c3k Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Bud, When Bil and I agree on a tactic or technique, a stonemason should be called and it should be chiseled into living stone. What you do with the stone after that is totally up to you. Show us pictures of the explosion! Ken 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Backer Posted August 11, 2015 Author Share Posted August 11, 2015 (edited) Bud, When Bil and I agree on a tactic or technique, a stonemason should be called and it should be chiseled into living stone. What you do with the stone after that is totally up to you. Show us pictures of the explosion! Ken Hey, you both have different approaches in some things but that's because they work for each of you. That doesn't mean they are not something to pay close attention to. So even the stuff you don't agree on is useful. I look at this AAR as a learning experience. I'm going to make a lot of mistakes. But that's why you're here, right? Explosion to follow... Edited August 12, 2015 by Bud_B 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Backer Posted August 11, 2015 Author Share Posted August 11, 2015 (edited) Bud if you are going to button all your tanks and ACs you have to make sure you at least have some infantry nearby to help identify and suppress any enemy AT teams. I've deliberately held my tanks back, because I wanted infantry well into the woods before I move anything. Explanation in following posts. And yes, you're right, I intend (as the upcoming stuff will show) to do exactly what you suggest. Edited August 12, 2015 by Bud_B 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Backer Posted August 11, 2015 Author Share Posted August 11, 2015 (edited) Amazing - 4 pages of posts and the battle is only starting now! 45 minutes of upcoming anti-fascist mayhem! So, you're probably wondering what I was thinking, sending the two armoured cars along AOA 2 like that. My thought was that the armoured cars are pretty cheap, can handle rifle fire, and will draw out enemy infantry in the farmhouses and woods. Ken was of course right, I needed to have units covering them, and that means I also advanced too far into the woods with the eastern-most armoured car. I made the mistake of expecting small arms fire rather than counting on AT fire from the German riflemen. The first few minutes of the battle were getting from my starting positions which gave great cover but no LOS to a place in cover but from which I could see and shoot. The initial moves along AOA 2 were meant to flush our enemy panzerschrek teams and find any infantry that might have panzerfausts. I exclusively used infantry because I did not want to risk my tanks. The FOO was moved forward, as well as the Tankodesantnikii CO HQ, to provide me with the ability to retarget the rocket artillery depending on the situation. All that above was the theory. What really happened is this: Minute 45: My 2 armoured cars along AOA 2 advance, one in the woods for MG support of the HQ and the FOO, the other along the road. A deliberate provocation of my opponent, to see if I could make his squads in the Farmhouses on Key Terrain 1 to fire. RU021 There was no fire from the farmhouses. I didn’t expect to run into opposition right away. My opponent must have moved infantry forward from the edge of his deploy area into the woods that border KT 1. From there he fired on both armoured cars, as well as my infantry. RU022 Edited November 21, 2021 by Bud Backer 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinrich505 Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Bud, Nice screenshots and cutouts, a-la the master, Sensei Hardenberger...really neat seeing this all develop. I still haven't figured out how to do that yet for my screenshots. Soon you will be able to snatch the AAR pebble from Bil's hand, grasshopper... And so the aptly named Field of Death claims its first victim. You've a canny opponent. Watch out. Really enjoying this Bud. Heinrich505 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Backer Posted August 11, 2015 Author Share Posted August 11, 2015 (edited) Never, never, never, poke your head up unless you've got another 2x more sitting there to bop the other guy. Three's the number. Triangles again. Who is on overwatch for that armored car? Why are they buttoned up? How did a rocket propelled munition get fired and no one is pouring lead on the position? So now I can finally address this properly. The first few minutes I had no overwatch. Why? I didn't want to show my tanks. Obviously this is before I got the advice here. I wanted their numbers, presence, and location something my opponent would have to worry about the entire length of his front. In retrospect, I'd do it a bit differently, yes. Looks like there is a AT team in the grass Bud... Ken is correct (again, sigh..) I hope you have something overwathcing the movement of that AC, looking forward to the turn report! Good news is that is one less PF he can fire at your tanks! Agreed. I really needed to at least let my infantry keep pace with the armoured cars, and let the legs make contact, not the vehicles. Edited August 12, 2015 by Bud_B 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Backer Posted August 11, 2015 Author Share Posted August 11, 2015 Bud, Nice screenshots and cutouts, a-la the master, Sensei Hardenberger...really neat seeing this all develop. I still haven't figured out how to do that yet for my screenshots. Soon you will be able to snatch the AAR pebble from Bil's hand, grasshopper... And so the aptly named Field of Death claims its first victim. You've a canny opponent. Watch out. Really enjoying this Bud. Heinrich505 Thanks for the compliments Heinrich, but I doubt I'll ever be anywhere close to snatching that pebble! Glad you're enjoying the show! