Where is the revolution?

[Scipio]

I remember the time when CMSF was developed and what was promised about the revolutionary new CMx2 engine and the various battlefields (Space Lobsters) that would be possible.

So let me see...

CMSF was indeed a great step and revolutionary scenario, justsuffered from engine 1.0 issues

CMA offered another interesting scenario...with 1.0 issues.

But since than:

CMBN brought us back the good old mood from CMBO. 1944

CMFI is mostly like CMBN with a little different timeline and weather. 1943/1944

CMRT brought us back to the East Front. 1944 again.

CMBS is kind of CMSF with the advantages of the 3.0 engine

Next title likely be West Front 1944/1945

And then?

Where is the revolution? Where is an early war game, or even something that is not WW2 or Modern USA against the world?

CMx2 is a good game, no question. It just becomes technically a bit more outdated with each year.

[Scipio]

P.S. (I accidentally hit the send button): there ain't even technical revolutions anymore. AA unit's are sold as big step...while there are not even aircrafts in the sky. Flamethrowers look more like CMx1 as 2015. Infantry animation has not been changed much since CMSF. An operational layer, or even something else then a boring stats page that leaves me with a 'who cares' feeling at the end of a battle? Each time I turn on CM I think 'it could be so much more'. That's why I don't play it very often anymore. What's kind of pity.

[womble]

The revolution was the advent of CMx2. Since then, it's been evolution. The current model offers the possibility of progression, so there won't be another revolution until BFC feel that progression is inadequate.

 

It is not a banana republic, with a revolution every year or two and a "new bestest thing totally different to the old thing, which was the worst" round every corner. That's simply impossible for a game as complex as CM and a coder base as small as BFC, even if it were desirable.

[MG TOW]

^{I think you present a fair case that could warrant an off topic discussion as long as it is constructive. I play alot of different games so I have a good basis of comparison. You have brought up issues relating to graphics for the most part. I don't want to do alot of side by side comparison to other games. But CMBS unit models, tanks and soldiers are really good, better than the other game that gets used as a comparison.  And animations have changed since CMBN. I picked up on this, troops with more postures, that sort of thing. True, the distant ground for maps is a painted in the corner situation that probably won't change . There are games out there with great graphics CM could aspire to, but those games either have poor unit control, or lousy game play, or maybe good terrain graphics with lousy models.  OK so I basically stated CM holds its own and has improved somewhat.}

 

^{But like you I do get concerned if an evolutionary leap will occur anytime in the future. That would be great.  While knowing the whole nature of computing is changing so fast, and what this means to this niche game is an unknown.}

[L0ckAndL0ad]

Huh?

 

http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=338&Itemid=583

[Stagler]

Pshh, new theatres?

 

Multiplayer framework NAO!

Edited June 23, 2015 by Stagler

[General Jack Ripper]

Something tells me once Battlefront have finished their current family of games, they'll kick off the new CMx3 engine with something really off the wall, like finally giving us "Space Lobsters of Doom!"

I've been waiting for that game for 12 years now, Battlefront!

Get on it already!

[Kieme(ITA)]

Problem is, how far will they go with this series (2x), I mean, how many theaters will they cover, how many more games will they make? There's still a lot of potential titles, will they stop somewhere or will try to cover them all?

 

1939-1943 western front

1941-1943 eastern front

1940-1943 north africa

korea

vietnam

arab-israeli wars

shock force 2 (?)

 

Will they cut somewhere? How many more titles can we foresee with the actual engine (given the improvements it gets at every release)?

 

 

Even if you take only the first three obvious ones (to fill up the WW2 theaters), there's room for 3 main games and at least two modules each.

Let's see, there's the main game Bulge coming. Then we room for at least two modules for RT and BS, one or two for Bulge, one for FI... That's one main game coming (Bulge) plus room for 6 modules (at least)...

That would be something like 4 main titles and 12 modules with the actual game engine (upgraded at each main release)... that's stuff for 4-6 years at least...

