AAR: Rinaldi v. Emory

[Rinaldi]

Turns 65-71 (Part Two):

 

Although the center of town is becoming a bloodbath, I'm confident the balance of casualties will go my way. Asides, this is an objective, so I'm going to have to suck it up. Let's head over to the right hook, where as you'll remember I just had a nasty meeting with a HMG. At the start of the turn set I didn't have a positive ID on it, and chose to wait for supporting armor to arrive. Well, they have, and here's how I'm going to try and find and kill that HMG:

 

 

 

Supporting armor lobs HE into town as the Platoon leader and a few fire-teams break to the right. Smoke is popped so I can cross the dirt road without taking fire from any potential secondary positions:

 

 

Then the Platoon HQ gets a spot on the HMG from its over watch position, and nails the gunner - nice shooting. That should keep the HMG team's heads down while I hunt towards it down the treeline with an assault team. A two man scout team stays with a tank and watches the wheat-field at the right edge of the map, ready to open up on any attempts by my enemy to displace.

 

 

On the left, by that little farm, its time to exact revenge for my Forward Observer. Its all over in seconds for the Germans in the farm, and the little platoon attack (supported by the Command tank of the taskforce commander) clears the objective without a single loss:

 

 

The balance of the platoon opens fire at the manor from the treeline, throwing in MMG fire, 60mm and HE fire to the mix, while the Platoon NCO takes a small fireteam around the rear of the manor, wiping out the HMG team as they cower on the ground floor. That went faster than I could've hoped. Now its time to get these boys back on tracks and gunning to link up with the armor I have moving towards the final two objectives. 

Edited September 14, 2015 by Rinaldi

[Rinaldi]

Alright, did a quick once over, looks like the AAR has survived the transition to the new forums. I've gotten another set of about 3 turns built up, and will send you all an update hopefully tomorrow night or the day after. I'll tell you this much: the town is eating more of my men alive, but the bodycount for the Germans is through the roof, I think we'll be seeing an end to this battle soon.

 

EDIT: Well, mostly  - quotes evidently didn't carry over, which looks like we're playing a very silly game of broken telephone. Question: If I compile this into a .pdf/word document (with obviously compressed .jpegs) would anyone be interested in that?

Edited September 16, 2015 by Rinaldi

[MOS:96B2P]

I read somewhere they were still working on some issues with this new format.  If you wait a few days maybe the quotes will be restored.   

[Bud Backer]

I read somewhere they were still working on some issues with this new format.  If you wait a few days maybe the quotes will be restored.   

You read that here: Missing quotes

My own AAR looks very untidy and confusing as I often quoted multiple people at a time, so I'm also hopeful this will be fixed 

[Rinaldi]

Thanks. I'm not too worried, I'm sure the issue will be resolved. Enough talk however; talk is cheap. A little preview from the next reports; you expressed concern for the isolated tank platoon a few posts ago MOS, well here's what they've been doing:

 

Making noise and confirming PAK kills

[MOS:96B2P]

You read that here: Missing quotes

My own AAR looks very untidy and confusing as I often quoted multiple people at a time, so I'm also hopeful this will be fixed 

Yes that was it.  Thanks Bud. 

<Snip>  you expressed concern for the isolated tank platoon a few posts ago MOS, well here's what they've been doing: Making noise and confirming PAK kills

Nice work.  Finding (safely) and eliminating AT guns can often be a PITA.  

[Rinaldi]

Nice work.  Finding (safely) and eliminating AT guns can often be a PITA.  

To put it mildly they often are, yes.

My own AAR looks very untidy and confusing as I often quoted multiple people at a time, so I'm also hopeful this will be fixed 

At least you have crisp looking images, and didn't bring out the GIMP. Still, I'm growing fond of my own half-assed top-down styles.

