Panther G glacis

[kch001]

Just recently read through Michael & Gladys Green book "Panther" and they challenged the idea that the Panther G had a glacis that was of poorer quality than the Panther D & A. In that book, they cite critique of the US Army test that was made against a couple of captured Panthers, which is one of the main reasons why there is an impression of the armour being of poorer quality. Apparently the Panther G had already suffered quite a few hits before the test, and therefore should have been excluded. 

 

In Red Thunder, it assumes that the glacis of poorer quality, right? 

Anybody know more about the issue of the poorer armour? 

[Vanir Ausf B]

The evidence has always been limited and fragmentary but there is more to it that just Isigny. The Soviets noticed that their 122mm AP began penetrating Panther glacis plates at much greater ranges in summer '44. They also noted brittle, poor quality armor on the 2 King Tigers they captured in August.

[c3k]

Agree w/VaB: there is scant "proof" one way or the other. But there is a repeated anecdotal evidence, from surviving crewmembers and enemy, that the later Panther glacis were prone to cracking. There is other secondary evidence, as well. (Factory damage, foundry shortage, quenching vs. production demands, lack of raw materials, etc.)

[kch001]

Thanks. I guess it would make sense that the armour quality was reduced as a result of the overall progress of the war. 

Was it a case of lack of alloys or trying to speed up production?

 

As far as I have understood then the face hardening was abandoned when the use of capped AP rounds become more common. However this is not directly related to the lower quality glacis.

[Nidan1]

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a954940.pdf

 

This report may prove interesting, although very technical. This test was done on the side armor (no specific location for the sample section that I can find). Also it does not say what model Panther was used.

 

I would assume though, that the glacis plate used similar materials. Since the report is dated after war one could assume that the steel came from a G model, although As and Ds were still on the field in 1945.

Edited August 18, 2015 by Nidan1

[kch001]

Thanks. I am quite surprised that they would go with sub standard armour plate, and at the same time still producing a lot of (over) engineered vehicles like the Panther/Tiger etc etc. Doesn't seem very coherent. 

[ASL Veteran]

Thanks. I am quite surprised that they would go with sub standard armour plate, and at the same time still producing a lot of (over) engineered vehicles like the Panther/Tiger etc etc. Doesn't seem very coherent. 

They might not have a choice depending upon what resources are still available and which are needed.  Germany's access to critical raw materials and their ability to use specialized processes was more and more sketchy as the allies closed in and the bombs continued to fall.  Given the circumstances in which late war vehicles were produced it wouldn't surprise me at all if some of their parts and materials were sub standard. 

[Rinaldi]

Thanks. I am quite surprised that they would go with sub standard armour plate, and at the same time still producing a lot of (over) engineered vehicles like the Panther/Tiger etc etc. Doesn't seem very coherent. 

 

"Lack of Coherency" generally describes the German war effort in general after 1942

 

EDIT: On a serious note, like ASL said they didn't really have a choice; their armor quality began to take a downturn due to the rapidly deteriorating access to the necessary resources.

Edited August 20, 2015 by Rinaldi