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Bud's Russian Attack AAR: Красная молния


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I'm going to be attacking across a narrow front - using woods as cover. The attack will take place using Avenue of Approach 2  <Snip>

 

Bud, sounds interesting.  If possible, point wise, a few demo teams might come in handy for both the farm buildings and then later in the objective area. They will give you the option to go through the building walls instead of around them.     

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I like your plan and your force suggestion. I was about to suggest the very same thing. I think I would be drawn to the left side avenue of approach because I like the cover of woods rather than buildings. But the more important thing is to avoid that field.

 

This is one of the things I really like about posting an AAR - the ideas and suggestions that people - like you and Bulletpoint  - offer. Each one of us has very different ideas on what would be the best approach, but I'm also getting the impression that none of the ideas is a bad one. I'll bet that if each of us did the same game, and took our respective approaches, they would work for every one of us. 

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I understand your concerns, but I believe you could easily achieve fire dominance over that field from the southern end. after some slugging it out, his guys would be pushed back and you would be able to enter carefully by leapfrogging infantry forward.

 

By getting funneled into two narrow pushes, you lose your strength in numbers. Could turn into a meat grinder if he sets up his forces on the sides.

 

Anyway, who knows. Let's see. Maybe your plan is better. It all depends on how your opponent is thinking. And I don't have any experience with playing as the Russians.

 

I admit that pushing up a narrow front has some risks, you're absolutely right. Here is how I think I can mitigate them:

 

  • I am choosing the AOA. He can guess which I might take but must account for the possibility of either. He must split his forces to cover both, and therefore, I will outnumber him whichever side I go on. The middle lets him concentrate fire from all his forces. 
  • By using the cover, I diminish the advantages of his powerful guns. By the time he can shoot me I'm so close I can almost smell the schnapps he had at breakfast.
  • If my artillery barrage works as I hope, my already numerical advantage will be enhanced as his units in my AOA will be damaged or destroyed

That's the theory anyway! :) 

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If I were him, I'd place my Panther around the uppermost corner of the blue rectangle around the farmhouses.

 

Looks like it could dominate the long road down towards the bottom left of the map, and also the approach on the right side, while being masked from your starting positions.

 

I agree completely. I'm also expecting something on the woods to both map edges to try and hit me as I reach either Key Terrain. 

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Bud, sounds interesting.  If possible, point wise, a few demo teams might come in handy for both the farm buildings and then later in the objective area. They will give you the option to go through the building walls instead of around them.     

 

I have to see how the points balance out. Demo teams might be handy, but then from what I've seen from T34/85 HE loadouts, I may just use them as demo teams! :D

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All right, so after playing around with the points, and struggling with the different formations and how to get it structured how I want, I've picked a force for this game.

 

1 Tank Regiment HQ (T34/85)

1 Tank Co HQ (T34/85)

2 Platoons of Tanks - ea with 2xT34/85 & 1 IS-2

 

1 Recon Platoon - 3xBA64B

 

1 Tankodesantnikii Co consisting of 

CO HQ (3 men)

3xPlatoons consisting of

1 plat HQ (1 man) & 3 Squads (10 men ea)

 

1 FOO

 

1 Battery of 4x82mm Rocket launchers - off map - 384 rockets

 
 
The two tank platoons each had one T34/85 substituted with an IS-2 for some heavy punch. I will use them as assault tanks - tanks that are frontally heavily armoured and able to face enemy tanks and take a few hits possibly. Their ammo loadouts are low, and reload time is very very long, but I think they are meant to hit something hard - demolish walls and provide stationary AT support. The T34's will do the maneuver work, advancing while covered by these behemoths. 
 
This is the first time I ever use rocket launchers, so I hope this wasn't a huge mistake! 
 
The armoured cars only have MGs but should be able to support my scouts as I go looking for my enemy. In any case they are expendable, there to expose threats, not to actually do combat. 
 
So the totals are:
 
6 T34/85s
2 IS-2s
9 SMG squads, with associated 1-man HQs
1 FOO
3 Armoured cars
Off Map arty
Edited by Bud_B
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Bud, I would attack, or at least probe down BOTH AOAs if I were you.. then push your main body down the side with fewer enemy contacts... I like to spread the enemy defense as much as possible with my initial moves, and only deciding where to actually concentrate after I have a picture of the defenses.  How do you know he isn't concentrating along the axis you have already decided on?

