Tanks firing AT missiles

[Euri]

I mention this in another thread but I think it deserves a separate post:

I fail to understand the doctrine behind   tanks firing AT missiles against other tanks or AFVs when they have available a high caliber gun which can kill enemy tanks easily. I understand the AT missiles on  AFVs (whose gun cannot kill a tank) but not for the tanks. AT missiles (at least as modeled in the game) have a much lower hit probability than the gun. And at distances within the range of 2kms I cannot see the reason why an Oplot (just an example) would choose to fire an AT missile against an enemy tank spotted at that distance rather  than aim and shoot with the gun.

 

Edited November 9, 2015 by Euri

[Lethaface]

Guessing the ATGMs have more punch compared to the KE rounds and are quite accurate under ideal circumstances. Not sure if the lot of ATGM countermeasures are calculated in the munition decision. 

[Sublime]

I think it also may be that ATGMs dont lose their punch at range and or the Kobra and Refleks can fire at longer range than the cannon. Which doesnt matter really in BS but in a Steppe minded armor force IRL..

[Stagler]

In my game with Husker, my Oplots have twice fired Kombat's at his T-90AMs to see them defeated by their APS systems, instead of KE rounds.

[Sublime]

Which sucks.. for you. So does tanks using them at extreme close range. But its the luck of the draw. Honestly Id rather lose missiles launched from BMPs to APS at all than not ever have seen a BMP2M fire its kornets. So Im going to ask has anyone ever seen a BMP2M fire its Kornets? Ive seen Brads fire TOWs, BMPs (Ukranian - not 2Ms) fire their GLATGM and tanks too, never the 2M however. Im sure it does work but Ive played... a lot of games with 2Ms and to have never seen a Kornet launched ever against all the Bradleys and Abrams Ive fought is odd. Anecdotal to be sure but Id happily lopp off the autocannon on my BMP2Ms if I could force them to be mobile Kornet launchers... 

[antaress73]

I ve seen them. Quite a few times, got some kills with them .

[Haiduk]

Euri

Tank gun missiles is a Soviet doctrine of "long hand" in tank duels. Because of western APFSDS were better than Soviet, was developed such ammunition, which allow to hit any western tank on the long range in 4-6 km before it can come on distanse of effective fire by APFSDS. But in real this weapon can give advantage only in flat terrain. If terrain with any crossed locations, target visibility anyway reduces to the same 1,5-2 km like for fight with APFSDS.  

ATGM "Kombat" is tandem missile with 750 mm RHAe penetration beyond ERA, which can fire on 100m - 5 km. APFSDS 3BM42 Mango effective fire range is just no more 2500 m with about 500-520 mm RHAe penetration under 0 degrees, further significantly fall accuracy and penetration capability. Effective firing range of 3BK14/18 HEAT shells (T-HEAT in game) is just about 1800-2000 m with penetration 450...500 mm RHAe and it can be defeated or significantly reduced by ERA. So, in some conditions, Kombat is "only hope" %)

In the game, of course, is very odd tanks behavior in choice of this weapon and ranges from which it uses. Also, for example, heavy overmodelled front turret armor of T-72B3 and bug with K-5 ERA on turret, which in 15-20 % hits defeats tandem missiles, make ATGM "Kombat" too weak for successful fight with Russian tanks.   

 

Edited November 10, 2015 by Haiduk

[Euri]

@Haiduk

Thank you.

I could not have dreamed a more comprehensive answer than this!

[rooibos]

Yup, saw this a lot last night playing Duelling Sashkas. Kept getting shredded by t90s after giving away my position firing missiles.

Would be neat to have a bit more fine grain control over which weapons fire (would solve the occasional Bradley issue as well). Could also provide some interesting tactical choices; having different ammunition types fired from multiple points.  In the Bradley's case, have 2 firing their autocannon to suppress and hit armor/optics while another queues up a TOW

[Kinophile]

This.

I do appreciate letting the tank crews fight their own battles,  buy it would be great if it was possible to set the Main gun arc separate from the secondary, 

Or

Set a tank in different modes,  eg,  overwatch (ATGM & shell) v. Assault (shell only). 

 

[panzersaurkrautwerfer]

It makes some sense, or at least you're at an odd juncture.  On the one hand the tank crew usually makes the decision in what to fire, on the other hand, often there may be a platoon-company fire plan that dictates what AFVs engage with what weapons (and when)*.  Having some control, especially when it "matters" (ATGM vs KE or autocannon fire) would be helpful. 

*As two examples:

1. Defending an engagement area against an enemy mechanized platoon  with supporting tank, a mechanized infantry platoon splits its fire.  One Bradley and its dismounted infantry squad engage the tank with ATGMs, while the remaining three employ their autocannons against the enemy PCs.

2. Real life vs CMBS, a tank platoon will often split the same engagement area between tanks.  One tank engages only PCs, the other only tanks.  This avoids target overkill and having to "dump" rounds (or if you're shooting at PCs and then a tank arrives, the fastest way to get rid of your HEAT round is just to shoot it at the enemy tank, hope it hits something worth breaking and throw a sabot in instead of trying to unload the weapon).  

[lucero1148]

Russian tank-fired AT missiles are also supposed to be able to engage low flying helicopters as well as tanks beyond 4k to 7k.  Whether there are any real-life instances of this happening in an actual war I don't know.

[Kinophile]

I mention this in another thread but I  AFVs (whose gun cannot kill a tank)

 

I've heard mention of this capability many times but haven't found any RL examples.