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Or would it be more moral to have a more representative pricing policy instead of a classic capitalist one? It' s difficult answear that, i think. Is anyone interested in derailing this thread into a lengthy philosophical discussion about captialism vs. fair trade vs. marxism? I will be in front of my PC the whole afternooon, got some office work to do.

 

True, but it is way simpler than that.  The way it is now we have what four or five forum posters who constantly complain they are not getting value for their money.  If they changed to what you are suggesting we would still have to endure those very same **** ***** because they would argue that because there were x more units in one game and y different terrain the price differential was wrong.  And then we would have a whole new class of **** ****** complaining that why should the have to pay for all this content just because they want CMBN and not CMRT and its not fair.  Add to that the simply confused posters trying to make sense of it all and not understanding how the pricing works.  On top of that - the idea is just silly

 

Like imagine reading a restaurant menu where the Caesar salad is more expensive than the chicken Caesar salad because the work of chopping up the lettuce and the making of the sauce is covered by those ordering the Caesar salad so the cost of the chicken Caesar is just the chicken.  Yeah I know it is not the same but think it makes just about as much sense - i.e. none what so ever.

 

I'll just add a few **** ****** to my ignore list and move on :)

 

An understandable and explainable pricing strategy is its own reward. :D  We have enough confused posters just because of the number of choices in the store.

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The best feature regarding maps is the editor overlay that was introduce with the CMx2 v2.0 upgrade, IMO. Do you have any idea how awful it was to build highly accurate maps from satelite images in CMSF? I had to print out the satelite images i wanted to use, draw a coordinate grid on them and then transfer the terrain square per square into the Scenario Editor. But now, with the editor overlay, makeing maps from satelite images is so fast, it' s really cool.

 

Oh yeah that was a big one.  Really big.  Before that I tried and then gave up making scenarios.  It was a total write off I tried twice but just could not bring my self to do it.  Now it is not the barrier - time is and I have two completed scenarios and others at various stages of completion.  Yeah I know not very prolific but it did not just help me out.

 

The thing is this highlights something else important. How much you think a new release is worth might depend a lot on exactly what features they added.  There is a large portion of people who could not care less about map overlays but for me was a game changing feature. 

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I'm not so sure about this.  The scripted AI does some things quite well actually and it appears to be their design philosophy. The kind of thing you are talking about is not really compatible with a scripted AI.

 

Ugh no. Triggers and timed events give AI only a very general order, it being able to make use of some dynamic behavior on the way to its goal won't break anything. After all that's exactly what tactical-level AI does in the game

 

I am not sure what you are talking about here.  Of course my big problem with campaigns is the are not playable by PBEM so I spend nearly no time with them so that could be why I'm not getting it.   Can you elaborate.

 

I mean a strategic layer where you are able to pick which mission to go after next / capture which territory. Other wargames either do it turn-based way where you strike, then enemy and so on or in real time where while you do 1 mission something else is happening in other places - and so on so forth. Imagination is the limit.

 

The key point here is that it ultimately makes base campaign content replayable. Thus far all CM campaigns are "completed once, forgot forever".

Yuck, this has been discussed before lots and I really do no think that will ever happen. 1) those maps sucked - really sucked 2) random selection of prepared maps works really well. I honestly do not see why any one would want randomly generated maps now.  Once you have a big enough pool of maps, random selection is just so much better.

 

random generator when made correctly can produce pretty tactically interesting maps. Prepared map selection runs out very soon and you have to play same scenario basically over and over again - there can be 80 QB maps but only 5 will fit "medium battle" criteria f.e. Nobody says random gen should be CM1x level

Edited by kraze
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Thread hijack attempt successful. Does anyone remember what this discussion began as? Hint: something more interesting than BFC Pricing Debate LXXVIII.

BTW, after adding up all post CMSF changes, subtracting reused content then factoring in the annual cost of keeping Charles's disembodied brain alive I have calculated the proper cost of new games to be $53.17. For shame, BFC, for shame.