 

I haven't been able to grab screenshots yet, but I decided it was time to do a head count based on the latest set of turns (it turns out this town is simply crawling with Germans). Here are some musings as I inch past the halfway mark of the battle:

1. My enemy has an entire battalion on the field, I'm convinced. The platoons destroyed earlier at either crossing were from the same company. If I had to estimate his losses, they are nearing 50 percent; as I've destroyed a mortar battery, the better part of an Anti-tank battery (1 PAK still unaccounted for) and the better part of two rifle companies.
2. He has a company in the town, or what is left of it. Two tired platoons of infantry, even with tank support, aren't going to dig them out and both platoons are nearing combat ineffectiveness. Its time to make a killbox in the center of town with artillery and bypass for more seizeable objectives. Although I'm pulling out of town, the buildings I've secured have all had upwards of a fireteam killed completely within them. I reckon he has two platoons left at fighting strength.
3. He most likely has spread between the two farming communities a company.
4. At the bypassed ford, he has a platoon - which means if I can turn around and seize it with ease if necessary.

I'm nearing 30 percent casualties myself, damn it all. I'm going to have to push him for a surrender if I want a total victory now. I'm hoping the artillery box will break his spirit of resistance.

• Of the original 25 AFVs (not including M20s), I am down to 19. I'm actually not to upset over this, as I've accounted for 5 PAK guns and God knows how many enemy infantry. As per the historical loadout as well, this was a 2-1 split for the Battalion. My logic is like this, tanks formed the majority of the force, were expected to do the majority of fighting, and therefore take the brunt of the losses.
• Off the top of my head: 133 men of the original 194 infantry are still in action.
• This means that I'm nearing the 30 percent casualty threshold for my entire force.
• I have him essentially cut apart and trapped in 3 pockets, and my blind rushing has made me rebound with totally avoidable losses. I've advanced almost 2km into his rear, and he has nowhere to go. Now's the time to slow down.
• HE. Everything. I've been sparing with my use, and most of the remaining armor has on average 44 HE rounds left - I intend to not repeat my mistakes in the city, and level every building in the two hamlets before I move in the supporting platoon of infantry. The less actual fighting against a cohesive force my infantry have to do at this point, the better.
• I clearly need to work on how to attack urban areas, I'm out of practice. I'm satisfied with how I've handled a defense in depth over the open ground, however.

[General Jack Ripper]

• HE. Everything. I've been sparing with my use, and most of the remaining armor has on average 44 HE rounds left - I intend to not repeat my mistakes in the city, and level every building in the two hamlets before I move in the supporting platoon of infantry. The less actual fighting against a cohesive force my infantry have to do at this point, the better.

Now you're speaking my language! USE THAT HIGH EXPLOSIVE! You don't get paid to bring your ammo home with you.

[zinzan]

 

EDIT: Well, mostly  - quotes evidently didn't carry over, which looks like we're playing a very silly game of broken telephone. Question: If I compile this into a .pdf/word document (with obviously compressed .jpegs) would anyone be interested in that?

Yes I would, regardless of whether the forum quotes get fixed

 

[Rinaldi]

Yes I would, regardless of whether the forum quotes get fixed

 

I'll gladly compile it into a .pdf then when its all said and done.

Turns 72-79 (Part one):

The battle inside the town rages. An attempt to panzerscheck from an orchard on the outskirts of town is thwarted by the Sherman platoons on the high ground:

Moments later however, a second attempt is made by another team, this time they get a shot off - drat. The hit, which barely hits the lower hull, forces a dismount and this team is able to displace before return fire cuts them down.

