[AAR] Will (Axis) vs Ash (Allies) - B2B - Here we go again edition

[Will95]

Well, well, here we are once again. 'Tis the season for warmongering!!

 

Like a good book, StratCom is always a pleasure to return to, and I always seem to find something new and fascinating about the game every time I come back. Ash and I are definitely rusty- a year hiatus has seen to that- but we hope to provide a long, close and entertaining match. I also want to  apologise for the half-finished AAR's we have sitting around these forums- a few of our games that we tried to start last year ended up fizzling due to real life commitments, but we will endeavor to keep this match flowing neatly.  

 

Starting a new campaign, especially something as big as AoC, always gives me a mixture of nervous anticipation and excitement- you never know where the game will go, and I'm not even entirely sure what I'd like to do yet. I'll be playing as the Germans and trying to remedy the mistakes that Hitler's generals never could.

 

First order of things is to take stock of the map and get reacquainted with the lay of the land, so to speak. The primary weakness of playing as the Axis in this campaign is that you are locked into the historical positions- ie, an Army Group North, Center, and South, with a small force jumping off from Romania consisting of Hungarians, Romanians and Germans. In Storm over Europe (my personal favourite) or AoD, you can choose to totally bypass history; you could focus all your resources in one singular thrust, or invade earlier, or even try to delay the invasion further. However, in B2B, we are stuck with the same 22nd June start date and the same force distribution, and we must make the best of it.

 

I've included some shots of the front line at the bottom of the post, but there's nothing particularly interesting there for those familiar with the campaign- it's the usual messy bloodbath that kicks off Barbarossa.

 

1941 goals

 

The first few months are absolutely critical, no doubt about it; I've got to gain enough land to set myself up for the winter and subsequent '42 spring offensives, while at the same time trying to preserve and vet up as much of my force as possible, especially my panzer divisions. 

 

So, Leningrad, Moscow, Stalingrad, the Caucasus, something else, or a mixture?! The ball is very much in my court, as the German player. Naturally my eventual goal is to control all of these, but let's weigh up the various pros and cons of going for each in 1941.

 

Leningrad

Pros: Taking it connects me to the Finnish forces, freeing up a lot of strong infantry; closest objective by distance, so quite manageable, seals off the northern flank.

Cons: Engineers spawn at Leningrad early on, making it a bit of a fortified nightmare to break through; few MPP sources to speak of besides the city itself (total gain from Leningrad + Riga = 36 MPPs).

 

Moscow

Pros: Big NM hit if captured, approximately 70~ MPPs in city income en route 

Cons: Long distance to travel, Pripyat marshes require significant anti-partisan presence, exposed flanks

 

Stalingrad

Pros: Lots of mines and cities

Cons: Local geography very inhospitable to attacking armies due to lack of supply sources and rivers, very long distance to travel, still doesn't seal off southern flank due to supply center at Baku

 

Caucasus/Baku

Pros: OIL!

Cons: Longest travel distance, exposed flanks (I learned that the hard way in an SoE game last year when I was having a jolly romp down into the mountains before Soviet tanks cut off my single line of retreat)

 

I feel that given the strong northern presence in current starting positions, I would be foolish not to attempt to capture Leningrad quickly. Freeing up the use of Mannerheim (rank 8 general) and his men will be invaluable in 1942. Moscow does not interest me currently, because the monetary gain simply isn't worth the blood I'll have to wade through to get there quickly. I favour a southern approach- taking the bulk of my force and sending it down to Stalingrad and the Caucasus. I won't be able to reach Stalingrad by 1941, but I would like to reach the Stalino/Kharkov/Kursk line before winter sets in.

 

So, that's it. A two pronged approach- take Leningrad, and get as far south as I can by winter. Then, if all goes well, attack Moscow from the north with the Finns in 1942 and attempt to get down to Baku. Ash is a worthy adversary though, and he's handed me my ass more times than I like to remember, and we find Germans notoriously difficult to play well. It's all to play for

 

 

 

[Strategiclayabout]

Hi both of you ,

 

Glad to see you back for new adventures ! Don't worry about unfinished AAR: it happens.