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LOL yeah I suppose it was successful.

 

I do not agree that the original discussion is more interesting.  Some one found a bug - cool good one.  It was an interesting bug too actually next others started debating if it was an intentional slight against Russians.  OMG seriously you guys are paranoid!  So the thread got really uninteresting and silly and then we started talking about pricing which again got pretty silly.  If the discussion stayed sane and on topic this whole thing would have been over in a page.

 

At any rate you are right - this has become a bit of a time waster - time to move on....

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Off topic? Maybe. But I've just copied Wiggum's coding and, using my beta status, I sent it to Charles. I expect we'll be hearing the world-wide echo as Charles slaps his forehead and yells "D'OH!" I wonder how he'll feel knowing he's wasted all the time before now?

 

:)

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...no.

The discussion about the lack of progress, the recycling and pricing began when someone pointed out that:

"[...]all T-64/72/90 hulls come from the original T-72s from Shock Force"

Edited by Wiggum15
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...no.

The discussion about the lack of progress, the recycling and pricing began when someone pointed out that:

"[...]all T-64/72/90 hulls come from the original T-72s from Shock Force"

 

You make it sound like the recycling of 3D models is somehow unethical and/or unique to Battlefront. 

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Wiggun the one problem.. well one of the problems with your posts is you always start with the assumption you actually know anything about what you are spouting off about - cases in point:
 

- drones
Invisible, maybe just a F16 with another sound file, i cant be to much work if you have aircraft fire already modeled ingame

- mgs fire random numbers of bullets now
Believe it or not, for me thats just a minor change, something a coder does in one or two hours.

- precision artillery
is just a shell without to much dispersion, i doubt that this was much work...

- anti air craft fire
Its just something firing into the air, planes are invisible so it could be as simple as a randomly generated number. If that number is >x then the plane was hit...minor change

- flame weapons
Only avaiable in RT, this was already present in CMx1

from your perspective, what the big "new" feature of the next full price CMx2 game ?


On every one of those you make an unsupported proclamation that you actually don't have any data on. As to the flame in CMx1, what the hell does that have to do with CMx2. the engine is totally different, the AI code is totally different. Hey I bought apples yesterday at the market. Mangos are just another fruit, why didn't they have those?

 

Arguing with you is like arguing with a fart.  You can't get anywhere and it just stinks.  I think I am done here.  You have a nice day grumbling away about life and never appreciating what you have.  I pity you, but I won't be sucked down to your level of pessimism and angst.

 

I am realistic about what is possible and the game still rocks.  There will be some new stuff, there will be some stuff ported over and the game will friggin rock and I will be able to recreate combat in the Western front post September 1944.  It will not be drastically different from the games I have and I am happy about that.  I have at least some clue as to what goes in to making it and I know what things will be different. To put it bluntly I actually have more info than you do and I am quite happy with the game as it is coming together.  I will be pre-ordering and I don't even have to.

 

You I expect will not be buying it.  Fine, that is your loss.  Hopefully but doubtfully you will then go away and find some other game forum to prognosticate on.  Why you are still here is beyond me considering your feelings on the game and the company.  Obviously the act of complaining fills some emotional niche for you.  Sad, but pretty apparent.  If I didn't like this game as much as you say you don't I wouldn't be here.  I'd go find something I did like.  But that would be a healthy approach.

Edited by sburke
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Maybe these are "unsupported proclamation"...as "unsupported" as your assumption that it was tons of work to include these "features".

Actually i like the game, but dont like the lack of progress and BFC's business model...ever considered that ?!

For you, everyone who does not love the game and says "WOW, GREAT" to everything BFC does and releases is a sad troll who does have no clue how much hard work (should we all pity BFC...) they put into these games.

Someone who loves a company and cheers everything they do is usually called a fanboy, now i dont say you are one but many here at the forum are very very close...