Meanwhile the right hook closes on that HMG position. Frustratingly, they do not toss a grenade, and return fire instantly kills one of the assualt team members. However at 30m they can't compete with the M1s and all of the HMG team is killed save for one German, which flees through the hail of fire:

My enemy begins hammering the high ground with what I believe to be 105mm howitzers, once again the barrage (which is quite heavy) is quite late, and hits where I had been almost 8 minutes ago:

In the center of town, I'm comfortable enough now to bring in my supporting platoon of armor up close. The plan is brutal and simple, HE a building thoroughly, storm it and kill any survivors. Rinse and repeat. The first few blocks fall like this without much incident, but as part two will reveal this success is short-lived As I push on either side of the road coming in from my left, my overwatching armor continues to shellack the center of town with HE:

The situation deep in my enemy's rear has seen me pushing forward with an unsupported tank platoon, as I dealt with a pesky HMG in their rear. Now that the problem has been resolved, the infantry is back on tracks and ready to speed towards this vulnerable tank platoon. In the mean time, the Tank platoon itself has probed the first hamlet objective from the high ground. They've confirmed for me that my previous artillery (called in from the seized hill) did indeed knock out a PaK gun, and shoot up the farm for a bit. I'm too vulnerable to risk unbuttoning and I have no desire to sit there on the hill while the enemy potentially filters up some AT, so they will pull back into the reverse slope and await the infantry:

 

Its clear my enemy is on the back pedal, but I have to be careful to not self-destruct on his last, powerful positions. Its become increasingly evident that the town is held in great strength. I'm kicking myself for not hammering it with artillery before entering, but live and learn. Part two to follow soon.

 

Edited September 17, 2015 by Rinaldi
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[Rinaldi]

Turns 72-79 (Part Two):

Note: I will have a video done of the action in the town and over the last few turns hopefully before the weekend is over. This can get confusing to follow, so I'll let a quick video show what I can't describe.

My intuition with regards to my unsupported tank platoon proves true. They take a panzerschreck shot from a treeline at the edge of the hamlet; it misses by a wide margin. The Shermans retreat behind a smoke screen.

Their infantry support arrive soon after however, kicking up dust:

Back in town, I'm continuing my methodical HE-a-palooza, and the enemy body count is rising:

 

Then it all goes wrong, despite having infantry no more than 10 feet away, a panzerschreck team lurking around a corner gets a shot on the Platoon HQ's tank, knocking it out:

Belatedly, its infantry support downs both members of the team as they try to displace.

Despite losing the Sherman, I decide to push an assault team up to a house that should allow me to lock down the little intersection I had originally intended to push this platoon towards. I'm able to get into the house without incident, but immediately upon entering, the fireteam exchanges fire with German riflemen in a building just across the street. The exchange of fire intensifies as other positions all along the street-front also open up on my fireteam. In a brief 15 seconds, I have killed/wounded 3 of the enemy, and suffered 3 killed or wounded myself.

Here's the problem with that little trade off: I've already buried the better part of a platoon in the rubble sweeping down the street, and yet judging by the firestorm this fireteam started, its clear that whatever is holding the intersection is the beginnings of a second platoon. I'm bleeding tanks, I'm bleeding men,and the defenders outnumber me. Can I secure this objective if I pressed on? Undoubtedly, but it would be an even worse bloodbath than it already is. Its time to pull back and create a kill box. I have about 200 rounds left of 105mm between the two sections, its time to create some collateral:

 

I'm also going to push up to the opposite high ground another tank platoon, so that when I push back into the town center I can now HE from multiple angles. The right-hook will stop where it is until the barrage lifts; and will harass with their 60mm and supporting tanks the riflemen taking potshots at them outside of the killbox.

Let's end by looking at the situation in front (rather, behind) the first Hamlet, here's the plan to attack:

I have about 50 minutes to secure these two objectives, so I'll be moving forward cautiously with scout teams before the tanks press up into good firing positions. A sharp 'crack' of a PaK (this would be the missing 6th gun) just over the slope of the hill gives away its position. That'll have to be dealt with first before I can deploy my tanks into good firing positions. Again...I'm not sure what its firing at, but this little unmasking is going to get it hit in the rear by a tank section. Once that PaK is knocked out, the M18s can support by direct fire any advance on the hamlet from the high ground:

 

The next few turns may be the difference between a total victory or a minor one. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't nervous; because I'm attacking with more firepower, but a lot less manpower into these hamlets. All it takes is one good burst of MG fire and my attacking platoon will be sapped of its fighting strength...