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinrich505 Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Not to worry. As c3k has previously noted, you've used up one of your opponent's limited AT rockets that might have been used against your tanks. Win-Win!!! Heinrich505 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Backer Posted August 11, 2015 Author Share Posted August 11, 2015 (edited) Minute 44-43: The second minute of the game begins with me ordering the armoured car in the woods along AOA 2 to area fire from where I think the panzerfaust came from. I’m keeping the FOO well back; his job is to see the target for my preplanned barrage, but the CO HQ moves in to see if he can spot the enemy hiding in the trees. RU023 I should have ordered more infantry into the woods at the start, but I was concerned about concentrating a lot of men in a small area and being hit by mortars. So it’s only in the second minute that I detached one squad from the tanks and run it up the slope into the woods. RU024 As my HQ approaches… RU025 Contacts begin to show in the woods right in front of the armoured car. I’m not sure if it’s the area fire making them nervous or if it’s the extra eyes on the shrubs, but in an instant there are multiples, and they begin to shoot back. RU026 As the squad I moved from my main force runs toward the fray, the Germans fire one, and then a second Panzerfaust. Fortunately for me, both miss. RU027 Edited November 21, 2021 by Bud Backer 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 That HQ team is about to run into a whirlwind of death... and that AC is way too close to those enemy contacts.. that could be trouble Bud. Looks like you lost a few SMGers as well.. ..an inauspicious start!! Waiting for you to get control of the situation, which I have no doubt you will. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Backer Posted August 12, 2015 Author Share Posted August 12, 2015 (edited) That HQ team is about to run into a whirlwind of death... and that AC is way too close to those enemy contacts.. that could be trouble Bud. Looks like you lost a few SMGers as well.. ..an inauspicious start!! Waiting for you to get control of the situation, which I have no doubt you will. I know, I know. *facepalm* Why did I ever decide to send an HQ into anything? Everyone knows, lead from the rear! I really can't explain my logic there, because there was none. Good catch - those two guys were killed by Panzerfaust #2. Didn't touch the BA-64B but killed two men. I forgot to mention that in my write-up, thanks for pointing that out. You'll have to be patient for a few more game-minutes as I catch up my turns. I do get a bit more organized, and there are some interesting developments on AOA 1 that I've not touched upon yet. Edited August 12, 2015 by Bud_B 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 (edited) Good news is he is firing off a lot of PFs that he is going to sorely miss later in the game. Take your time Bud.. rarely do you really need to rush things in these games. Edited August 12, 2015 by Bil Hardenberger 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Like Bil said. Plus, my .02: if it has a flag on it, it should not be leading the assault. Use your cannon fodder. You've got those SMG squads: toss 'em into the fray...ahead of your high value assets. SMG squads have smgs, and they cannot modify/call in any arty: only HQ's and FO teams can do that. Get them back and get a meat shield in front of them. If the enemy can toss a grenade in its hatch, your vehicle is too close to them. Just a rule of thumb. I think you'll roll the resistance up pretty quickly...but just hope you don't lose the HQ or FO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Backer Posted August 12, 2015 Author Share Posted August 12, 2015 (edited) Like Bil said. Plus, my .02: if it has a flag on it, it should not be leading the assault. Use your cannon fodder. You've got those SMG squads: toss 'em into the fray...ahead of your high value assets. SMG squads have smgs, and they cannot modify/call in any arty: only HQ's and FO teams can do that. Get them back and get a meat shield in front of them. If the enemy can toss a grenade in its hatch, your vehicle is too close to them. Just a rule of thumb. I think you'll roll the resistance up pretty quickly...but just hope you don't lose the HQ or FO. Will you please stop agreeing with Bil! I'm not going to reveal what happens in the next couple of minutes; I'll show it in the AAR. All I can say is... It does get better! Edited August 12, 2015 by Bud_B 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Backer Posted August 12, 2015 Author Share Posted August 12, 2015 (edited) Like Bil said. Plus, my .02: if it has a flag on it, it should not be leading the assault. Use your cannon fodder. You've got those SMG squads: toss 'em into the fray...ahead of your high value assets. SMG squads have smgs, and they cannot modify/call in any arty: only HQ's and FO teams can do that. Get them back and get a meat shield in front of them. If the enemy can toss a grenade in its hatch, your vehicle is too close to them. Just a rule of thumb. I think you'll roll the resistance up pretty quickly...but just hope you don't lose the HQ or FO. You're right, and I know I should not use the HQ as I did. Were I to do these few minutes all over again, I would -keep the CO HQ on one of the tanks and send a platoon of infantry to scout those woods. -The lead squad would split and use bounding overwatch while the other two follow. -The armoured cars would trail behind and provide MG cover but not be so close to the enemy as to get hit by panzerfausts. Edited August 12, 2015 by Bud_B 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinaldi Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 (edited) Contact so early! Love it. Edit: While I love seeing Officers leading from the front, is that HQ "moving?" Assuming they survive the little dust-up that's about to flare up, I think its more prudent to use the hunt command from now on Edited August 12, 2015 by Rinaldi 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOS:96B2P Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 -keep the CO HQ on one of the tanks and send a platoon of infantry to scout those woods. I hope you still have time to get the infantry Co HQ on a tank. I like to match up my infantry HQs with their supporting tank HQs in CMRT. It is one of the benefits of tank riders. When possible, I will put the infantry Platoon HQ on the HQ tank of the supporting tank platoon. (Same with Company level units.) This facilitates the flow of intel between the infantry unit and tank unit. Just have to be careful not to get the inf HQ shot off the back of the tank. Good luck with that. Infantry without radios can also use the tanks radio to stay in C2. With the lack of Russian radios this is often useful. The screenshot below demonstrates infantry/tank cooperation & C2. