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Help with russians


Waltz

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So I have been trying to get my head around the Russians, after a couple of false starts where I tried to use them like the US and get my long range sniping on I switched to trying to do more set piece attacks with some serious artillery support.

 

Apart from my generalship screw ups the main issue I am having is spotting the Americans, it feels like unless they actually stand in the open on a clear day or I am literally on top of them I can't spot them.

 

In one of my latest outings I am defending against a US attack so I put out a trip line of scouts and snipers, the best I have got before most of them have been killed is a ghost contact. One unit of snipers was killed by a tank they never even saw...they where snuck up on by a tank while hiding in woods!

 

Basically help! IS there some way I can actually get eyes on the US without resorting to dropping artillery on every location they could be hiding?

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A few ideas:

 

-first of all, if possible, use buildings, US vehicles have excellent thermals, and they will spot any infantry in the woods at less than 1000m (I consider this a bit of an exageration but that's how it is in game now), the buildings will give you much more cover and concealment.

 

-try to use more the "hide" command, helps a lot reducing the visibility of your troops.

 

-UAVs are a very good choice against US, as they do have a good spotting ability against enemy vehicles, while US have limited AA assets.

 

Other than these remember to:

use high motivated troops, with high training levels, and troops with binoculars.

Edited by Kieme(ITA)
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I have played a number of battles as the Russians, and one as the U.S. The difference in spotting capabilities are startling. Unfortunately I think this is quite realistic. Which means a Russian player has to be very cagey and use his infantry to do a lot of spotting work that the U.S. Player gets from his vehicles.

 

I still struggle with this and I believe many others do too so your experience is not unusual.

Edited by Bud_B
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youre infantry is deadly to US armor if you can get them close enough.

also

khrizanthema. put it in keyhole snipe spots. khriz paired with BMPs that pump smoke the khriz often will use radar and salvo fire thru smoke. note thia often for whatever reason epic fails amd khriz doesnt seem to use its radar.

your atgms. kornet teams.

mixed mines.

su25s are cheap and light target ensures strafing runs. scours US armor optics.

Try to ambush abrams with pairs or more of T90AMs. though ive killed two with one (my personal record so far) you gotya be really cagey and move a lot.all Russ equip uses laser beams with abrams this means your tank acquires abrams pops smoke and pivots twda threat very often. This is why ambushes for abrams aee essential at close range.

Dknt trust your BMPS to use their ATGM theyll let you down.

BMP bttn tac groups have 2 152mm cannon batteries attached. that with TRPs can mean US ibfantry ia decomated by end of battle with a constant moving 'linus frm snoopy' cloud of general or airburst arty. it also screws with enemy armor subsystems.

the tunguska blows up if a mouse farts in china. if it spots an abrams first not only will the abrams subsystems proly get completely scoured but the absolute hail of 30mm means the abrams wont fkre back theyre just so overwhelmed or taking so many hits. if they have a partner bradley or abrams or soldier with jav your tunguskas done though.

Edited by Sublime
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Basically help! IS there some way I can actually get eyes on the US without resorting to dropping artillery on every location they could be hiding?

 

What Sublime said.

 

Plus I would add the Russian Zala UAV.  The US cannot shoot it down.  The other two Russian UAVs the US are able to shoot down.  Because of this reason sometimes there are house rules against using the Zala.  If a house rule does not ban the Zala it will be an eye in the sky for you.  

 

Also offensive use of smoke.  I have not used this myself yet but I had it used against me in a recent PBEM game. (Sublime :angry: )  Some Russian vehicles shoot a smoke screen 30 or 40 meters? in front of the vehicles.  They can do this multiple times.  (I think the T-90AM can do the smoke thing three times)  My opponent then advanced quickly behind multiple smoke screens with a lot of air burst arty to suppress/kill Javelin teams.  Very impressive to watch.  It was similar to an old Warsaw Pact training/propaganda video.  If the wind cooperates this can be an effective tactic.         

Edited by MOS:96B2P
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Another idea regarding BMP-3 especially. Make sure to use them not with only the two crew members onboard. I usually put a team of two that I detatch from any infantry squad (usually I tag out of the squad a "scout team") one of those two soldiers will occupy the commander's position in the BMP-3 and will surely improve your spotting ability.

It's a costly trick but can be useful if you need to use your BMP-3 as a bronegruppa.

 

Side note: remember that MTLBs are the most "mole" vehicles of the entire universe.

Edited by Kieme(ITA)
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Yes yes true, but for the BMP-2 you got a similar problem as for the BMP-3, you'd better have an additional man inside if your crew has 2 people only.

When using Russians, the BMP-2M is the most expensive IFV, but it's also the only one having a CITV Thermal, I have yet to play with these. 