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Bud, I would attack, or at least probe down BOTH AOAs if I were you.. then push your main body down the side with fewer enemy contacts... I like to spread the enemy defense as much as possible with my initial moves, and only deciding where to actually concentrate after I have a picture of the defenses.  How do you know he isn't concentrating along the axis you have already decided on?

 

Bil, I'm right with you. I will do just that! Thanks for the suggestion. :) 

 

Just as I know my opponent (who's been a close friend for over 30 years) he has to know me, and you're right, he's going to anticipate what I am likely to do; splitting his forces is crucial. 

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Bil's last post really reminded me of IanL's advice in another thread: spreading the enemy defences by being visible all along the front. Giving one's opponent multiple sound contacts and visual contacts spread widely to make one's actual main thrust difficult to identify until too late for him to respond. I never really thought of this before Ian brought it up. I'm not very good at the deception game. My opponent In this battle is actually better at it than me. So yes, I will be scouting on both AOAs, and maybe in so doing give my opponent something else to worry about other than my real attack.

I can't transport all my infantry as Tank Riders, so I've taken one squad, supported by an armoured car, to go carefully probing along AOA 1:

AM-JKLUwHdDAMdFzoVSyfI3Vg20LWMvK8TXuO3Sp

RU011

Meanwhile, the bulk of my forces are ready to move along AOA 2:

AM-JKLVivjFfLnYfeS-ysa1mX3jpZTguF7DA35Qw

RU012

Edited by Bud Backer
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Bud, I would attack, or at least probe down BOTH AOAs if I were you.. then push your main body down the side with fewer enemy contacts... I like to spread the enemy defense as much as possible with my initial moves, and only deciding where to actually concentrate after I have a picture of the defenses.  How do you know he isn't concentrating along the axis you have already decided on?

 

The deployment is already done and I can't change it. I realize now (having read your blog) that I'm doing a quasi-command push with a distraction element on AOA 1, which is not what you were recommending. When first I read your post in my eagerness what caught my eye was the idea of creating the illusion that I may be coming from two fronts, not one. What I realize now is that you're talking about a recon pull (?) - letting my attack go forward where I have the least opposition or the best ability to handle what I encounter. 

Edited by Bud_B
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LOL, you are one step ahead of me. I was just about to write, no that's not what Bil meant. I see you figured it out on your own.

On the subject of creating illusions you could even have some units go up the over the top of the ridge in the middle and make it look like you are going to cross the field.

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The deployment is already done and I can't change it.

 

With the benefit of the ridge that protects line of site into your set up area you may be able to run tanks with tank riders from your right flank back over to the left flank.  The map is only 554 meters wide and there is generally no obstacles to lateral movement in a QB map set up zone.  Or maybe just have some of them move to the center of your set up zone and stand by.  Then on order respond to whichever flank you think is most beneficial.  It will take your recon some time to develop the situation anyways....................  Just a thought.  Interesting stuff and the first shot hasn't even been fired yet.   

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Bud, I would attack, or at least probe down BOTH AOAs if I were you.. then push your main body down the side with fewer enemy contacts... I like to spread the enemy defense as much as possible with my initial moves, and only deciding where to actually concentrate after I have a picture of the defenses. How do you know he isn't concentrating along the axis you have already decided on?

LOL, you are one step ahead of me. I was just about to write, no that's not what Bil meant. I see you figured it out on your own.

On the subject of creating illusions you could even have some units go up the over the top of the ridge in the middle and make it look like you are going to cross the field.

With the benefit of the ridge that protects line of site into your set up area you may be able to run tanks with tank riders from your right flank back over to the left flank. The map is only 554 meters wide and there is generally no obstacles to lateral movement in a QB map set up zone. Or maybe just have some of them move to the center of your set up zone and stand by. Then on order respond to whichever flank you think is most beneficial. It will take your recon some time to develop the situation anyways.................... Just a thought. Interesting stuff and the first shot hasn't even been fired yet.

