Bradleys will not fire TOW2s

[Bahger]

After a promising start as Blue in a PBEM of "Galloping Horse Downfall" (a great mission with superb terrain) I am doomed, having run out of Javelins, which cannot be resupplied to infantry by the Cavalry versions of the Bradleys.  Those Bradleys, which performed very well against enemy AFVs, are being mulched by his tanks, even after spotting them first because they will NOT fire their TOW 2s.  Assuming that the TOW 2 is wire-guided, I have made allowances for intervening terrain but even where there is none, and clear FOV to the target, they will not fire them.  Did I read that this will be addressed in the next patch?  If not, are either my expectations or my technique out of kilter?  Would appreciate feedback, many thanks.

[GAZ NZ]

I played that map and one of the Bradley killed two of my tanks with two tows in 15 seconds

My Russian tanks just sat there staring at it even though they knew it was there.

 

In saying that in other games I've played - PBMs - the tows of my Bradleys do not seem to fire that much.

Its inconsistent.

[Fade2Gray]

I've noticed Bradleys opening fire on tanks with just their Bushmaster and not their TOW a lot as well.  It's really hard to guess when they will use their TOW.  Sometimes they cut loose immediately with the TOW, sometimes they fire a burst then a missile, sometimes they just rock the Bushmaster and never use a TOW, even if firing on the tank's frontal armor.

[panzersaurkrautwerfer]

Wish it was more consistent.  I'm never quite sure what's going to happen if I send a Bradley up over a berm with armor downrange.  

[mikeCK]

As discussed in other threads, we need a command "fire heavy" to go with "fire light" that command will tell the unit to bring its most powerful weapon to bear. For example, I would love my BRADLEY to put a TOW2 through a building sometimes. Can't make it do that

[Fade2Gray]

As discussed in other threads, we need a command "fire heavy" to go with "fire light" that command will tell the unit to bring its most powerful weapon to bear. For example, I would love my BRADLEY to put a TOW2 through a building sometimes. Can't make it do that

Are TOW-2 basics or As in game?  The TOW-2B isn't exactly ideal for firing into a building.

[Pablius]

As much as I would like a weapons selector, is this kind of micromanagement a thing in real life? Does a platoon or company commander get that involved?

 

In any case it would be nice some consistency or pointer of what to expect in different situations, so far I can never tell what a Bradley will do against a tank, I´m not sure if it comes to training, distance, weather or just a roll of a dice

[GAZ NZ]

One of the patch changes was in relation to this i think.

So they use gun/missles in the correct situation.

Firing the gun would be expected as a distraction and to damage optics.

Ive had them shooting and damaging my main tanks gun barrel on 5 seperate engagements.

So they can effectively can take out a tank in that sense but the missle should follow asap

[mikeCK]

Well it may not be a platoon commander decision but in real life as a platoon commander I wouldn't have to tell a BRADLEY crew to use a TOW against a tank...they would just do it. But since they don't seem to want to in game, I want the command. And regardless of the design of the tow, if you are receiving Fire from a building of structure which combatants can hide behind from 25mm. A tow explosion will mess them up. Put one through a window of a building and everyone inside that floor is incapacitated.

Not saying it's ideal but I would want that capability

[Kieme(ITA)]

What was the distance to target?

[Bahger]

I will try to be more specific when I revisit the map but let me say for the time being that there were four Bradleys with short, medium and long-distance FOVs to tank targets.  Not one fired a TOW 2 and three out of the four have been hit and destroyed by those tanks, when at least one of them, if only by the laws of probability, should have got a missile away.

[Kieme(ITA)]

I did some tests few weeks ago with the Bradley, and distance/target/crew experience were important factors when it came to the weapon preference.

 

All in all I noticed that the use of TOW2 is preferred at extreme distances, but can happen at 500m too.

[womble]

As much as I would like a weapons selector, is this kind of micromanagement a thing in real life? Does a platoon or company commander get that involved?

 

In any case it would be nice some consistency or pointer of what to expect in different situations, so far I can never tell what a Bradley will do against a tank, I´m not sure if it comes to training, distance, weather or just a roll of a dice

In CM you aren't just the Plt or Coy HQ, you're every squad and team leader down to single drivers of transport vehicles. You have/get to make many of their decisions.