 

Edited September 18, 2015 by Rinaldi
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[General Jack Ripper]

It's time for an arty stonk!

[Bud Backer]

Still a victory, even a minor one, is pretty neat, you know? 

[Rinaldi]

Still a victory, even a minor one, is pretty neat, you know? 

Of course, but remember I have Patton breathing down my neck. I feel like a bad skipper in Silent Hunter - "Be more aggressive!" Perhaps I can channel my inner c3k for the home stretch. 

It's time for an arty stonk!

I just got the Fire-For-Effect kick back for one of the sections. My opponent has hinted that if he takes any more significant casualties in his intact platoon with nothing to show for it that he might surrender or ask for a ceasefire, but I still have 45 minutes to grab objectives before I listen to any cries for mercy

 

Edited September 18, 2015 by Rinaldi

[Rinaldi]

Turns 80 -88:

Movement towards the hills on the opposite side of town continues at pace, but enemy harassing fire becomes more accurate as well. I'm not too worried about losing a Sherman to this shelling, but hell; better safe than sorry. This maneuvering Sherman has a close call:

 

That's okay though, because I'm about to return the favor in kind. As the movement to the high ground completes, the first rounds for the barrage land in the center of town, scoring direct hits on some buildings:

 

That about sums up what's happening in the town proper, my opponent hasn't made any attempts to displace (that I can see) or try to filter out of town. He seems content to sit in the kettle, and I'm more than content to let it boil for now - so let's shift over to the farming communities where we left off with a PaK gun firing at....something. I once again get this creeping feeling that something is not right, and halt the little wrap-around attack I planned with the two Shermans. I'm letting the weapons teams of the attached infantry take the little copse of trees first before I move them into a potential attack position. 

Seems like my sixth sense was on the money, because as the weapon teams take positions they get a spot on a second PaK gun. A sharp exchange of fire happens, but the surprised Germans can't compete with carbines, thompsons and grenades at close quarters, and most of the crew is promptly killed:

The PaK I originally heard at this point becomes a "?" marker for the M18s on the hill - perhaps because the XO of the Armored Infantry is withing screaming distance of the Tank Destroyer's HQ. No matter, the M18s get some target practice and destroy this PaK gun at 600m before it can even get a shot off in self defense. 

As the turn ends, I take a single casualty....among the Engineers at the base of the hill. I wasn't expecting that, but they quickly get a spot on the enemy: A HMG position has deployed in front of them at the perimeter of the objective. My engineers have been sitting here for almost 30 minutes, so I'm surprised this HMG has managed to crawl up into a firing position unseen. 

I'm going to pull the Engineers back into a bit better cover and move up the M18s; they should be able to get line of sight on this HMG from their position on the hill. I can also now move them into far better firing positions as I'm fairly sure that these two PaKs were the last he had (the total of confirmed PaKs knocked out being at 6). Once this HMG has been taken care of I may push the Engineers up to at least spray the treeline in front of them with fire and confuse my opponent as to where and how I'll be hitting this objective.

 

 

Edited September 19, 2015 by Rinaldi

[Bud Backer]

I find it disconcerting just how ineffective ATGs are in CM. You've demonstrated this several times in this battle alone. Good for you, I'm happy you're winning. But...

 I know that some argue they are just a Pain and bad replacement for tanks, but they were used, and used effectively in this war. Are there only specific, narrow parameters where they are usable in game? I'd have thought a defence like we're seeing here would be it...

Edited September 20, 2015 by Bud_B

[Rinaldi]

I find it disconcerting just how ineffective ATGs are in CM. You've demonstrated this several times in this battle alone. Good for you, I'm happy you're winning. But...</snip>

I was hoping to address this in the post-mortem, but since you've put it to an issue ("Why does it seem like ATGs are ineffective?")...

