quick battle system, which is inconsistent in it's results to put it politely.

Need specifics.

 scenarios are like hens teeth

Solutions?

and it seems like there is nothing much to say on the forums in as much as it seems like the new engine isn't inspiring the same kind of debate

Solutions?

[sonar]

Well sonar, it starts with you I say!  

Bust out a scenario. Start very, very small, use the guide from JonS. Have fun. 

Ok, you are right, no use complaining about lack off community effort if I haven't contributed anything myself. My first  scenario "Cutting the line" is up at the scenario depot, feedback appreciated.

cheers.

 

 

[Bulletpoint]

Ok, you are right, no use complaining about lack off community effort if I haven't contributed anything myself. My first  scenario "Cutting the line" is up at the scenario depot, feedback appreciated.

cheers.

 

 

Sorry, can't play it, as I don't own CMRT. But it might be nice to have a bit more description on the Scenario Depot page. Right now, it just says "Small company sized battle in built up area."