*

Leningrad

Got a slightly higer MPPs count for northern option with 42:

16 (Riga) + 16 (2x8 Leningrad) + 10 (Helsinki going from 5 to 10 supply with railroad to Berlin)

On the good sides you can add Baltic States supply sources can allow 10 supply for german HQs at max capacity (towns to 6) while Soviets are limited to 8.

If you take some risks/do well engineers won't have the time to do much before you reach Leningrad.

Moscow

I still think advancing in the center (even if you don't capture the capital in the end) is a major objective in 1941 because it's when you can grab the most ground.

The marshes don't need that much units to keep partisans at bay (buy more GAR early on including italian ones if you think you'll lack units).

It will also make the fall of Kiev easier with pressure from the north though targeting soviet MPPs in the south remains a possible strategy.

First turn

Trying to encircle/cut supply/railroads to more units on first turn so you can destroy them below 5 supply on following turns would help Germans a lot in the long run.

Here many soviet air units, l-tanks and HQs will be able to escape while most armies you destroyed will cost less time and MPPs to come back.

Air units only need 1 supply to move and they have long movement ranges so they can escape pretty easily if not destroyed on turn 1 or left at 0 supply.

*

You can take a look at this thread where some encirclement options were discussed (you even have some pics) :

http://community.battlefront.com/topic/117599-first-turn-in-the-north/

 

Wish a fun game to both of you !

[Will95]

Interesting thoughts Strategic;

 

Cool point about Helsinki doubling it's supply! I wasn't aware of that, even more reason to drive for Leningrad.

 

I'm really in two minds about going forwards towards Moscow. I know that if I try and recreate history with three thrusts, I won't end up meeting any of my objectives. Perhaps I will just keep 1 HQ and a small capture force move down the center to keep Ash stretched throughout 1941 and give me more area to retreat through in the future. 

 

When I've previously played this campaign as Germany I have gone with an emphasis on encirclement and subsequent killing units out of supply- and I think there are some drawbacks, particularly in 1941 when time is of the essence. If you blow through in a frontal assault, you can cover more ground. If you encircle and wait a turn for their supply to drop, you can increase the cost and time to replenish forces but causes a delay of 1-2 turns (and gives them a chance to counter-attack). 

 

I guess we'll see

[Strategiclayabout]

Oops made a mistake with Riga MPPs I think it's 20 not 16 since it's a liberated capital (2 x 10 at max) so 46 MPPs and even more reasons to go for it !

True about counterattack but if they're done in low or 0 supply and without supporting HQ Soviets will kill themselves for you with atrocious odds .

I consider you can lose some time and forces early on because Germans can't go much faster than their HQs anyway.

 

As you say we'll see .

[Will95]

Turn 2

 

Barbarossa is progressing nicely. Having studied the campaign map a bit more and read some of the existing AAR's, I've decided that I will push on three seperate fronts towards Moscow, Leningrad and the Caucasus.

 

Across all fronts, Ash has withdrawn, avoiding all fights. This is in stark contrast to my tactics when I played as the Soviets- I tried to counter every which way I could. However, he did manage to damage one of my German corps to 40% strength in the south with some limited offensive action. Odessa is well suited to defense- the river, and the army that starts garrisoned in the city, provide the first tough line of defense for the Axis to crack. I'll manage it, eventually, but I'm not going to tackle it head on.

 

 

In the north, I pushed towards Riga- it should be in my hands in 2 turns time.

 

[Will95]

Turn 4

 

My attack is splitting off into three distinct arms now; Army Group Center, North and South, a little like history. I planned for Riga to be taken this turn, and although I cleared the city, was not able to capture it. However, this is a small detail- it will certainly be in my hands by next turn, and I'm making steady, controlled progress towards Leningrad. I noticed that Ash pulled back the two light tank units from the Finnish front this turn so I expect they will be mobilized the defense of the city.

 

 

Army Group Center had no action to report, but I am planning to assault Minsk next turn. It appears there is just a single army in residence, so should be easily crushed.

 

The south saw the lion's share of the fighting- Ash took the opportunity I provided when I paused my southern assault to refit my Romanian troops with better equipment to dig in aroud the River Bug. Rather than take him head on, I assaulted with my German troops from the west, and began to 'roll up the carpet', so to speak. One panzer division outflanked aggressively to destroy a Russian HQ and is now left in low supply. However, I'm not too concerned; unless there are surprise reinforcements coming from Kiev, Ash will now have to decide if he wants to save what troops he can and withdraw, leaving his dugouts, or face being completely cut off.