 

Despite being a big fan of the concepts of T-64BV and T-64 Bulat, I had only disappointment with them, mainly due to their spotting inability.

Edited by Kieme(ITA)
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Side note: remember that MTLBs are the most "mole" vehicles of the entire universe.

Im sorry the cultural reference is lost on me. Im a foreigner  ;) Are you saying MTLB's are bad? Personally Ive always thought of them as a toilet that wants to be a tank. Am I far off?

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Yes yes true, but for the BMP-2 you got a similar problem as for the BMP-3, you'd better have an additional man inside if your crew has 2 people only.

 

I think this may explain some of the behavior I saw with BMPs while fighting in the woods.  Next time I will try to put a scout team in the BMP with the two man crew.  

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Not bad as MTLB, but T-64BV and BMP-2 are also semi-blinded vehicles IMO :(

Wors, i had bulat not spoting a btr-82 in a city, front of him who where shootingfor 3 turn kpvt at him -_-. Yes it was havy rain , but still i dont find that excuse acceptable!. The thing in this game, at least for the armor is that you will rarely see a "fair" fight (by that i just meas exchange of fire). Most of the time , the tank with better optic will spot yours and kill it before yours see him , wich make sence. The thing is 9 out of ten that will also happen if your tank is hull down and his is plain sight in the midle of a road or a field he will still spot you first. So in the end you must be creative to fight him. Like they said ambush (and if youre playing with "blindier" tank like bulat/64 bv) short ranger as even if they are expertly placed with an excellent fov they will get kill without seing what kill them. Also even if you dont see the us inf and its a dangerous tactic but the russian have a lot off good anti inf weaponery like the ags or the 100mm of the bmp3 so if you feel like it some order to fire may help in some case!

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Now maybe harsh, but I belive there's something wrong with the T-64, both versions, in terms of spotting there might be bugs.

 

On the BMP-3 and 100mm be careful though, BMP-3 have the bad habit of using their ATGM as area of effect weapon before passing to the ABHE (order shoot area).

Edited by Kieme(ITA)
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Now maybe harsh, but I belive there's something wrong with the T-64, both versions, in terms of spotting there might be bugs.

 

On the BMP-3 and 100mm be careful though, BMP-3 have the bad habit of using their ATGM as area of effect weapon before passing to the ABHE (order shoot area).

I really hope so for the 64, at last for the bulat, i just dont take them anymore if i face tank and even, i tend to be jumby when facing even bmp2 as im not sure who will come on top because of their blindness. 

 

Also i didnt know for the bmp3! Funny behavior that they would use their missile for aoe fire , knowing that at last will save me some atgm!!!!

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yeah im starting to like 2Ms better too.. :/

With the T64 i think a lot of you are makibg the mistake of using 50 year old tanks like tanks from 20-30 years ago. A lot changed in those times. Personally Ive had pretty good luck with T64s. But key points - unbutton them. Only tank in game i consistently do it for besides T72. this will obviously make them spot a lot better.

i also when attackibg moving them slowly forward park them hull down or in keyholes along suspected enemy attack routes etc. otherwise you have to keep getting tanks and maybe arty to toss smoke around so they can advance QUICKLY to a spot say between two houses and sit. basically then you pop them out and let them fire at enemy arnor when a good chance presents itself then run back to your hidey hole. Generally works for me..

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1) U.S. vehicles have better thermals

2) U.S. crews by default have crack or veteran experience, Russian crews - regular or green. 

 

That's why they always spot faster. When Russian vehicle is in defence also. In game Bradley can kill 2-3 BMP-3s before they spot it.

So:

 

1) Don't expose your vehicles, position them behind hills or dense (dense!) forest lines.

2) Always send forward infantry spotters, make sure that contact info is transmitted to vehicle crews through CnC chain.

3) After that - shoot'n'scoot from flanks.

4) BMPs don't have commander when infantry is dismounted. So place PL (or inf team) in BMP if you want to improve spotting. (but you risk to loose platoon leader) IRL PL assistant stays in BMP.

5) You may set U.S. units experience to "regular" in QB menu. :)

 

(Hm, I broke through that "anti-spam" system! Wow!)

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I think the top one is what counts the most. Russian thermals may as well not be thermals when comparing how US and RU thermals are represented ingame. You can always make your crews the same veterancy. Id be interested how many games people have won as Russia not against the AI or Ukrainians.

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+ contact sharing. This factor isn't discussed usually. Does it really affect spotting? And U.S. vehicles have better communications. While Russian - very bad in the game. BMP crew knows nothing about targets that are spotted by platoon HQ for minutes.

Edited by DMS
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