Edited June 23, 2015 by Kieme(ITA)

[MikeyD]

There's a joke of mine from my old hobby modeling days.

Whenever there was a hobbyist survey for the most in-demand vehicles for kits the answer was always "The ones they haven't done yet!" They'd demand a superior kit of the T55 then when it was presented to them they wouldn't buy it. instead they demanded a kit of the Centurion - when it was on the shelves they wouldn't buy that either. The same pattern over and over. You can demand with waving fists that CM produce a title covering the Chaco war between Bolivia and Paraguay but nobody is under the illusion you'd actually buy it when the title comes out. I recall a fair percentage of the original CMBO players refused categorically to purchase CMBB because nobody on the map was speaking English. Yes, that was the reason they gave.

[General Jack Ripper]

I don't know about you, but I would definitely buy Combat Mission: Space Lobsters of Doom!

Imagine, Infantry and Tanks taking on giant lobsters with laser claws and spaceships!

Every time I imagine it, it looks like this:

 

http://youtu.be/hGxb3Yx7JYk

 

Now tell me that wouldn't be the best game ever!

[GAZ NZ]

Hey Scipio

 

Haven't seen you around for a while since we played a PBM 10 years ago lol.

 

yeah graphics are a bit behind but the game play is pretty good.

That's what its all about to me generally.

CMBS is pretty good and I recommend playing it and modding it.

 

There are too many fancy pants games for me that have rubbish game play and look pretty.

But there is a place for decent graphics - I appreciate what you are saying.

I think the BF guys if they used there game play development with a group who are masters of animations and graphics it would be awesome.

 

I still think they should get the licence for Warhammer 40k and such and develop that lol

Animations will need improving in the future.

If they don't they will likely lose there market.

As much as I love playing these it is an older engine.

Game play can only get so far with the graphics engine they are using now.

 

That's something they probably realize and will look at in the future.

 

It is better than CMBO and CMBB lol

[Lethaface]

IMO the revolution is CMBN being up to date with CMBS, engine wise. Too bad that ship has sailed for CMSF, although I hope CMSF 2 will make it one day (++ if original content is still usable).

I understand your point Scipio, there are many changes from CMSF to CMBS but there are plenty of things still the same or similar. Graphics and UI mostly so. Sometimes people long for a fresh experience even if the current one isn't bad ;-)

 

Personally I think the graphics can look very good in the right circumstances, other circumstances less so. The gameplay has kept me coming back since 2007, unfortunately since this year my time budget hasn't allowed me to play at all. Sorry for any PBEM partner waiting for my files and reading this

Edited June 25, 2015 by Lethaface

[slysniper]

The Revolution will never come!!!

I always like the attitudes people post about where this game should be and why is it not there.

Well in your terms, for a Revolution, you need a Army.

If you have not noticed, BF is a fire team, I don't think they have made it to squad status yet, well maybe. But platoon size is not looking to ever happen.

hard to win a Revolution with only a Squad. All they are doing is trying to stay alive with the fire fight of keeping their business going.

[womble]

 

I still think they should get the licence for Warhammer 40k and such and develop that lol

 

You are joking, right?

[Rokossovski]

 . . . You can demand with waving fists that CM produce a title covering the Chaco war between Bolivia and Paraguay but nobody is under the illusion you'd actually buy it when the title comes out. . . .

 

I would TOTALLY buy Combat Missions: Chaco War.  But I'm a CM slut that buys anything, so my approval doesn't amount to much.

[Cpl Steiner]

I sometimes get tired of CM titles but always find myself returning eventually, because there is something about CM that no other games have.

 

With Mods, the game graphics are actually pretty decent in my opinion, especially the actual units. The terrain itself is a bit bland though. I played a hunting game recently (Cabela Big Game Hunter Pro Hunts) and the terrain in that game is incredible. If CM titles could somehow have a revolution in the depiction of the battlefield environment that would go a long way towards improving the graphics.

