Bud's Russian Attack AAR: Красная молния

[Bud Backer]

This is the map looking out from the German side. The back area doesn’t have a lot of cover, and anyway I expect a forward to mid-line defence from my opponent. 

RU014

Edited November 21, 2021 by Bud Backer

[Bud Backer]

From the German side, A0A 1 looks very open once one passes through the treeline. If he is hidden anywhere here, it will be in the trees or the town itself. The open field presents another kill zone I’m reluctant to traverse without preparation. 

RU015

Edited November 21, 2021 by Bud Backer

[Bud Backer]

ON AOA 1 the squad will advance through the woods, cross the road and enter the woodline that is Key Terrain 2 to see what the Germans have there. The armoured car will advance in the open - I am in this case daring him to shoot at it and reveal his positions. The armoured car is expendable. C3k would be proud

 

You can see that Key Terrain 1 overwatches the movement here, despite the thin line of trees near my deploy area. 

 

 

RU016

On AOA 2 I will have my FOO move forward to be able to see the target that was laid on during the deploy area for the rocket strike. The armoured car will advance down between the two trees, and on the right I am moving forward infantry to scout ahead of the tanks with their riders. 

 

These were my orders before some of the subsequent discussion here. I realize in retrospect that I would do it differently were I to do it again, but by the time some of the points were made my turn was already returned by my opponent. 

 

RU017

Edited November 21, 2021 by Bud Backer

[Bud Backer]

This screenshot shows my entire force. All the tanks and mounted infantry will remain stationary behind the ridge line so that my opponent has no idea what is going on. He will only see some scouts and armoured cars on both AOAs.

 

 

RU018

 

This is the view from the FOO team in the general direction of Key Terrain 1. They cannot see the target at this point. 

 

RU019

Edited November 21, 2021 by Bud Backer

[Heinrich505]

Bud,

  Are you holding anything out as a reserve to try and exploit the side that is weaker? 

 

  Is the tanker truck full of vodka just off the map and coming in to help "reinforce" the lucky guys probing the Field of Death?

 

  No matter what you do, this will be a good fight.  Looking forward to it.

 

 

Heinrich505

[c3k]

Ken;

 

Now that I realize you were serious...

 

I'm going to go scouting for a turn or two to see what I can reveal, before making any moves to the centre. That timing thing you mentioned is a very good warning and I'm taking it seriously. I like your triangle analogy, though. Choices, choices...

 

Triangles: I start with Lines and only advance to Triangles when I think the player is no longer a Novice. By the time you'll have advanced to Octagons and Nonagons, you'll have Grokked the essence of battle.

 

 

Given my main effort (unless scouting discovers a different route) will be along AOA 2 I am ordered during the deploy phase a Rocket barrage along the farmhouses on Key Terrain 1. There is a 5 minute delay so that I can hopefully recon and if need be shift or cancel the barrage, but I am convinced that my opponent will be there, waiting. If he isn’t, it’s only to avoid what he expects - a turn 1 barrage and he intends to move in later. I can’t know for sure, but the 5 minute delay may catch him off guard. 

 

 

The delay is not a bad idea. However, rocket artillery is very unpredictable. I'd keep my troops FAR away from the impact zone. Or vice versa. I've walloped my men with rockets too many times to count. (I do it to show them I love them.)

 

Ken

 

Edit: It looks like your SMG flankers are using Assault for the last movement segment?

Edited August 10, 2015 by c3k

[MOS:96B2P]

<Snip> rocket artillery is very unpredictable. I'd keep my troops FAR away from the impact zone. Or vice versa. I've walloped my men with rockets too many times to count.<Snip> 

 

This is a good point.  In my experience the rockets will not come down in a linear or point target pattern even though the UI gives you those choices.  All rocket missions are basically area fire missions.  I am a little nervous for your F/O in the one screenshot.  He seems to be getting close to where a stray rocket may land.  When it is time for the rockets to impact you may want to put your closest units on Hide.  IIRC the rockets also come in salvos.  I don't know what your duration for the mission is but if it is long enough one salvo will hit then reload (may take a few minutes) and then salvo again.  This will basically have a similar effect of a smoke screen from all the impacts. 

[Bud Backer]

Bud,

  Are you holding anything out as a reserve to try and exploit the side that is weaker? 

 

  Is the tanker truck full of vodka just off the map and coming in to help "reinforce" the lucky guys probing the Field of Death?

 

  No matter what you do, this will be a good fight.  Looking forward to it.

 

 

Heinrich505

That's a great question. Normally, I always keep a reserve, typically about 1/3 of my force, as a reserve. And I think this is very common for most players. This battle is an exception. Here's why:

-I have protected lines of communication from one side of the map to the other, so I can respond to what I discover on either AOA.

