ADDITIONS TO PATCH PLEASE - JAV RARITY increase and general Points cost changes

[Abdolmartin]

That may be the case in your opinion, but at the end of the day, this is a game where in its best case two people face off against one another. Balance and symmetry has to exist somewhere or it becomes unenjoyable and pointless.

 

House rules and pricing exist for that reason. In an equal engagement (in terms of number of tanks, infantry, and amount of support), the U.S. will most probably win, but then look at the game's scenarios. For example, "Objective Delta" has a Stryker platoon pitted against a mechanised company with lots of BMP-2s and even T-72s. These things can level the playing field in multiplayer, by applying house rules and by adjusted pricings (which will come with the patch). But nerfing realistic capabilities will hurt the very core of the game.

[Stagler]

But nerfing realistic capabilities will hurt the very core of the game.

 

Don't remember saying that this was what should happen, but anyway.

[GAZ NZ]

Thanks for the informative responses.

I had seen alot of combat footage and heard from overseas vets AT4 launchers being used alot.I rarely saw Javs being shot.

When i did see it it was against random low priority targets which I thought was a total waste of $.

I was under the impression like cruise missles they had a low stockpile.

So thanks for clarifying that.

Was Ukraine getting Javs?

Having read books and articles on changes to the US army i also thought with private

contractors taking alot of work the US army has dropped considerably in man power.

My issue with javs was i simply roll over newbie and experienced opponents as US.

Im an experienced player/top ladder player since CM1 and im concerned pbmers that help keep the interest going in the game may get put off. Ive had opponents quiting games 6-10 turns in. Alot of people like to play Nato/US vs Russia. Playing US on US is boring lol.

I wanted to ask about these missle systems to know more about them to understand the big picture.

Playing people shooting these at me 70% of the time id never see the shooter even with great C3. With tanks deep deep in forests being blown up it was also making me wonder why bother taking tanks.

I can also get close in as russians.

but then die fast.

Russians in close should be deadly. Not working that way.

The initial bugs may not have helped with this. As a russian player the bugs are really bad. Ive pulled top ambush tactics with everything and my guys die to no effect.

I know its the big bad bugs to an extent but will see after patch.

Ive used aircraft to attack the US forces and 2-3 stingers take out my planes all the time. Even when dropping artillery on the launchers to suppress. 150-180 points killing 2500 point planes - same as javs killing tanks lol

Planes are a waste of time from the 3 games ive played as a Russian. Planes are also too expensive. US doesnt need any air assets btw

its all drones now with raptor bring last plane to ever be developed according to top airforce officals.

As much as i love jets there time is numbered. Drones seem over priced i think.

The game will never be balanced.

I wouldnt want that haha

Nothing can be balanced.

I thought points needed some adjusting on some units so good to see that.

Each side has there own stuff and tactics.

But the Javs took it to a new level and i had to question it. So thanks for discussing it. It is what it is I guess.

Modern warfare is a whole new environment.

Surprised with army sizes as Russian army was bigger along with US back in the day. Both have downsized i guess.

I know Stallone and Lundgren dropped a few of the russian numbers

Thinking about it a russian player can counter this Jav threat

Artillery is one way yes but costs spent to counter it can be too high.

Anyway well see what comes of the patch.

Ill get more Ukraine / Russian games going as well for variation.

As russians Maybe ill take 50% artillery and the rest infantry

All the US AT will be useless lol with no tanks to hit.

Thanks

[Thewood1]

I don't understand why you have to play US.  Why not Ukraine vs Russia?

[sburke]

I am in the middle of a U.S./UKR vs Russia scenario. My stinger and Igla teams have been sitting around with their thumbs up their a**es while a hind slaughterd a good part of my mobile forces. Their effectiveness is definitely not guaranteed.

[Stagler]

I don't understand why you have to play US.  Why not Ukraine vs Russia?

 

Because Ukraine don't get as many nice toys.