 

 

So far so normal. I think this next turn could prove very interesting though, as the initial shock of the invasion has worn off, and Ash has now had a bit of time to redeploy his troops, so we might see the first counterattacks.

[Strategiclayabout]

Hahaha enter the magic carpet roll ^^ !

 

That's interesting to see you shift 4 panzers to the north. Problem with Riga/Minsk is the more you wait the more it entrenches.

It's possible to capture Riga on turn 2 to speed up the advance but it depends on your moves on turn 1 and how Russians defend.

Being able to use those two bombers help a lot there though one is too far at start and fighters arn't in escort range (it's rare to see red wings in the area but you never know). 

*

In the south debates are still open about some points like where to push panzers and/or use artillery but you're right it's better to encirle Odessa before attacking most of the time.

Rolling panzers full speed towards Kiev along the northern railroad still has my preference because it's shorter/straight forward but you're doing well starting a Vinnitsa-Chisnau pocket . 

Nice job stomping on a soviet HQ, keep it going ! Good move to upgrade those romanian corps too, will save MPPs/casualties in the long run though the cost is high early on.

*

I don't see Hungarian or bulgarian HQs around to help provide more supply, any plans for them ?

Also Gemans lack fighters at start so I tend to upgrade/reinforce italian/romanian ones quite early to help escort bombers.

(I like the finnish one alot because of its elite step and good HQ, always nice when AGN approaches Leningrad)

Care to share your strategy for unit production and tech investment ?

[Will95]

Turn 5

 

Catastrophe! Ash unleashed a surprising volume of light tanks on my isolated Panzer group, destroying it utterly, and out of supply, preventing a quick buy-back. There are at least 4 Soviet armour columns around Zhitomir, with more further south- this would appear to be where the Red Army is making it's first stand. With just two armour groups in the south, it's going to be a struggle to make too much progress here against such a volume of light tanks, although our counter-attacks drove countless armies away and destroyed a few outright. I have a Hungarian HQ and two corps moving in support, as well as more German corps.

 

 

The north was more pedestrian, with Odessa finally captured. There are a number of small towns I need to capture before I can turn my attention to Leningrad proper however, and I suspect that a defensive line will be forming around the Velikaya river. Nevertheless, we must press on.

 

 

Army Group Center cleared Minsk, no further action to report.

Edited April 14, 2015 by Will95

[Will95]

Hahaha enter the magic carpet roll ^^ !

 

That's interesting to see you shift 4 panzers to the north. Problem with Riga/Minsk is the more you wait the more it entrenches.

I really want to take Leningrad. It's the closest objective, and frees up the valuable Finnish army for operations elsewhere. It's also quite difficult to be recaptured due to a lack of good supply nearby for the Soviets.

It's possible to capture Riga on turn 2 to speed up the advance but it depends on your moves on turn 1 and how Russians defend.

Yikes, I feel pretty bad for taking this long now!

Being able to use those two bombers help a lot there though one is too far at start and fighters arn't in escort range (it's rare to see red wings in the area but you never know). 

 

*

In the south debates are still open about some points like where to push panzers and/or use artillery but you're right it's better to encirle Odessa before attacking most of the time.

Rolling panzers full speed towards Kiev along the northern railroad still has my preference because it's shorter/straight forward but you're doing well starting a Vinnitsa-Chisnau pocket . 

As you can see above, Ash was prepared for my magic carpet...

Nice job stomping on a soviet HQ, keep it going ! Good move to upgrade those romanian corps too, will save MPPs/casualties in the long run though the cost is high early on.

*

I don't see Hungarian or bulgarian HQs around to help provide more supply, any plans for them ?

They're bringing up the rear! I could've operated or force marched them I suppose, but I didn't feel the need. They'll be on the front line, or close to it, by next turn.

Also Gemans lack fighters at start so I tend to upgrade/reinforce italian/romanian ones quite early to help escort bombers.