-My Opponent's style when defending will focus more on ambush than maneuver. It means that I will have the initiative in this fight and it's he that needs to have a reserve.

I know this is unorthodox, and likely not recommended.

Military tactics are like unto water; for water in its natural course runs away from high places and hastens downwards. So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong and to strike at what is weak.

In this fight, I want to reinforce success and not go head to head with him as that gives him the advantage of me coming into his already prepared positions. I view my force as so mobile that I can swing it wherever I need to respond to the situation and in a way, whichever AOA I wish to reinforce I can pull units bogged in the other AOA.

At this time, both AOAs are only being reconned, so my main force is uncommitted, and will remain so until I see what I'm up against.

In my army, it is *I* that enjoy the vodka, I want my men sober for the fight they will win for me!

[Bud Backer]

Triangles: I start with Lines and only advance to Triangles when I think the player is no longer a Novice. By the time you'll have advanced to Octagons and Nonagons, you'll have Grokked the essence of battle.

 

The delay is not a bad idea. However, rocket artillery is very unpredictable. I'd keep my troops FAR away from the impact zone. Or vice versa. I've walloped my men with rockets too many times to count. (I do it to show them I love them.)

 

Ken

 

Edit: It looks like your SMG flankers are using Assault for the last movement segment?

You must have attained dodecahedron level of skill!

I have to see the results of my initial few moves before I determine if I'll go all Triangular on my opponent.

Thanks for the warning about the rocket artillery. I never used it before in any CM game so this will be...interesting... I did not realize the area of scatter could be that big!

The SMG troops you see are actually showing because this screenshot is from two minutes into the game. I have to catch up with the AAR to show you what is going on.

[Bud Backer]

This is a good point.  In my experience the rockets will not come down in a linear or point target pattern even though the UI gives you those choices.  All rocket missions are basically area fire missions.  I am a little nervous for your F/O in the one screenshot.  He seems to be getting close to where a stray rocket may land.  When it is time for the rockets to impact you may want to put your closest units on Hide.  IIRC the rockets also come in salvos.  I don't know what your duration for the mission is but if it is long enough one salvo will hit then reload (may take a few minutes) and then salvo again.  This will basically have a similar effect of a smoke screen from all the impacts.

Thanks, MOS! I never would have thought of using the Hide command, but I guess the game models the actual posture of the troops and if they are lying really low not even lifting their heads then they are less likely to get hurt. Makes sense, but I never would have considered the game went into that level of detail.

[Bud Backer]

So...just how good is the side armour on a BA-64B?

RU020

Edited November 21, 2021 by Bud Backer

[Bulletpoint]

If the Russian rockets are as inaccurate as the American ones in CMBN, then you might want to just do a point mission and move it a bit further away. Right now, about 1/3 will fall uselessly in the field in front of the houses, and some might even land on your troops.

[Bud Backer]

If the Russian rockets are as inaccurate as the American ones in CMBN, then you might want to just do a point mission and move it a bit further away. Right now, about 1/3 will fall uselessly in the field in front of the houses, and some might even land on your troops.

Are rockets really that bad? Wow!

[Bulletpoint]

Are rockets really that bad? Wow!

 

They are not bad, they are actually very effective for area saturation bombardment. But don't expect accuracy

 

The good thing about rockets is that they get delivered so fast. So you have a good chance of catching troops before they have a chance to go prone.

 

For the same reason, it's better to do 2-3 short duration strikes with rockets rather than one lengthy bombardment. Because after some seconds, all enemy are either dead or are taking cover, so you're not getting as much impact for the following rockets in an ongoing barrage.

 

But of course, it depends on what you want to do. A 390 rocket point strike will probably kill anything in a circle of apprx 2-300 metre diameter. I think I once measured the spread to be around 150 metres from target line. And it also depends on rocket size of course. I'm talking about Calliope and Xylophone rockets. Not sure about the Russian types.

Edited August 10, 2015 by Bulletpoint

[Bulletpoint]

By the way, was rocket point cost ever fixed? I remember reading the price was off by a factor of ten... like somebody forgot to punch in the final zero in the price tag.

[c3k]

So...just how good is the side armour on a BA-64B?

 

Awesome!!! Your oppo has taken bull by the nuts! Or the early squirrel got the horns. Whatever. I love the early ambush. That'll keep ya honest.

 

Never, never, never, poke your head up unless you've got another 2x more sitting there to bop the other guy. Three's the number. Triangles again. Who is on overwatch for that armored car? Why are they buttoned up? How did a rocket propelled munition get fired and no one is pouring lead on the position?

 

An aggressive defense will stifle the attack. Unless there's rocket artillery on the way.