[sburke]

Because Ukraine don't get as many nice toys.

Lol but isn't that his point, the "nice toys" are deadly. That is what makes them nice.

[Kieme(ITA)]

I am having lots of fun with the ukrainians

[antaress73]

Anyway arena is old already and wont be deployed massively . Afganit is much better and can intercept the Javelin and according to the russians will be deployed massively and can be installed on any vehicule. Arena is in the game because there's data about it and afganit is still a mystery. Once we know more about it, it should replace Arena in the game in a future module or patch. That should solve the javelin balance issue in a realistic way.

Edited April 23, 2015 by antaress73

[panzersaurkrautwerfer]

 

 

Anyway arena is old already and wont be deployed massively . Afganit is much better and can intercept the Javelin and according to the russians will be deployed massively and can be installed on any vehicule. Arena is in the game because there's data about it and afganit is still a mystery. Once we know more about it, it should replace Arena in the game in a future module or patch. That should solve the javelin balance issue in a realistic way. 

 

Not really so much.  Right now it's about as realistic as Trophy is on US vehicles.  If it starts getting fielded in number, then maybe it'll be time to put it in the game at all, but right now its jogging along of the Armata lines of existing, but some major questions exist to if it'll be in service in a reasonable amount of time.  By no means should it replace Arena unless in a few months we're seeing significant first fieldings or something.  

[Stagler]

I doubt afghanit will be back platformed until after its inception. Back platforming usually is done with export in mind.

[antaress73]

Not really so much. Right now it's about as realistic as Trophy is on US vehicles. If it starts getting fielded in number, then maybe it'll be time to put it in the game at all, but right now its jogging along of the Armata lines of existing, but some major questions exist to if it'll be in service in a reasonable amount of time. By no means should it replace Arena unless in a few months we're seeing significant first fieldings or something.

The key words being eventually.. I'm talking in a year's time or more .. Still two years before 2017. A lot will be known about it during that time period

[panzersaurkrautwerfer]

 

 

The key words being eventually

 

Yeah, but it's not like we'll go from not even Arena to every T-90 has Afganit overnight.  If we're seeing mass fieldings soon, then man, yeah 2017 it's going to be a common thing, but if it's 2016 and all we have is "soon!" and some samples at a weapons expo, then it's pretty much not happening on a scale worth discussing outside of something that'll eat up your rarity budget with two tanks.

[antaress73]

Yeah, but it's not like we'll go from not even Arena to every T-90 has Afganit overnight. If we're seeing mass fieldings soon, then man, yeah 2017 it's going to be a common thing, but if it's 2016 and all we have is "soon!" and some samples at a weapons expo, then it's pretty much not happening on a scale worth discussing outside of something that'll eat up your rarity budget with two tanks.

I agree. What i'm saying is this: its supposed to be part of Armata and can be retrofitted. For all we know its already installed and working on the tanks that we saw rehearsing for the may 9th parade. We'll know then or at least in a couple of weeks if it exists. If the Russians are going to fight NATO you can bet it would be fielded in numbers. Same as " you can bet that if the US is going to fight Russia, we will buy and install Trophy overnight and in #s". The game is a what if and set in alternate reality. Its a reasonable assumption to make.

Edited April 23, 2015 by antaress73

[Saferight]

 

Was Ukraine getting Javs?
 

If they pick 'em up when they buddy aid their US allies 

 

[antaress73]

How the f... Does that thing work

[Stagler]

Yeah, but it's not like we'll go from not even Arena to every T-90 has Afganit overnight.  If we're seeing mass fieldings soon, then man, yeah 2017 it's going to be a common thing, but if it's 2016 and all we have is "soon!" and some samples at a weapons expo, then it's pretty much not happening on a scale worth discussing outside of something that'll eat up your rarity budget with two tanks.

 

To be fair it was two months ago and everyone was impossibru'ing the new platforms we will see next weekend.