 

That said, I would prefer the TacAI to be tweaked so that it makes better use of the ever-proliferating (as the game's time period becomes later) weapons systems on vehicles and in squads, rather than increasing the micromanagement of fires necessary. This would have the additional effect of making TacAI choices better when you haven't given them an explicit order. They won't be able to area target, but their choices could certainly be better.

[Vanir Ausf B]

There certainly are situational factors at play such as target aspect so I can't guarantee anything, but I just tested Bradleys against T-90s head-on at 700 meters with the unreleased patch and it was all TOW all the time. Maybe to a fault. Against T-90s with Arena they stayed with the missiles even after the first one got intercepted.

 

Which brings up another factor. Against APS-equipped tanks the auto cannon is arguably the less-bad choice.

[womble]

Is the APS something you can see is present from combat ranges? I imagine sensors and countermeasure projectors would be relatively prominent. If the Brad could see such things, it might be "best" (after "just hide again") to try and scrub off the external fittings with the Bushmaster (and then hide, cos it's going to take more than the  burst or two you'll get off before the turret rotates to bear and your day ends in a blinding flash...).

[Vanir Ausf B]

Is the APS something you can see is present from combat ranges?

 

Yes, the mast is quite prominent. But at a distance it could easily be mistaken for a remote weapon station or some other type of system.

 

T-80 with Arena:

 

T-90 without Arena:

Edited April 27, 2015 by Vanir Ausf B

[Vanir Ausf B]

Adding to the Bradley TC's potential confusion is that the Russians in-game are fielding two different active protection systems, one that is very effective against TOW and one that is not so effective.

 

T-90 with Shtora:

Edited April 27, 2015 by Vanir Ausf B

[L0ckAndL0ad]

Glad to hear you liked the mission!

[akd]

 

Yes, the mast is quite prominent. But at a distance it could easily be mistaken for a remote weapon station or some other type of system.

 

T-80 with Arena:

 

T-90 without Arena:

 

Latest Arena is much lower profile.  Trophy is as well.  Omniscient TacAI knowledge of APS presence would be extremely gamey.

[xIGuNDoCIx]

Omniscient TacAI knowledge of APS presence would be extremely gamey.

I disagree.  I think it could be factored in with the firing units experience.  I know that during my time in the Army we were pounded with vehicle recognition training until we could identify pretty much everything that our enemies might throw at us.  In game terms I think that a more experienced crew would be able to distinguish one APS system from another or lack thereof.  I wouldn't say that making the TacAI 100% in their assessment of the target but at least give them the ability to do so and make the call for the appropriate weapon platform from there.

Edited April 27, 2015 by xIGuNDoCIx

[akd]

Experience, range and visibility could all certainly be factors.  Just shouldn't be an absolute ability.

[Bahger]

Vanir, I am thrilled that the patch addresses this, because it was tactically the best played PBEM I ever did until the Cav Bradleys' total refusal to fire their TOW 2s handed victory to my opponent in the last 30 min.

L0ckAndLoad, it's a great mission. Just bear in mind that infantry cannot resupply Javelins from those Cav Bradleys so Blue is very under-equipped against heavy armor, especially if the M2s are not firing their TOWs.

[womble]

Vanir, I am thrilled that the patch addresses this, because it was tactically the best played PBEM I ever did until the Cav Bradleys' total refusal to fire their TOW 2s handed victory to my opponent in the last 30 min.

L0ckAndLoad, it's a great mission. Just bear in mind that infantry cannot resupply Javelins from those Cav Bradleys so Blue is very under-equipped against heavy armor, especially if the M2s are not firing their TOWs.

Is it practicable to dismount the Cav Bradleys' crews and have them use the Javelins (having Acquired them first)? Since the Brads aren't reliable against heavy armour.

[Bahger]

Womble, I am not sure that the Cav M2s carry these weapons like the equivalent IFVs do and I doubt that the player can deploy the vehicle crew to operate weapons acquired in this way. I will check and will stand by for an informed response.

[L0ckAndL0ad]

I don't see the problem you're describing. Cav Bradley has 4 passenger seats. Whoever you put in there, they are able to get everything (unless already carrying too much stuff). I've just loaded the mission and was able to get Jav launchers and ammo for both rifle squads' fireteam and dedicated platoon Jav teams.

Edited April 27, 2015 by L0ckAndL0ad