I most likely will buy the Bulge game anyway...why you ask ?

Because i dont have to care about 55$, simple as that.

If they would release a massive improved CMx3 engine i would pay 150$ for it !

I want BFC to move forward, you want them to sit in a corner selling the same game with a new varnishing forever.

Iam ranting about CMx2 since 2007 and i will carry on because to improve they need guys like me who DONT cheer them like 14 year old cheerleaders.

Oh, and i know they dont care about the forum "troll" with his "rants"...but they are ignoring their cheerleaders too so i can live with that.

Edited by Wiggum15
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For you, everyone who does not love the game and says "WOW, GREAT" to everything BFC does and releases is a sad troll who does have no clue how much hard work (should we all pity BFC...) they put into these games.

 

 

Could not agree more.

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Actually i like the game, but dont like the lack of progress and BFC's business model...ever considered that ?

 

Ohh, Battlefronts business model! We havent discussed that for at least a month or so. This just never gets boring it seems.

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Iam ranting about CMx2 since 2007 and i will carry on because to improve they need guys like me who DONT cheer them like 14 year old cheerleaders.

Oh, and i know they dont care about the forum "troll" with his "rants"...but they are ignoring their cheerleaders too so i can live with that.

Self contradictory as is most of your argument.  Frankly neither you nor I represent most of their customer base so to BF we are more or less background noise.  I think we actually agree on that!

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Wiggum15,

 

I certainly appreciate that your intentions are good; that your heart's in the right place, but you seem to be iterating comparing kumquats with jackfruit! A key part of your argument appears to be based on the acutely flawed premise that your ability to run a super demanding FPS on your rig shows CM, which you perceive as far less of a load on the computer, it isn't--think of all the moving parts and vast numbers of computations, ought to be able to perform like that. But you left out something very important, Your shooters are undoubtedly running multi-core, whereas CM, no matter how stellar your rig, runs single core only. Steve is well aware of this problem but has said it's going to be a time consuming and expensive matter to address. From the very beginning with CMBO, CM has always been designed to run, not on computers with warp drive and direct neural interfaces, but on the typical PC or Mac when the game was created. If CM will run on the computer already on hand, this greatly increases the likelihood of a sale, since buying the game doesn't automatically require a new computer in order to play it. When CMBO was designed, BTS (now BFC) achieved the incredible technical feat of putting a revolutionary 3-D game out that ran on a 200 MHz PC with no graphic card at all. Obviously the goalpost has been moved a bunch of times since. This is but one of many issues which I believe should inform your arguments regarding what you want from CM. Meanwhile, if you can do it without wrecking your computer, try playing Ryse: Son of Rome using only one core!

 

Regards,

 

John Kettler

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I know CMx2 uses only one CPU core.

Thats entirely BFC's fault and if a upgrade to multi core support is not possible for CMx2 at least for Cmx3 its a must have.

Anyway, even on a single core i think BFC could optimize the code/engine to run smoother even with added features.

CMx2 as a engine is long past its date of expiry. BFC should already be in development of a new engine but i doubt they are.

If they cant afford working on a new engine...what about kickstarter or Steam early Access...so many possibilitys...

But it looks like they use all avaiable manpower for "new" after "new" CMx2 games.

Edited by Wiggum15
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Anyway, even on a single core i think BFC could optimize the code/engine to run smoother even with added features.

Wiggum, it is often said that the definition of intelligence is knowing how much you do not know. With that in mind please re-read what you have just written and think again about how it makes you sound.

Most people on these forums want all the same improvements that you do. They are not disagreeing with those ideas, they are pointing out that it isn't as easy to do as you keep asserting that 'you think' it is. If you don't like that, you have two interesting options:

1. Start a religion which teaches that, yes, the world is as Guru St. Wiggum (peace be upon Him) Thinks it is, that He has Thought that BFC represents the sinful twin heads of the Daemun of Coding Incompetence and Overpriced Wargames and then base yourself in Britain so that you can sue everyone on these forums who disagrees.

