Potential bug with behing armor (lack of) effects

[Stndrtnfhr]

Battlefront,

  I believe there is a problem with effects of penetrations.  I am in a PBEM game and have had six full penetrations on three T-34/85s with no effects.  Two penetrations were right through the drivers hatch and the tanks immediately backed up out of the line of fire.  Kind of hard to do if the driver is, should be, dead.  A 75mm projectile through the hatch would definitely ruin his day.  I have the game files if needed.  Or, is this just an old issue? 

 

Regards

Stndrtnfhr

[Vanir Ausf B]

A 75mm projectile through the hatch would definitely ruin his day.

 

What type of unit was the shooter? The Germans have several different varieties of 75mm munitions.

[JoMac]

Yeah, Vanir, it's the Munition that doesn't penetrate the Drivers Head 

[Melchior]

"Two rounds right by your head Oleg. You'll have one hell of a story to tell your children."

"They won't believe me."

[Nidan1]

In order to test the problem one needs to be completely accurate with the variables involved. Why test the problem with every type of German 75mm gun, when maybe the problem can be isolated to one particular type, i.e the unit in Stndrtnfhr's game that is having the issue.

[Stndrtnfhr]

What type of unit was the shooter? The Germans have several different varieties of 75mm munitions.

 

There were two different shooters, both were MK IV L48s at about 400m, hitting two different T-34/85s

 

Regards

Stndrtnfhr

[Vanir Ausf B]

You probably just had a little streak of bad luck. If there was something majorly out of whack with a round that common someone else would have noticed before now. But I'll run a quick test.

[A co]

There was a thread about this kind of issue some time ago. The conclusion seemed to be that regardless of where the hit occurs, it's treated simply as a 'front hull penetration' (in your case) and the damage or lack thereof is random. 

What I mean is a penetration  on the driver's hatch is no more likely to injure the driver than a penetration on the far opposite edge of the front hull, as far as the game engine calculates it. 

Given that, two hull penetrations failing to immobilize the vehicle is a bit unlikely but still is something we will see from time to time. 

And yes, the specificity of the hit decal location ends up deceiving us in our expectations about damage.

[Apocal]

There was a thread about this kind of issue some time ago. The conclusion seemed to be that regardless of where the hit occurs, it's treated simply as a 'front hull penetration' (in your case) and the damage or lack thereof is random. 

What I mean is a penetration  on the driver's hatch is no more likely to injure the driver than a penetration on the far opposite edge of the front hull, as far as the game engine calculates it. 

Given that, two hull penetrations failing to immobilize the vehicle is a bit unlikely but still is something we will see from time to time. 

And yes, the specificity of the hit decal location ends up deceiving us in our expectations about damage.

 

I'm not so sure about this. Perhaps Battlefront changed things for the better later on, but I noticed in CMBS that when a sabot went through the CROWS on an Abrams, only the CROWS was disabled. And this was consistent. Obviously CMRT is not CMBS, but there is a reasonably high degree of fidelity in the hit decal/damage arena for CMx2. That being said, there is some definite wonkiness as well, with tracks being disabled by upper hull or turret hits.

[JonS]

Ap, what you said and what A co said isn't really incompatible. A round that hits the CROWS hit location can only damage the CROWS ... there's nothing else there. But a round that penetrates the Front Upper Hull Plate hit location can go on to damage anything identified as being located behind the FUHP. That could be the driver and/or the co-driver and/or the radio and/or the transmission and/or the hull mg and/or etc.

Edited May 20, 2015 by JonS

[Stndrtnfhr]

Well Gentlemen the count is now up to four 75mm L48 front hull, (driver hatch area) penetrations, two 50mm L60 side penetrations and one PF 30 front hull penetration and no T-34/85s knocked out.  I am okay with bad luck, it happens, but seven penetrations on four different T-34 and no kills is more than bad luck. 

 

Regards

Stndrtnfhr

[kipanderson]

Stndrtnfhr,

This is a known issue. I did a long bug report myself. Charles did then address the problem and there will be a tweak either when the module comes along, I don’t know when either , or a 1.04 patch.

Should have responded earlier .. but loose track with now happily so many titles of CMX2 up and running.. .

All the best,

Kip.

[Thewood1]

Is the issue after penetration effects?  How widespread is the issue?  IS it only under limited conditions?  Is it in all CM2 titles?  I am surprised I haven't seen more discussion about it.

[Holien]

Yes Kip please tell more... (If you can squeeze some time between the bulge testing)

[kipanderson]

Thewood1/Mark,

Well... really no more to say I am afraid. .

I too noticed when playing CMRT that behind armour effects were sometimes less serious than they probably should be. So did a bug report and Charles did a fix. Using the same phrases he always does.

That is it.. all I know.. .

When the winter module comes along and/or a patch is above my salary level... as the saying goes. But as explained above, the powers that be, Charles, are on to this one... so all is well.

All the best,

Kip.

[Thewood1]

With the slow pace of patches to individual games, it would be good to know the gist of what is not working right.  I haven't played CMRT much yet and was about to start.  Just wondering if I should just go back to CMFI/BN/BS

[A Canadian Cat]

I recommend just playing RT if that is what interests you.  The reason it has not been discussed much is most likely because it is not a serious problem.  It's a mole hill step over it

[kipanderson]

Hi,

 

Yes... I have a heavily edited, big, spectacular scenario waiting for me to play this weekend that I am looking forward to.. So it is no more than the usual stuff all will be accustomed to. Nothing at all to stop anyone playing.. Not new, just thought it time to get round to formally reporting it and getting a minor tweak for the next patch or module.

 

All good stuff,

All the best,

Kip.   

[Vanir Ausf B]

So did a bug report and Charles did a fix. Using the same phrases he always does.

 

Since when did stoney silence become a phrase?

Edited May 27, 2015 by Vanir Ausf B

[A Canadian Cat]

LOL. 

 

I used to work on a team with a resident genius and he never put comments on defect fixes either.  Some high muckity muck wrote a decree saying "though shalt never have an empty description for a defect fix in the bug tracking system".  From that point on my team mate put '.' (without the quotes) in the description field.

[Bloody Bill]

^{http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/27365724721150485/C761C7180C61B423F364DC726165FD6E15670D19/}

 

^{I Don't know if this is the same kind of issue.  I had a Panther in a pbem game that took a beating and killed seven of my tanks including two Firefly's.  I hit the Panther 30+ times with nine penetrating.  The Panther never seemed to notice as it kept advancing and killing the whole game.  Here is one pic I took from Steam.}

[Holien]

Wow, what did it's subsystems look like?

[Bloody Bill]

The Panther was riddled.  It did not seem to notice the damage though. 

[slysniper]

^{http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/27365724721150485/C761C7180C61B423F364DC726165FD6E15670D19/}

 

^{I Don't know if this is the same kind of issue.  I had a Panther in a pbem game that took a beating and killed seven of my tanks including two Firefly's.  I hit the Panther 30+ times with nine penetrating.  The Panther never seemed to notice as it kept advancing and killing the whole game.  Here is one pic I took from Steam.}

Just be glad it was you that had the Panther. I can imagine the fellow you played against would not be so impressed.

[Bloody Bill]

Just be glad it was you that had the Panther. I can imagine the fellow you played against would not be so impressed.

Unfortunately it was my opponent that had the Panther.  Had to write a lot of letters home because of that Panther.