Buddy Aid way too easy

[Bulletpoint]

To me buddy aid is exactly that.. in the Army we were taught buddy aid for our fellow squad mates.. "buddy, buddy, are you okay?" help them bind wounds, apply tourniquets, mark the dead, take special weapons to help with the mission, etc. then leave them and move on with the assigned task.  I think this is all that's going on here.  That they are removed from the map at this point only indicates they've been dealt with, nothing more.  Nor IMO should there be more in this game for casualty extraction, that is usually done after a fire fight I believe in most cases.

 

Reminds me of that unbelieveably stupid scene in Saving Private Ryan, where the medics are working hard to save some wounded guy's life on the beach, with mortar bombs and bullets kicking up sand all around them.

 

They eventually announce that they saved the guy's life, and then he immediately gets shot in the head. Apparently, this was meant to be comical (?)

[Sublime]

no I dont believe the scene was meant to be comical. I just think if any real thought was put into it was opposed to it being an anecdote or a vignette maybe it was to represent the futility of war.

[sburke]

yeah I think I'd have to agree with Sublime here.  There is nothing in that section meant to be comical, but rather as dramatic as possible.  The futility of trying to save a guy's life in the midst of a torrent of fire, but still they will try because that is what they do.  It is a level of heroism that we don't often see.

[JonS]

Agreed, although in a way it was comical too - the build up of tension, then the sudden and unexpected release "omg omg omg is he going to save him? Can he do it? Yes! He did it! Oh ... wait ..." doesn't really leave you anything to do except laugh. Same with the guy who goes back to fetch his arm. Or the dude who gets a bullet through the helmet, takes it off to examine the hole, everyone tells him how lucky he is, right as he gets a bullet in the brain pan. Eh, maybe not so lucky. I saw all those sequences as a combination of pitch-black humour, the futility of war, and the overwhelming place of luck and chance - rather than skill and experience - in determining who lived and who died.

[Doug Williams]

Anything that makes Buddy Aid any more complicated than it is now would be a negative for me.

[nuzrak]

I don't think there is anything wrong with the way buddy aid is represented in game, it is simple and effectively allows the recovery of weapons and ammo from fallen soldiers; which is realistic enough without overly complicating the whole process. I like to think of it as no more than the guy being stabilized and his gear being redistributed.

 

What I would like to see in the future is buddy aid being worth more under the game hood, in terms of moral levels and possibly even having optional point settings in the editor related to it that effect the game score.

At present other than retrieving weapons there is little or no need to risk troops lives giving it

 

I think this is an area of the game that could be added to on the back end that could provide a great dimension to the overall realism; especially in the modern game titles where the US especially put great emphasis on getting wounded soldiers out of the combat area.

 

I also appreciate that it wouldn't be to everyone's taste, so maybe it could be tied to the 'Iron' difficulty level of the game in some way and give us hardcore guys another reason to use that level instead of 'Elite'  

[womble]

Buddy Aid already has morale effects: I feel better if I make sure I police up my wounded. And I'm not talking about feeling better that all the LMGs are staying on line...

[Erwin]

In Buddy Aid, can SMG's now be picked up?  I know that in the past it was only LMG's and rifles that could be picked up.

[JonS]

SMGs have always been able to be picked up. However, they have the same 'attractiveness score' as a rifle, so d00dz carrying their own rifle - which they signed for at the Q-store - won't ditch that rifle to pick up a musty old SMG covered in someone else's blood and brain matter.

Edited August 6, 2015 by JonS

[womble]

Which, expanding on JonS's post, means pretty much that only pTruppen armed with pistols will grab an SMG off a fallen comrade. Which generally means vehicle crew and officers only, since most other pistol-packers have their own heavy weapon to tote. Using tank crews as ad hoc infantry might be frowned upon in some circles, and good luck getting the Rupert to sully his lily-whites by actually being the one who does the BA... Happens sometimes, but most often it's a trooper who's already got a perfectly satisfactory personal weapon, thank-you-very-much, and no, he's not going to pass it to the ossifer, who'll just go off and get himself and probably the team killed if you give him something actually combat-effective. There's a reason the QM said he could only have that pistol, after all.

[RockinHarry]

The only thing i found a little upset with Buddy aid is when my men keep doing it whereas they are shoot on...

I mean one wounded in a little wood, all my men go prone, a one get up to make Buddy aid, only to be hit ?

Rezexplode the "Normandy v100A.brz" file from Data folder, look in animations/unarmed, rename the "unarmed-idle-prone.ani" file to "unarmed-tend to casualty.ani" and drop that renamed file into data/z folder = prone lying medic. He won´t die that often anymore. Edited August 6, 2015 by RockinHarry

[LukeFF]

Rezexplode the "Normandy v100A.brz" file from Data folder, look in animations/unarmed, rename the "unarmed-idle-prone.ani" file to "unarmed-tend to casualty.ani" and drop that renamed file into data/z folder = prone lying medic. He won´t die that often anymore.

 

Why are you so hung up on this "prone lying medic" thing? I've told you in the past it's something medics just don't do, and for good reason. 

[RockinHarry]

Why are you so hung up on this "prone lying medic" thing? I've told you in the past it's something medics just don't do, and for good reason.

Tell the medic guy in the pic! http://community.battlefront.com/topic/120321-buddy-aid-way-too-easy/?p=1622245

No seriously. What about a compromise? Let the wannabe medic go down in high threat situations and keep it the way it is in less hot areas. Oddly enough, the kneeling medics keep patching up wounded under direct fire, while oftentimes a ricochetted bullet from afar landing in their vicinity, makes them go down (and break off buddy aiding). Maybe tied to whole unit morale level (cautious, rattled...), I don´t know. Beside that, ...I have my medic now who shows a bit more self preservance, without BFC required to change anything. Relax!

