Problems in CMBN V3.11

[A Canadian Cat]

Now, is there something that Charles might be able to tweak here? Perhaps, perhaps not. It is also possible that making a tweak to achieve more predicable ("desired") results in this situation will produce less predictable ("undesirable") outcomes elsewhere since everything is by necessity interconnected. There is no such thing as an isolated branch of the AI pathing that is specific to gaps. Gaps are simply a variable in a mix of dozens and dozens of other variables.

As I've said, pathing will always be twitchy and imperfect to some degree. You have shown us an example of a case where that is true. You can no doubt find others by focusing on gaps or something else that is a chokepoint (the most difficult of all terrain features for the pathing AI to deal with). However, without also documenting all the "correct" things the pathing AI does then we won't have context. Having 1 in 10 pathing decisions go wrong is very different to us than 1 in 100 or 1 in 1000. Based on personal experience with the game and with those playing it, I'm confident that the ratio of good to bad decisions is lopsided in favor of the good. If it wasn't, we'd see thread after thread complaining about pathing and there being no real good advice to mitigate it.

 

Yeah, this is the first time I have had the AI take an odd choice since I learned how to influence it to do what I want.  So, I'm not worried but I'll keep my eye on it.

 

BTW hilarious Path A vs Path B discussion.

[General Jack Ripper]

Which is why we should hope nobody ever invents a time machine!

Steve

 

If I had a time machine, I'd go back in time three days and buy a winning Powerball ticket.

[Battlefront.com]

Yeah, this is the first time I have had the AI take an odd choice since I learned how to influence it to do what I want.  So, I'm not worried but I'll keep my eye on it.

Absolutely. There are situations where the AI weights should be tweaked a bit because of a more-or-less common situation tends to go unfavorably. We've certainly found lots of them to tweak over the last 8+ years of CMx2 development. But we've long since gotten to the point of diminishing returns on improvement. A point where a well intentioned tweak is probably as likely to cause a new problem or aggravate an old one. Then we get into a situation of tail chasing.

 

BTW hilarious Path A vs Path B discussion.

I am to please

Here's a general bit of waypoint advice and why it works.

When you want to make sure a unit goes through a specific path (generally a gap or less desirable terrain feature), making 2 or more waypoints in fairly close proximity will help. The reason it helps is the AI pathing puts a high value on "quickest" path. If you put two points only 24m apart, the chances of it veering too much off a straight line goes down dramatically because anything other than straight line will have a disproportionally negative affect on execution time. Think about it this way... going off 2 Action Spots in a 20 Action Spot path is very, very different than going 1 Action Spot off of a 3 Action Spot path.

The imposed pause at a waypoint isn't too much of an issue if you plan for it. The pausing is directly proportional to how spread out the infantry unit is by the time the lead soldiers arrive at waypoint. The more spread out they are, the longer the early arrivals will sit around and wait for the late arrivals. If you space waypoints strategically with this in mind, you can control spacing and therefore control the pause.

For example, you can order a unit to move 100m through thick terrain and not care about the exact path they take, but care very much what happens after. Presume that this sort of path is going to cause maximum spacing between your soldiers and make sure you plot one or more waypoints in a safe place towards the end of the path. These act as "rally points". You can even issue a PAUSE to increase reliability and coordination. Then from that point you make more waypoints that are fairly shortly spaced so spacing is controlled and nobody sits around for much of any time. Then, if you don't care about pathing specificity, you can once again make more generalized waypoints.

Also keep in mind that the Order you issue has a big factor in what happens. FAST, for example, places more emphasis on speed than consolidation, therefore lead soldiers have more latitude to not wait up for those following. SLOW has the opposite effect.

Most of this stuff players learn intuitively, but it is never a bad idea to have a refresher course

Steve