I'm not sure generally if you've found ATGs to be ineffective, but I have to disagree with the presumption that they are. There's a lot of mistakes that have been made by my enemy here with regards to his ATGs that is less a reflection of the equipment than it is how he was using them. Now, I'm not denying they were in clever positions (most were), nor that he wasn't being dynamic with them (shifting them even locally) . However, he broke a lot of basic rules that I use to guide my own usage of ATGs: 

1. Poor fire discipline. Think back, how many ATGs knocked out were done so bloodlessly because Emory so far has opened fire with them at excessive ranges (1.1km!) or for apparently no reason at all. With PAK-40s I generally set a target armor arc no greater than 500m. Evidently he either did not do that, or threw that out the window to engage prematurely.
2. His PaK fronts were not in true contact with any supporting infantry. I think you're probably referring to that PaK section I knocked out on my right. I was able to advance on their flank with armor and engage them. Given how frustratingly well he's handled his Panzerschrecks, even lacing an ATG platoon with a single platoon of Infantry or a HMG section probably would've either resulted in the loss of several Shermans, or a sharp rebuff. I've been able to generally isolate his PaK guns; and its largely his own fault. The flip-side of course is that you'd be creating a juicer target for artillery but....you have to break eggs to make omelettes. 
3. If I was in his shoes, I would've myself taken largely his load-out, with perhaps less a company but with a small mobile reserve of StuGs. The two PaK platoons were well placed, but unprotected and poorly handled compared to everything else he had. When you stall out trying to pick apart a PaK-front, you make yourself insanely vulnerable to artillery or counterattacks. He's dismounted, so he wasn't too capable of the latter, but even a handful of TRPs could've ruined my day.
4. Couple them even with a handful of mines. If you can't physically protect your PaK-Front with a corresponding unit of infantry, create safety distance artificially if possible. AP mines only cost 150 for ten, for example. 
5. No prime-movers? Even an Opel Blitz would've created a far more dynamic situation for me, I think.

Having just survived a PBEM of "Breaking the Panzers", I put my victory almost completely on my ability to hold my fire with 6pdrs, separate infantry and armor via artillery, and be able to displace them via prime-movers (in this case, Llyods) in between attacks.

Edited September 19, 2015 by Rinaldi
Words

[Bud Backer]

Interesting, Rinaldi. I don't want to derail your AAR thread, but this isn't the first time I've seen ATGs have a poor showing. I think this may warrant a good discussion of its own, but thank you for your detailed reply. 

[Rinaldi]

No worries, I'm hoping the AAR will generate discussion like this in the post-mortem. I'll have a lot of introspection to do about my own actions in this battle as well come the end of it. 

Another turn set hopefully within the next couple of days.

[MOS:96B2P]

<Snip>  I'm hoping the AAR will generate discussion like this in the post-mortem. I'll have a lot of introspection to do. <Snip> 

I look forward to this part.  It will be interesting to know if Emory attempted to use armored target arcs at all and if so what range.  I also wonder if the ATGs were kept in C2 so they received reports on the location of your spotted units.  Also if he used the Hide command for the ATGs.  

I have sometimes had a single OpFor ATG hold up a portion of my advance for several minutes while I attempt to solve the tactical problem it created for me.  Other times I have seen them (usually when they are mine) destroyed with ease.  It would be interesting to see some lessons learned that could be used for TACSOPs.           

[Bud Backer]

I look forward to this part.  It will be interesting to know if Emory attempted to use armored target arcs at all and if so what range.  I also wonder if the ATGs were kept in C2 so they received reports on the location of your spotted units.  Also if he used the Hide command for the ATGs.  

I have sometimes had a single OpFor ATG hold up a portion of my advance for several minutes while I attempt to solve the tactical problem it created for me.  Other times I have seen them (usually when they are mine) destroyed with ease.  It would be interesting to see some lessons learned that could be used for TACSOPs.           

All great questions.  I'm looking forward to more discussion on all this. 

[Rinaldi]

Turns 89-96:

M18s provide supporting fire as the Engineer platoon (background, distance), after concentrating, pushes into fire positions.