If one puts all this together then I would modify my plan as follows:

The idea of probing along both AOAs is smart - as well as spreading out my forces at least on some level to give my opponent something to worry about other than my "real" attack. The ridge gives me the ability to shift forces behind my lines as I please, so I can do exactly what is also suggested above, which is to reinforce where I need.

However, I am still intending on concentrating on AOA 2 until circumstances change. I will be using all of the above where before I didn't plan to.

Edited by Bud_B
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If you don't send SOMETHING up the Field of Death you're a total pussy! While AOA 1 defenders are looking to defend their zone, the AOA 2 defenders will be doing the same. No one will be looking in the middle! The lucky bastards chosen for the glorious Field of Death attack will be able to flank BOTH defenders.

 

Do it.

 

You know the defender has assumed you'll never go up the middle. Therefore, you must. Think of your men. ;)

 

A jeep, a flamethrower, and one PPsh. It'll be the key to the whole battle.

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If you don't send SOMETHING up the Field of Death you're a total pussy! While AOA 1 defenders are looking to defend their zone, the AOA 2 defenders will be doing the same. No one will be looking in the middle! The lucky bastards chosen for the glorious Field of Death attack will be able to flank BOTH defenders.

Do it.

You know the defender has assumed you'll never go up the middle. Therefore, you must. Think of your men. ;)

A jeep, a flamethrower, and one PPsh. It'll be the key to the whole battle.

Ah, you FINALLY made it! I was starting to feel rejected ;)

I don't have any jeeps or flamethrowers - the comrade-commissar told me some glory hound lost them in an attack - but I'll follow your cogent, insightful suggestion and send an armoured car. What could go wrong? :D

Edited by Bud_B
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^^^

;)

 

Yesss...the dark side pulls you..

 

 

In all seriousness, a hull-down position which can fire upon both tree lines may be well worth it for some overwatch elements. If the defenders have to guard the length of the woods as well as their flanks, your attack can be assisted by the "fire base" of your triangle. (Two maneuver sides, the base is the fire.)

 

Weight whichever side you like (as you've done on your right), occupy the left with a minor attack so the defenders there, if any, can't assist against your right, and the center guys can pick off any armor with flank shots. If he has non-turreted vehicles, the center force will really light 'em up.

 

I'd put two tanks left, two tanks center, and the rest on the right. FWIW.

 

Edited to add: the timing of the center's exposure will be important.

Edited by c3k
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Perhaps you'd be surprised to hear that I agree with Ken re: sending something, (or somethings) through that field... he cannot defend everywhere... though I think he can probably defend the field AND both approaches.. but perhaps not at the same time.

 

Worth thinking about.

 

 

^^^

;)

 

Yesss...the dark side pulls you..

 

 

In all seriousness, a hull-down position which can fire upon both tree lines may be well worth it for some overwatch elements. If the defenders have to guard the length of the woods as well as their flanks, your attack can be assisted by the "fire base" of your triangle. (Two maneuver sides, the base is the fire.)

 

Weight whichever side you like (as you've done on your right), occupy the left with a minor attack so the defenders there, if any, can't assist against your right, and the center guys can pick off any armor with flank shots. If he has non-turreted vehicles, the center force will really light 'em up.

 

I'd put two tanks left, two tanks center, and the rest on the right. FWIW.

 

Edited to add: the timing of the center's exposure will be important.

 

Bil;

 

I agree with your estimation, the distances are pretty small from KT1-KT2-Ridgeline, less than 500m and wide open. I think he has mutually supporting positions which is what concerns me. Your suggestion to at least probe along both AOAs is wise - I wanted to concentrate on just one but I am going to go up both. 

 

Ken;

 

Now that I realize you were serious... :D

 

I'm going to go scouting for a turn or two to see what I can reveal, before making any moves to the centre. That timing thing you mentioned is a very good warning and I'm taking it seriously. I like your triangle analogy, though. Choices, choices...

Edited by Bud_B
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I (quickly) skimmed over again trying to find an Order of Battle; did you provide one? What's your fire support like? Insofar as pushing down the center a la c3k you could always try to cover the shoulders of such an advance with smoke if you have good weather and the means to provide it. I mean the shock factor of that alone might give you an edge...or end in a bloody rout, these things are always 50/50.....80/20.