[RockinHarry]

Not necessarily to support my own views, or considering the game engine concept, yet an interesting excerpt from the book:

Infantry Combat Medics in Europe, 1944–45 (Tracy Shilcutt)

Chapter 3, Combat Reality

page 50

Doc, as his unit called him, pressed into the earth as he crawled toward a wounded rifleman. German bullets slashed overhead in the darkening battleground and when he finally reached his buddy he knew he would have to work blindly as snipers fired at any light. His initial assessment indicated that he was dealing with a chest wound. So without benefit of sight, Private T. William Bossidy thrust grimy hands inside his comrade’s shirt, following the sticky trail of welling blood to the torn cavity. He could do no more than sprinkle sulfa powder in the wound and staunch the flow of blood before moving on to help other casualties. Doc Bossidy had in fact no education in the medical arts; his journey to the front as a replacement aid man for the 2d Division reflects the often disjointed yet pragmatic ways in which the Army cared for its combat wounded. His schooling in the mysteries of Spam and eggs at Camp Pickett provided absurd preparation for the lifesaving duties facing him as a company aid man.

As the struggle for Europe intensified, the flood of casualties demanded additional front line medical personnel. In response, the Army pulled Bossidy and others like him from kitchens and typewriters, tasking them first with litter bearer’s work. But as the American forces pushed toward the Siegfried Line attrition among company aid men forced the erstwhile cooks and clerks to move beyond transporting the wounded to treating their injured and dying comrades. Following cursory field explanations of bandaging and morphine injections, Bossidy donned the brassards of a front line company aid man. As an initial caregiver, his new duties seemed deceptively simplistic: control bleeding, minimize shock, manage pain. But as he tended to his fellow soldiers he realized how external forces profoundly complicated his seemingly straightforward job. Bossidy’s story, while distinctive in its details, reflects in its whole the chaotic world of each company aid man as he confronted his own unique circumstances. As the first medical contact for the wounded, aid men worked independently of the BAS medical soldiers, traveling with and living among the infantry platoons. Whether trained in the United States or, as in Bossidy’s case, simply initiated on the field, company aid men in European campaigns learned that Army doctrine and training scarcely prepared them for the horrific realities of war. Successful medics rapidly adapted to combat conditions, insuring their own survival as well as that of their comrades. Learning on the go and under fire, they abandoned or radically modified prescribed medical techniques, discovered ways to utilize the changing terrains for their own protection and for the safety of the wounded, and coped with unanticipated long-term problems. Endowed with a spirit of pragmatism, Doc Bossidy, and the thousands of “Docs” like him, performed their crucial role in the crusade to liberate Europe despite the inadequate, or even absent, training.

[RockinHarry]

Interesting find from the US FM 21-11, Basic Field Manual, First Aid for Soldiers, April 7, 1943

· 5. FIRST AID IN Combat - Successful accomplishment of the assigned mission is the aim of battle. The combat soldier will administer first aid only when he can do so without interfering with his combat duties. When administration of first aid in actual combat is possible, usually only those measures will be taken which are immediately necessary to save life. The wounded person should be placed where he

is protected from enemy fire and the elements, marking the spot where he lies so that he can be easily found by Medical Department personnel.

Think it´s exactly the guidelines that CM buddy aid is based on, thus it´s good and realistic.

Edit: Another interesting read is FM 7-30, SUPPLY AND EVACUATION, THE INFANTRY REGIMENT; SERVICE COMPANY AND MEDICAL DETACHMENT

Both FM´s can be found at: http://cgsc.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/search/searchterm/First%20Aid%20for%20Soldiers/mode/all/order/nosort/page/2

Edited August 10, 2015 by RockinHarry

[Erwin]

FWIW there is a new medic animation/graphic over at CMMODS which shows the medic lying down.  However, if the game engine calculates his exposure based on his default kneeling graphics stance, then this new mod could confuse/mislead players

[RockinHarry]

FWIW there is a new medic animation/graphic over at CMMODS which shows the medic lying down.  However, if the game engine calculates his exposure based on his default kneeling graphics stance, then this new mod could confuse/mislead players

Answered this in detail over here

http://community.battlefront.com/topic/120405-question-about-infantry-animation-files/?p=1625543

I encourage testing and playing with this! It doesn´t break anything and when in doubt or don´t like it, simply delete the ani file (unarmed-tend to casualty.ani) from the data/z folder again. Same goes for the changed cower animation file (kar98k-cower.ani).

Note: The cower filename is somewhat misleading, but actually this is the games generic file for ALL ingame cower animations, applied to germans and allies alike.

Would like to get some more feedback about this, particularly whether the files also work in CMFI and CMRT (games I don´t have yet).

[mjkerner]

Harry, they worked great for me in CMBN.  I don't know about any different effects or not, but the cowering fix at least looks better to me.  I did a quick check in the animation files in CMFI and CMRT, and they appear to be named the same.  Haven't tried the mods out in either game yet, though.

[RockinHarry]

Harry, they worked great for me in CMBN.  I don't know about any different effects or not, but the cowering fix at least looks better to me.  I did a quick check in the animation files in CMFI and CMRT, and they appear to be named the same.  Haven't tried the mods out in either game yet, though.

Thanks Mark! Every helping hand for getting these animation files more thoroughly tested, would be appreciated!