Buoyed by my success with those 2 PAK guns, I push up a tank from the supporting platoon of armor up along the road, about 30m in front of the covering weapons teams. Then I cash in all my luck at once:

From the side of the road, some form of headquarter's unit emerges, and fires a panzerfaust. The Commander was in the midst of buttoning up amidst fire from a k98 and that is the only logical explanation for why he is not dead or suffering from very painful neck and face wounds. The tank, gloriously, survives the faust, but the .50 is out of action. I expect to have nothing but rotten luck for my next PBEM as a result of this little incident. Vengeance is immediate:

The HMG, pinned by long range .50 cal fire, is knocked out by the Task force commander personally (pictured, inset):

The mortar team gets a spot on what looks like a rifle-pit forward of the farm objective, and put a few rounds down-range. No enemy were seen in it, but I have the ammo:

With the HMG knocked out and scouts pushing up to the treeline it was spotted in, the M18s move forward to better help anchor the flank of this attack:

The planned attack for this objective, the dotted line is a planned position - the M18s and the engineers will continue their passive role of protecting the flank of the assault and generally conducting recon-by-fire of the tree lines forward of the objective. The foxhole I spotted makes me believe that he hasn't been able to pull back his outposts into the actual objective proper. If I can continue to keep whatever he has along the river-bank from moving, taking the objectives will be easy. Scout teams from the rifle platoon are basically in the objective now, with no fire - I believe he's holed up in a select few buildings, which will make HEing him a lot easier once I get IDs:

What's happening back in the main town, deep in my enemy's rear? The artillery shellacking ended at the beginning of this turn set - not for a lack of ammo, but fatigue. I actually consider this a blessing in disguise, as I now have about 100 rounds left between the two 105 sections - a good emergency reserve for either the hamlets or specific places in town proper. With armor on high ground on either flank of the town, I hope to be able to better support the infantry platoon pushing back in.

The decision pays off early, as the recently displaced armor platoon jockey for good firing positions, the unbuttoned leaders come under MG fire from buildings to their front (inset), they all button up safely and I've begun HEing positions. I'm unsure why my opponent is so keen to fire on unbuttoned commanders - perhaps now he's just trying to maximize losses and be an annoyance, but all it does in this case is give me some intel:

 

Things seem to be shaping up, and I'm not taking furious amounts of fire. I'm hoping that the last 40 minutes or so of the battle can be described more as a mop-up than a firefight, but we'll see...

Edited September 21, 2015 by Rinaldi
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[Heinrich505]

Rinaldi,

  Holy crap, what a lucky break with the faust shot.  Then again, your opponent might have been aiming for the 50 cal just to unnerve you - he wants you to think he has so many panzerfausts lying around that he is deliberately taking out your MGs on the tanks, toying with you in a most evil fashion before finishing your armor off.

  Beware.  His evil genius is coming out.  You need to immediately deploy your tree anti-armor once again. 

  Great stuff.  Enjoying the action.

Heinrich505 

[Rinaldi]

Rinaldi,

  Holy crap, what a lucky break with the faust shot.  Then again, your opponent might have been aiming for the 50 cal just to unnerve you - he wants you to think he has so many panzerfausts lying around that he is deliberately taking out your MGs on the tanks, toying with you in a most evil fashion before finishing your armor off.

  Beware.  His evil genius is coming out.  You need to immediately deploy your tree anti-armor once again. 

  Great stuff.  Enjoying the action.

Heinrich505 

Cheers Heinrich, glad you're enjoying the action. I certainly hope he is running out of Anti-tank weaponry, there might not be enough trees left on the map to absorb it all!

A turn report tonight hopefully, we're quite far ahead from the last report now, I only need to edit the screenshots. A quick update as well: my opponent has offered a ceasefire - a good sign I think. I'll finish securing these two objectives before I even consider it however.

[Bulletpoint]

Maybe he had bad luck with his PaKs because he was moving them locally? That voids the big concealment bonus for unmoved AT-guns.