Interesting-  Ash's fighters have been used extremely conservatively thus far but I will look to upgrade them once he starts positioning them further forward (most of the time my bombers don't even need the escort)

(I like the finnish one alot because of its elite step and good HQ, always nice when AGN approaches Leningrad)

Care to share your strategy for unit production and tech investment ?

Certainly! Now that I've lost the Panzer corps, rebuilding that is a top priority, followed by mechanised infantry (I'd like to build them around early winter time so they hit in time for my spring offensives in '42)

For tech, I've invested in intelligence, motorization and industry. As I'm not able to invest more than 1 chit in armour, I think the best way to really maximise their effectiveness is to increase their movement potential- it just makes it that much easier to get into those hard-to-reach corners, like where the HQs hide ^^

I don't like feeling forced to tech in a particular direction, but I feel intelligence is almost a necessity in order to counter the sure-fire intel investment from the Soviets once their income starts ramping up, otherwise I'm going to get out-teched very quickly.

[Will95]

Turn 7

 

We took our opportunity to fight back in the south, with attacks spanning the frontline. The light tank armada that hit last turn has moved back, probably to refit before attacking again.

 

 

The Velikaya river is, as predicted, where the Red Army is preparing to stand in the north. Light tanks have taken up defensive, entrenched positions to prevent me reaching Leningrad in a timely fashion. Fortunately, I knew that this would be a tough area to fight against, and I brought two artillery guns to assist in unseating the Soviets.

 

 

In the center, I continue to make progress towards Smolensk encountering little to no resistance.

[Will95]

Turn 8

 

This was a rough turn. A swarm of light tanks descended on my southern front and decimated countless units, destroying a fighter wing and damaging badly two HQ's. The early loss of the Panzer unit is really hurting my ability to fight back, either, and these light tanks are around to stay. The positive side is that Army Group Center has cleared Smolensk and continues onwards with almost no resistance- if I can make good progress on 2 out of 3 fronts for Christmas, I will still be in a good position by 1942. I forgot to screenshot the south this turn, sorry!

 

In the north we've found a line of light armour ready to defend Leningrad. No attacks yet- but I expect next turn will be bloody.

 

 

 

[Strategiclayabout]

Thanks for previous answers .

 

Yes losing that panzer in the south will hurt during long 41 summer but look at the good side: you've glued a lot of Soviets in the south.

That's one of the reason advancing on all 3 fronts (north-center-south) is a good strategy: there is always a weakness somewhere to exploit.

Also organizing those offensives in Ukraine should be quite costly for Stalin and with all those l-tanks in the north you now know where most of them are.

*

Looking at your northern pic I see you refitted many land units to elite level. I suppose taking Pskov is your objective but avoiding frontal assaults won't be easy..

On this front I usually like to advance fast on Riga-Tartu-Rakvere-Narva. Narva provides a supply 6 source close to Leningrad and in the back of the Velikaya line.

Well in your situation maybe you'll have a chance to ake big gains towards Moscow even if you're slowed down towards Leningrad.

[Will95]

Turn 9

 

The assualt in the north is primed and ready...Strong backing from heavy artillery means that if Ash counterattacks across the river, he will face serious losses. This is the last major hurdle before we reach the city of Leningrad itself.

 

 

Smolensk is ours, and we take a turn to refit and rearm. Two Soviet armies have appeared from the north-west in mildly threatening positions.My next priority is going to be to swing down towards Kiev, and finally lift the pressure on the southern front.

 

 

Looks like Ash is settling down for the long haul in the South...the Soviet line is long and dense. To make progress here, it is imperative that I flank with Army Group Center as soon as possible.

 

[Will95]

Turn 10

 

We have breached the river with low-moderate losses. Ash chose not to attack on his turn, but I was able to unseat his light tanks with bombers and artillery. I was careful to make sure that the Panzers were used to their full effect, although I tried to negate as much damage to them as possible. One unit was taken down to 70%, which is less than ideal, but the other two remain at full strength and in forward, but not exposed, postiions.

 

 

The two 'threatening' Soviet armies around AGC that you saw last turn chose their moment to come out of hiding- one to attack my HQ in Smolensk (no damage) and one to attack my fighter (40% damage). It was remiss of me not to consider that Ash might have attacked and I've paid a moderate price for it. Fortunately, both armies were left out of supply after their little adventure, and were promptly destroyed.