 

I was about to suggest peeling off two T34s along your startup edge. One echelons off at the center, the other at AOA 1. The sound contacts should/could confuse your oppo, and that'll get them in position, hull-down, to see what's going on. Oh, EVERYBODY unbuttons until they start getting small arms fire or arty. Eyeballs are more important than armor. The riders the two tanks had should stay by AOA 2 and be split into teams. Those 4 teams are your cannon fodder. Err, "scouts". One moves, one delays THEN moves, the other two overwatch. Then they switch. Bounding overwatch, etc. A tank or two pokes up (same time as the other two T34s) and stays hull down and provides fire support.

 

My .02.

 

Gotta love that defender. Sending a team far up just to bop you on the nose. Nice.

[Bil Hardenberger]

Looks like there is a AT team in the grass Bud... Ken is correct (again, sigh..) I hope you have something overwathcing the movement of that AC, looking forward to the turn report! Good news is that is one less PF he can fire at your tanks!

Unlike Ken though, I wouldn't move any tanks until the picture starts to get more clear... keep that as a nasty surprise.

[Bud Backer]

Sorry for the delay in updates, guys. Some personal stuff that derailed my afternoon and evening since I got home from work. I have exchanged turns and have the first few minutes screen captured (that BA-64B above is from a screen capture at the end of the first minute) but didn't have time to do a write up of each event nor the graphics work. 

Edited August 11, 2015 by Bud_B

[Baneman]

So...just how good is the side armour on a BA-64B?

 

 

Excellent example for that other thread where someone thought that spotting was (immediately) reciprocal ...

[Bud Backer]

By the way, was rocket point cost ever fixed? I remember reading the price was off by a factor of ten... like somebody forgot to punch in the final zero in the price tag.

I don't know what people think they should cost. I bought a small battery of 4 82mm launchers and it cost me ~400-500 points, IIRC?

I don't see how an order of magnitude more expensive would be justifiable.

Edited August 11, 2015 by Bud_B

[Bulletpoint]

I don't know what people think they should cost. I bought a small battery of 4 82mm launchers and it cost me ~400-500 points, IIRC?

I don't see how an order of magnitude more expensive would be justifiable.

I think they used to cost about 37 points and people made house rules not to buy them

[Bud Backer]

I think they used to cost about 37 points and people made house rules not to buy them

hahaha no they certainly were nowhere near as cheap or I'd have bought 6 batteries! And still had points to spare.

[Bud Backer]

Awesome!!! Your oppo has taken bull by the nuts! Or the early squirrel got the horns. Whatever. I love the early ambush. That'll keep ya honest.

Never, never, never, poke your head up unless you've got another 2x more sitting there to bop the other guy. Three's the number. Triangles again. Who is on overwatch for that armored car? Why are they buttoned up? How did a rocket propelled munition get fired and no one is pouring lead on the position?

An aggressive defense will stifle the attack. Unless there's rocket artillery on the way.

I was about to suggest peeling off two T34s along your startup edge. One echelons off at the center, the other at AOA 1. The sound contacts should/could confuse your oppo, and that'll get them in position, hull-down, to see what's going on. Oh, EVERYBODY unbuttons until they start getting small arms fire or arty. Eyeballs are more important than armor. The riders the two tanks had should stay by AOA 2 and be split into teams. Those 4 teams are your cannon fodder. Err, "scouts". One moves, one delays THEN moves, the other two overwatch. Then they switch. Bounding overwatch, etc. A tank or two pokes up (same time as the other two T34s) and stays hull down and provides fire support.

My .02.

Gotta love that defender. Sending a team far up just to bop you on the nose. Nice.

I deserved that bop in the nose.

No overwatch, no. The car was buttoned by choice, as are my tanks. Losing too many commanders and while I always unbutton my western Allies or German tankers, for some reason the Russian ones kept getting pegged by rifle fire. Must be confirmation bias but it seems as if I was losing them disproportionately. No one is pouring lead on the position - yet - in that screenshot because I didn't have eyes on the back of the woods where the shot came from.

I'll do a full write up tonight, and try to get some images up as well.

Edited August 11, 2015 by Bud_B

[Bud Backer]

Looks like there is a AT team in the grass Bud... Ken is correct (again, sigh..) I hope you have something overwathcing the movement of that AC, looking forward to the turn report! Good news is that is one less PF he can fire at your tanks!Unlike Ken though, I wouldn't move any tanks until the picture starts to get more clear... keep that as a nasty surprise.

I agree, Bil, I'm not moving my tanks until I clear the woods of these nasty Panzerfausts/shreks. However, I've made a number of dumb moves at the beginning - as my write up will show.

[Bil Hardenberger]

Bud if you are going to button all your tanks and ACs you have to make sure you at least have some infantry nearby to help identify and suppress any enemy AT teams.