2. Learn how to code a game engine which is quick and easy to update seven years later and how to make AI pixeltruppen act like human soldiers did in the 1940s, then come back, prove that you were right and everyone else was wrong and bathe in the respect you earn for doing so.

Every other option IS boring, because I think it is, so please keep it to yourself.

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I'm at home today. Tomorrow, I leave on a 6 day trip. My pool pump blew a 2" line, putting about 350 cubic feet of water into my shed/pool house. My 20 year old is almost done with his 3rd complete automobile rebuild, but wants some help wiring some O2 sensors. My neighbor invited me to a cookout. One of my gaming rigs has some leftover antivirus files and the antivirus gurus would like me to run some diagnostics and post them. A tree fell on my roof last week and there are some finishing touches needed to repair/replace the shingles and the drip-edge. Today is a weight-lifting day. My chainsaw carb is acting up and needs a bit of a tune. An outdoor power line has an intermittent hot-to-ground fault; I need to pull a new line (rodent damage inside the conduit?). I still need to clean two of my firearms after a fun day shooting yesterday (I -did- clean all the others). I need to run a backup to an external drive on one of my computers; routine, but can't get lazy. My generator was put away after a power outage without running the carb dry (wife and younger boy were at home); I need to run it dry so it won't gum up. My kids' computer is fairly screaming for a new cpu/mobo; I've got it picked out (i5/z97), and I just need to buy it on sale today. I've already gone to the outdoor big-box store to buy replacement soccer-mom chairs and re-up on some ammo. I need to fill up two of my 5-gallon gasoline containers. My wife wants to have a bottle of wine and watch a movie with me tonight. The belt tensioner bearing on the '03 Honda Pilot is squealing and needs to be replaced. There's a pbem waiting for my attention.

 

 

According to the Wiggum15 school of thought, I should just get it all done.

 

If I say today's a pretty damn good day and nothing on that list is =really= needed, I'm a fanboy.

 

 

Just sayin' that some things just can't be squeezed into a day. I think Wiggum would be surprised to know that BFC would probably LIKE to get everything on his list done, but they only have so many man-hours available.

 

As for me, well, I got the 2" line fixed already. Next, I'm going to crawl under a car and wire up some O2 sensors. ....After I return my pbem turn. ;)  And I don't know what I'll do after that.

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what the hell Ken, it is my birthday, I expect your first order of business is to lift a glass of something tasty and toast it.  The rest of that stuff you should delegate.  To Wiggum15.  He seems to have an unlimited power to accomplish things we mortals can only dream about.

 

Oh and regarding that water, could you send it our way.  the state is a bit short.

Edited by sburke
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@ c3k

Oh come on.

You argument is the same as sburke's.

- BFC needs more time

Really ?!

8 Years should be enough to work on the basic CMx2 flaws and shortcomings and add game changing new features.

- BFC has no money

If i look at what some Indie Devs are pulling of at the moment i cant let that count

- BFC is a small team

There is another small wargame developing team from Kharkov, Ukraine...just look at what they are able to do !

- The game is the best tactical battle simulator anyway

Actually i would say no it is not. And i think sooner then later BFC will realize that they got much to comfortable in their little warm niche.

Edited by Wiggum15
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As for me, well, I got the 2" line fixed already. Next, I'm going to crawl under a car and wire up some O2 sensors. ....After I return my pbem turn. ;)  And I don't know what I'll do after that.

 

Well isnt 4th July an important holyday in the US, with lot of fireworks and parades and stuff? I suggest you meet some friends, drink some beer and blow up some firerworks.

 

EDIT: And dont forget the BBQ!

Edited by agusto
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- The game is the best tactical battle simulator anyway

Actually i would say no it is not. And i think sooner then later BFC will realize that they got much to comfortable in their little warm niche.

Then please for all that is holy, go play THAT game and leave us in peace.

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