Edited by Rinaldi
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I (quickly) skimmed over again trying to find an Order of Battle; did you provide one? What's your fire support like? Insofar as pushing down the center a la c3k you could always try to cover the shoulders of such an advance with smoke if you have good weather and the means to provide it. I mean the shock factor of that alone might give you an edge...or end in a bloody rout, these things are always 50/50.....80/20.

1 Tank Regiment HQ (T34/85)

1 Tank Co HQ (T34/85)

2 Platoons of Tanks - ea with 2xT34/85 & 1 IS-2

1 Recon Platoon - 3xBA64B

1 Tankodesantnikii Co consisting of

CO HQ (3 men)

3xPlatoons consisting of

1 plat HQ (1 man) & 3 Squads (10 men ea)

1 FOO

1 Battery of 4x82mm Rocket launchers - off map - 384 rockets

Rinaldi, see above for my force. :)

I do not have smoke other than what my individual units can fire. The weather is fine for smoke but I didn't want to devote a lot more points to artillery. I really hate firing blind and if I do it had to be for maximum effect. I'd need a lot of smoke to cover what I think are the critical areas (KT1 and KT2). In any event I can't change my force now.

I like that you mentioned how chancy this could be. I prefer to be more cautious and figure out what my enemy is doing than take huge risks. And that comes from watching the AARs I've seen here. :)

Edited by Bud_B
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That's the sound option given the fire support you have. I only do such fire missions when its painfully obvious (terrain, terrain, terrain) how the initial contact will play out, or if I have the fire support to do so, and I'm thinking multiple artillery batteries when I say that. 

 

Your OOB is solid; the Recon Platoon, the ridge protecting your LOC and the FOOB will allow you to spend minutes in relative safety IDing hard points that you can eliminate. Probing both AOAs will also play to the natural strengths associated with a SMG platoon (I have to say, I find it curious  you took a full desanti Company in lieu of a rifle unit), and its very much my style in flattish terrain.

 

Any insight on what you believe your opponent will do?

Edited by Rinaldi
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That's the sound option given the fire support you have. I only do such fire missions when its painfully obvious (terrain, terrain, terrain) how the initial contact will play out, or if I have the fire support to do so, and I'm thinking multiple artillery batteries when I say that.

Your OOB is solid; the Recon Platoon, the ridge protecting your LOC and the FOOB will allow you to spend minutes in relative safety IDing hard points that you can eliminate. Probing both AOAs will also play to the natural strengths associated with a SMG platoon (I have to say, I find it curious you took a full desanti Company in lieu of a rifle unit), and its very much my style in flattish terrain.

Any insight on what you believe your opponent will do?

Thanks for your thoughts - I think my force is ok. I'm curious if others would have chosen differently, but since no one jumped up and said "don't do it!" I assume the force is a viable, capable one.

I started this battle when I finished reading Bil's CMRT beta AAR. I was quite excited by what he was able to do with his units - the SMG infantry, as well as the T34s. His experiment with Ken with SMG troops in the woods had me convinced that while HE might be able to slow or stop Ken's SMG company, MY opponent will struggle to deal with this level of short range firepower. So I picked the Tankodesantnikii company over a rifle company.

What will my opponent do?

I think you will find my thoughts on that here: :) Post # 9

http://community.battlefront.com/topic/120458-buds-russian-attack-aar-красная-молния/?p=1624830

Edited by Bud_B
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Given my main effort (unless scouting discovers a different route) will be along AOA 2 I am ordered during the deploy phase a Rocket barrage along the farmhouses on Key Terrain 1. There is a 5 minute delay so that I can hopefully recon and if need be shift or cancel the barrage, but I am convinced that my opponent will be there, waiting. If he isn’t, it’s only to avoid what he expects - a turn 1 barrage and he intends to move in later. I can’t know for sure, but the 5 minute delay may catch him off guard. 

AM-JKLUfgM2xeMEDbPhfExFUWFja1e-HmShZqT-z

RU013

Edited by Bud Backer
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