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Backer Posted August 12, 2015 Author Share Posted August 12, 2015 Contact so early! Love it. Edit: While I love seeing Officers leading from the front, is that HQ "moving?" Assuming they survive the little dust-up that's about to flare up, I think its more prudent to use the hunt command from now on Even more prudent would be not to use the HQ for this at all...because it's gonna get ugly! I have screen captures for the upcoming 3 minutes or so, and you'll see. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Backer Posted August 12, 2015 Author Share Posted August 12, 2015 I hope you still have time to get the infantry Co HQ on a tank. I like to match up my infantry HQs with their supporting tank HQs in CMRT. It is one of the benefits of tank riders. When possible, I will put the infantry Platoon HQ on the HQ tank of the supporting tank platoon. (Same with Company level units.) This facilitates the flow of intel between the infantry unit and tank unit. Just have to be careful not to get the inf HQ shot off the back of the tank. Good luck with that. Infantry without radios can also use the tanks radio to stay in C2. With the lack of Russian radios this is often useful. The screenshot below demonstrates infantry/tank cooperation & C2. Yes! I forgot about the tank rider-radio sharing. I tried to find your thread on this because I believe you had other useful examples, but could not find it. Can you post a link please, I think it really would be useful for anyone learning stuff on this thread. I'd even go so far as to suggest you posting links on your signature with your amazing informational threads. The testing you did is really invaluable to new players trying to understand C2. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 I should have ordered more infantry into the woods at the start, but I was concerned about concentrating a lot of men in a small area and being hit by mortars. So it’s only in the second minute that I detached one squad from the tanks and run it up the slope into the woods. From reading the rest of your threads I think you have figured this out already but just in case someone else reading this has not figured this out yet: ^^^ that is one scary screen shot. Two of your most valuable asses are up there where they should not be - the CO and the FO. It would be much better to see a platoon of infantry ahead of them with the armoured cars close behind and the FO and CO behind that. The old adage never send a squad where scouts haven't been, never send a platoon where a squad hasn't been, never send tank / company where a platoon hasn't been etc culminates in never send the FO unless a whole crap load of your troops have already cleared the area. You want your FO to slide into place next to some of your infantry who already have eyes on the target. Not just because you want the way to be clear of the enemy but also because you want any enemy contacts to be worrying about the platoon with armoured car support so they don't spend time paying attention to the FO. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 ... Two of your most valuable asses are up there where they should not be - the CO and the FO. .. I'm pretty sure you meant to say "assets", but on reflection, your original works too 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 LOL yeah Freudian slip there. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 It's funny, I saw that too, but thought Ian had indeed used the correct word, never gave it a second thought. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Backer Posted August 12, 2015 Author Share Posted August 12, 2015 I'm pretty sure you meant to say "assets", but on reflection, your original works too I'm pretty sure the FOO and Company HQ think the dude running the show is an ass! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Backer Posted August 12, 2015 Author Share Posted August 12, 2015 (edited) Minute 43-42: My squad is going to run for the end of the clearing, then hunt across to see if they can change those contacts to hard targets. The armoured car begins to frantically back upon its own orders. RU028 Ken will be pleased that I’m really cleaning out the infantry AT capability. A third panzerfaust is fired on my armoured car, landing amazingly right under the engine. What? You need to see what happens? I mean, the thing has 10mm armour - you don't really need to....oh fine ok, I'll show you. RU029 My CO HQ team loses a man to the panzerfaust team. They shoot back, killing one, then another, then a third man. I hand picked those men for this job because I knew they were just this good! RU030 But that’s not all the the Fascist invaders have here! A stielhandgrenate 42 (the '43 had a pineapple textured head) sails lazily in the air to land at the feet of the Tankodesantnikii Company HQ, removing the top level leadership for my infantrymen. Well, they did find the enemy for me… RU031 Another SMG squad dismounts the idling tanks and heads up the hill. I’m still keeping my tanks safely below the ridge. RU032 As the minute ends, the squad sent last minute arrives on the scene, to survey the carnage. This is one of my favourite screenshots - look at the cloud of dust and smoke the men disappear into. It's cinematographic! RU033 While half the first squad on the scene (3rd squad 1st platoon) covers, the other half rushes forward, and takes another casualty. The shot came from somewhere West. RU034 Edited November 21, 2021 by Bud Backer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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