 

Another revolution would be if they hired some sort of computer AI guru who was well versed in the very latest AI design approaches and overhauled the AI. The scripted AI, even with triggers, is something that limits the game for me. I would love to see a truly dynamic AI that makes use of its C3 Net, such that units reposition to engage identified enemy that are not in LOS based purely on the AI's assessment of the situation.

 

In terms of new game families, there is plenty of scope still to explore. I would personally love to see some of the African wars explored such as the Congo and Angola in the 60s and 70s.

Edited June 26, 2015 by Cpl Steiner

[Currahee150]

Ok...so where did the "Space Lobsters of Doom" inside joke begin? I see it EVERYWHERE. 

Even in my dreams. 

Oops. 

[MikeyD]

 

 I would personally love to see some of the African wars explored such as the Congo and Angola in the 60s and 70s.

 

Years ago I put had together a big central African mod pack for CMSF. To be played Red vs Red. It changed the whole nature of the game. I was rather proud of it at the time. its frightening to think how many years ago that was. The thing's still up on repository.

[Cpl Steiner]

Years ago I put had together a big central African mod pack for CMSF. To be played Red vs Red. It changed the whole nature of the game. I was rather proud of it at the time. its frightening to think how many years ago that was. The thing's still up on repository.

 

Hi MikeyD. I am pretty sure I downloaded that mod. I remember it being very well done.

 

Here's an interesting fact I only discovered today. The film "The Wild Geese" (mercenary force contracted to rescue African leader from captivity get shafted by employers) included in the cast a guy called Ian Yule as one of the mercenaries hired for the operation. Ian Yule actually fought as a mercenary in the Congo under Col. "Mad" Mike Hoare.

 

Any game depicting the wars in Africa in the de-colonisation period and the later Cold War interventions would need to do it delicately to avoid any accusations of racism but I think we are all grown ups and would understand that a game of tactical combat set in Africa would be about the combat and forces involved and not the politics.

Edited June 26, 2015 by Cpl Steiner

[sburke]

Hell we have a game(s) that includes the Nazi army, how more sensitive can one get? 

[sburke]

Another revolution would be if they hired some sort of computer AI guru who was well versed in the very latest AI design approaches and overhauled the AI. The scripted AI, even with triggers, is something that limits the game for me. I would love to see a truly dynamic AI that makes use of its C3 Net, such that units reposition to engage identified enemy that are not in LOS based purely on the AI's assessment of the situation.

 

I think you just described Phil.  If you think his strength was MAC stuff... nope.  Not to say he doesn't but you'd be off the mark.

[Cpl Steiner]

I don't know about you, but I would definitely buy Combat Mission: Space Lobsters of Doom!

Imagine, Infantry and Tanks taking on giant lobsters with laser claws and spaceships!

Every time I imagine it, it looks like this:

 

http://youtu.be/hGxb3Yx7JYk

 

Now tell me that wouldn't be the best game ever!

 

I think the scenario victory conditions might be a bit - unbalanced.

 

US Army:

- Exit at least 30% of force off map for 100 pts

- Destroy Martian force (impossible)

 

Martian Army:

-  Destroy US force for 100 pts

-  Don't catch a cold!

[Wiggum15]

Only on the BFC forums can a totally legitimate post about lack of progress since 2007 turn into a discussion about Space Lobsters...

[General Jack Ripper]

Ok...so where did the "Space Lobsters of Doom" inside joke begin? I see it EVERYWHERE. 

Even in my dreams. 

Oops. 

It was already an established meme when I arrived at these forums back in 2003. It's one of those things that has entered the common consciousness, and no longer has a beginning or an end. It simply goes on forever, just like the Thread That Shall Not Be Named.

 

I think the scenario victory conditions might be a bit - unbalanced.

 

US Army:

- Exit at least 30% of force off map for 100 pts

- Destroy Martian force (impossible)

 

Martian Army:

-  Destroy US force for 100 pts

-  Don't catch a cold!

Balance is for wussies

[sburke]

Wherever it is, it will not be televised.