 

 

Army Group South launched a large scale offensive in an attempt to break the entrenched deadlock. Losses were taken by both sides, but the Panzers were put to good use by striking at the southern part of the line near Odessa. Ash has more than enough light armour to do some real damage with a counter-attack next turn so I'm braced for some uncomfortable reading. All rests on the ability of AGC to flank quickly and decisively...

 

 

This turn saw the highest level of losses for the Soviets since Barbarossa began, which can only be a good thing. The Summer will soon be over though, and with Autumn comes mud and rain, so we must 'make hay'!

[Will95]

Turn 11

 

Yikes, this turn was almost as bad for me as the last was for Ash! We took a smidge over 1000MPP's worth of losses, so let's see what happened...

 

Let's get the painful bit over quickly- the south. Army Group South experienced a decimation across the line (although only 1 destroyed unit) which has forced a fallback. The Soviet light tanks did some real damage to one of our Panzer corps as well, although the other survived to do some counter-attack this turn. The situation here is now critical- the line won't hold against another Soviet attack of similar strength. I have reserves (1 corps and 2 divisions) waiting to be deployed sitting idle in Germany, but as yet haven't had the MPP's to spare to rail them in.

 

 

Fortunately AGC continues to clear up. One Panzer is now prepared to add a second veteran step, bringing it to 12 strength- a real threat.

 

 

AGN weathered a storm from Soviet Light Armour but remains in a strong position. The Panzers took a beating but will live to fight another day, and they should still be able to get back to 11 strength. Tallinn will fall next turn and this will bring Kuhler's small force back into the fray. Although it is tempting to bring him down to the South to shore up the critical situation there, I feel the MPP's required to operate them could be better used elsewhere, and once Tallinn is taken, I will press on towards Leningrad and try to stretch the Soviet line as much as possible.

 

 

And for a bit of very good news, the Finnish have broken the line at Viipuri which will force the Soviets to reposition.

 

 

 

 

 

[Strategiclayabout]

Things sure are becoming interesting with soviet forces concentrated in the north and south.

Seems the center is wide open and you'll be able to put pressure in the back of Kiev very soon.

Have you considered some kinf of mobile defense around Rovno and Vinnitsa to suck in the Reds while advancing on the flanks ?

*

Nice job pushing Finns in Karelia: looks like there isn't much Reds before Leningrad in the area.

You still have some time in summer and I suppose Soviets won't be able to be that strong later on with all those costly counterattacks.

That said Stalin sure knows how to use those worthless political op... er... I mean divisions to take casualties and shield main units .

 

PS: welll done keeping a german strategic reserve in the Reich

[Will95]

Things sure are becoming interesting with soviet forces concentrated in the north and south.

Seems the center is wide open and you'll be able to put pressure in the back of Kiev very soon.

Yes, Ash has allowed me free reign in the center and largely left the north with just a small defense force, he is committing the bulk of the Soviets to the south. He has done good damage to me there, but my troops elsewhere are healthy and veteran, and will pose a real problem once they get into position.

Have you considered some kinf of mobile defense around Rovno and Vinnitsa to suck in the Reds while advancing on the flanks ?

I don't yet have enough troops to make a new force around Rovno.

Nice job pushing Finns in Karelia: looks like there isn't much Reds before Leningrad in the area.

Yep there is very little around this area. Leningrad will hopefully be mine in the next 5-6 turns.

You still have some time in summer and I suppose Soviets won't be able to be that strong later on with all those costly counterattacks.

That said Stalin sure knows how to use those worthless political op... er... I mean divisions to take casualties and shield main units .

Yes, he has done well at slowing me down so far. But as you will see, I had some nice breakthroughs this turn (particularly in the north) which I think is going to snowball the Leningrad assault.

 

PS: welll done keeping a german strategic reserve in the Reich

[Will95]

Turn 12

 

The situation in the south has been reduced from 'critical' to 'serious'. We can certainly not afford to be complacent, but along the line corps have largely managed to dig in and entrench. We had to concede a little more ground, but ground can be easily gained back.

 

 

Gomel was cleared of resistance. We are now just a hop and a skip away from Kiev, with apparently little force in the way.