Read what I said about back platforming, I doubt T-90 will even get Afghanit unless they plan to flog it.

[agusto]

 

 

If they pick 'em up when they buddy aid their US allies 

 

 

That is weird. I didnt know you could pick up weapons from WIA/KIAs that are on your side but not your nationality. Doesnt that mean that if you make a scenario in CMBN where Brits and and Germans figth on the same side, the Brits could pick up MG-42s?

Edited April 23, 2015 by agusto

[Saferight]

Yes i believe so Agusto. Probably just important weapons like AT/MG assets i could be wrong though.

[panzersaurkrautwerfer]

 

 

To be fair it was two months ago and everyone was impossibru'ing the new platforms we will see next weekend.

 

Again, the impossibru wasn't that something would show up to the parade, it was how real/operational the thing would be, and how fast it would enter service.  The jury is still very out on those questions, and the various follow-on ERA/APS systems.  Having Afganit as anything common would really genuinely take some major movements happening now/the next few months, otherwise at best if it were included, it should closely resemble the US APS in terms of rarity and cost.

 

Asserting that it's going to be common enough to balance the playing field is a bitch of a massive reach to put it mildly.   

[sburke]

Yeah I was playing a scenario recently and US troops were in Ukr trucks and could acquire anything in the truck. Ammo not so helpful, but RPGs were a cool addition.

Hmm maybe I'll have to try out that idea and see how far it goes.

[antaress73]

Again, the impossibru wasn't that something would show up to the parade, it was how real/operational the thing would be, and how fast it would enter service. The jury is still very out on those questions, and the various follow-on ERA/APS systems. Having Afganit as anything common would really genuinely take some major movements happening now/the next few months, otherwise at best if it were included, it should closely resemble the US APS in terms of rarity and cost.

Asserting that it's going to be common enough to balance the playing field is a bitch of a massive reach to put it mildly.

Bah you play with no rarity.. Missiles will be useless, back to anti tank guns lol and btw im talking in game not in RL Edited April 23, 2015 by antaress73

[panzersaurkrautwerfer]

I view it as I signed up to play a somewhat realistic version of how a 2017 war between the NATO and Russia might play out.  I did not sign up to play a version of reality in which Russian military ambitions and designs became unfettered by reality and we're dealing with technical capabilities and equipment that in the real world never survived the Russian economy, or turned out to be crippled by massive technical issues and cost overruns leading to the whole mess being canceled after the first 30 were cranked out.  

 

Small leaps are good.  Arena actually being common isn't too out there.  T-90AMs and BMP-3Ms are a bit of a reach, but heck all the parts exist seems reasonable. US APS is just a very large government purchase card transaction away, and both the AMPS and M829A4 are well underway and remain fully funded.  But because three or so Armatas show up to a parade, or enthusiastic arms sales people assure us Afghanit is about to make all Russian tanks invincible to all things does not mean it's time to start making the Russian military in CMBS look like Putin's personal wet dream. 

 

If the current Russian plans pan out a lot more in the next few months, then it's certainly worth reconsidering.  But the vision of battalions of Armatas, backed up with various older systems now invincible to all things because Afghanit rolling through the Ukraine remains pretty well outside the realm of reasonable expectations at the moment. 

[antaress73]

afganit wont make russian tanks invincible to everything .. I highly doubt they can intercept sabot rounds. But i remain confident it should be able to deal reasonably well with the Javelin. But lets see how it pans out. Golden & Sachs recommended buying russian government bonds and the ruble is back up so it doesnt turn out as dire as forecasted or wished. I was going to say you like your russians tanks easy to kill  but I will refrain  I can understand that.

 

And i'm not saying implement it in the next patch or first module. Let's see first. If it turns out its too much for the rooskies, then it wont be in. They are already challenging enough when played by someone who knows what he's doing.

Edited April 24, 2015 by antaress73

[Thewood1]

Who is Golden & Sachs?