 

 

The north had some good success. Bombers struck at both Russian HQ's, and a corps managed to break through the line to do further damage. Without supply, the Russian light armour will be forced to abandon their positions and fall back to Leningrad itself. Two artillery guns are within range to check the damage of any units foolhardy enough to stick around. Further north we will soon be closing on Narva, bringing a 4th Panzer into the Leningrad battle ground.

 

 

Progress continues to be made in Finland, although I'm going to have to pause the assault for a turn or two while I get reinforced. We managed to destroy another Russian army, though.

 

 

So, Summer is at an end. The war has certainly taken a different turn from usual, and it's developed strangely. The key objectives to achieve before the end of October (when I will need to start hunkering down) is; Leningrad, Kiev and to close in on Dnepropetrovsk.

[Will95]

Turn 13

 

Army Group North was subject to some quite brutal counter-attacks by the Soviet light armour, forcing us back across the river and exposing our artillery. Fortunately, having had a turn to reinforce and recuperate, our own armour was ready to fight once again, and they struck with devastating force- 1 Soviet HQ destroyed and another brought down to below half strength (exact strength uncertain due to successful medium bombing attacks). This kind of blow, coupled with the pressure from Kuhler's advance to the north of Lake Peipas should hopefully force a mass withdrawal from the area and allow us to close in on Leningrad. My Panzers finish the turn in exposed positions, but I'm hoping that even spoiling attacks won't be able to do too much damage to them, as the light armour from the Soviets is very damaged.

 

 

Army Group Center advanced with frightening efficiency, and now stand poised ready to take Chernihiv. These troops have had the easiest run of things so far, and have yet to really cut their teeth on Soviet armour. I expect that will soon change as I close on Kiev.

 

 

I made some lightly aggressive moves to consolidate my position in the south- I don't want to lose the defensive line over the river Bug. With AGC closing on Kiev from the north, I'll be interested to see what Ash does next. He might fall back and split his southern force in two, with half going to Kiev and the other to Dnepropevrosk (as the plains here are so wide that a single line cannot be efficiently maintained), or, he could withdraw all his light armour and send it to clash with AGC before they reach the city, meanwhile trying to hold back my southern approach for long enough to hold Kiev until winter. He has options, and I'm going to have to react to them. With a bit of luck, I'm hoping I will reach Kiev with my veteran Pazners from AGC before he has time to make any big movements.

 

 

There are probably only another 4 turns left of fighting before I need to start hunkering down for the winter. I don't know if I will be able to reach Leningrad in that time, unless I just removed some of the last HQ support in the region. I hope I'll be able to take Kiev though.

[Will95]

Turn 17

 

Things are not going terribly well.

 

Army Group North has experienced great tactical successes, but the fighting remains stuck in the mud. Ash's use of divisions to plug gaps in the line is buying him time, and very soon I'll have to cease hostilities to prepare for the winter event- Leningrad by Christmas is slipping out of reach.

 

 

Even worse, our 12 strength Panzer corps in Army Group Centre was destroyed- out of supply. It was a terrible mistake that I recognised as soon as I did it (it happened a few turns ago- I pushed very far forward to attack a Soviet HQ but didn't anticipate the counter-attack). Ash lost about 25 light tank steps killing it, but he still comes out on top. That leaves just 4 panzer corps combined for the push on Kiev!

 

 

Army Group South is continuing the long, slow push towards Kiev.

 

 

Certainly it is a grim time for the German generals, and I expect the winter will give time for some serious soul-searching, about where it all went so wrong.

[Will95]

Turn 20

 

This turn saw the last attacks of 1941 before we settle in for the winter. Army Group North, with its veteran panzers, continues to hack its way through a dense mass of Soviet defenses. At this point though, taking Leningrad will be very difficult, if not impossible. There are 2 armies deep, in full 3 entrenchment guarding the city.

 

 

The battle for Kiev went stagnant this turn, as rain prevented us using any air power. Little action to report, but Army Group Centre is starting to look dangerously thin on the ground.

 

[Will95]

And with that, I concede.

 

Mistakes were definitely made in the very early turns that made it much harder later on. I didn't do enough damage in the opening gambit and lost too much armour foolishly. Sorry it's been such a short AAR- but I urge you to turn your attention to Steele and Ash as they're going to try and give you a real match!