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Miles1717

Black Sea or older CM game

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All this talk of CMFI got me nostalgic, I popped in and played a little snowy Italian mainland tank battle. Man, that was fun. Remember, I've been deep into 'modern war' about 6 months longer than the rest of you! :D

 

I'd still advise playing the demos and buying what you like. Don't try weighing value-for-money because the 'value' comes from having fun. If IS-2 heavy versus Tiger I sounds like fun to you - there you go!

Edited by MikeyD

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I think you have the right idea : play the demos and go with the one you enjoy the most.

If do you pick CMBN try to pick up the Commonwealth module - it adds more variety of forces and maps.

Also someone already mentioned joining an online war gaming club, I'll just add one more theBlitz (link in my sig). No matter what title you pick you will be able to find opponents.

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So what do you recommend I do? I have deffinatly eliminated the Big Bundle from my options...Would CMBN still be worth it?

 

If your deciding factor is going to be initial expense, then there are only two real choices: CMBS if you want to play Modern era, or CMRT if you want to play WW2. Neither of these have any modules released yet, so they will be the least expensive for you to purchase right now.

 

Just keep in mind that, if you get as addicted to these games as most of us on these forums, you are eventually going to purchase everything anyway. ;-)

 

 

Edit: And no, I would not just purchase the base game of either CMBN or CMFI. Doing so will severely limit your multiplayer options. Most of us who play either of these games multiplayer have all the modules/packs/upgrades. These two are an all-in purchase at this time, IMO. 

Edited by Doug Williams

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I dont think you can go wrong no matter your choice. The mod and scenario community are exceptional here. I do however like our modern titles more but the best value and the most active will always be the WWII titles. Now you just get to decide which nationality and equipment will be the closest to your interest. Good luck and welcome aboard.

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I would agree that the WWII titles will always be the most active. And, with the focus shifting to the Bulge title, that will be even more so for awhile. As others have said, you really can't go wrong with any CM title, as they are all pure gold. However, when forced to choose one, I'd echo that you first need to identify what time period and what nationality/equipment you really want. The infantry fights in CMBS can be amazing. However, the scenario needs to be one that allows the infantry the breathing space to fight. As with bocage putting off some players in CMBN, it's not really a question of the game itself, rather, how the scenario design and map selection have been applied. So, CMBS can be infantry heaven and CMBN can be very free-flowing with rapid movement.

 

So, first make the choice: modern or WW2.

 

Modern=CMBS.

 

That was easy. Now, if it's WWII...

 

The next question is also pretty easy. Do you prefer West or East front?

 

East Front=CMRT.

 

If you say West Front, then it gets a bit harder to choose between CMBN and CMFI. However, as a new player, I'd recommend that you get CMBN. Being later in the war, both the Germans and Allies have better infantry AT weapons and those give infantry a big bone, create more tactical interest, and add a huge amount of fun. Additionally, CMBN has the most mods and community-made scenarios.

 

When choosing CMBN or CMFI, don't even think about passing on the full upgrade path. Just do it. That puts the two games on gameplay parity with CMRT and CMBS.

 

Honestly, the best value really is the CMBN full bundle. With that you have gameplay parity, the most scenario content, the widest variety of units, the most mods, and the largest active player base. The only downside is that there will be some duplication of units when the Bulge title comes out. (But by then, you probably won't care at all!)

 

However, if that is too pricey, then I'd also agree with getting CMBN+CW+any needed upgrades to current.

 

IIRC, the CMBN demo is quite old (like version 2x?), so you may not really get what you need from it. I just loaded up my first game of CMBN 3.11 since CMBS came out and it's blowing my socks off. I forgot how truly awesome it is! I believe the CMFI demo is newer, but still not current, so be aware that the gameplay in the current, fully-upgraded game may be enhanced over what is in the demo.

 

To help you make your decision, I'm going to make a quick CMBN video with some caps from my current game. I'll drop a link here after I've uploaded it in the next couple of hours.

 

-Hope all this helps and another welcome aboard to 'ya!

Edited by Macisle

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However, when forced to choose one, I'd echo that you first need to identify what time period and what nationality/equipment you really want. The infantry fights in CMBS can be amazing. However, the scenario needs to be one that allows the infantry the breathing space to fight.

 

So, first make the choice: modern or WW2.

 

Modern=CMBS.

 

 Do you prefer West or East front?

 

East Front=CMRT.

 

If you say West Front, then it gets a bit harder to choose between CMBN and CMFI. However, as a new player, I'd recommend that you get CMBN. 

 

When choosing CMBN or CMFI, don't even think about passing on the full upgrade path. Just do it. That puts the two games on gameplay parity with CMRT and CMBS.

 

 The only downside is that there will be some duplication of units when the Bulge title comes out. (But by then, you probably won't care at all!)

 

However, if that is too pricey, then I'd also agree with getting CMBN+CW+any needed upgrades to current.

 

IIRC, the CMBN demo is quite old (like version 2x?), so you may not really get what you need from it. I just loaded up my first game of CMBN 3.11 since CMBS came out and it's blowing my socks off. I forgot how truly awesome it is! I believe the CMFI demo is newer, but still not current, so be aware that the gameplay in the current, fully-upgraded game may be enhanced over what is in the demo.

 

To help you make your decision, I'm going to make a quick CMBN video with some caps from my current game. I'll drop a link here after I've uploaded it in the next couple of hours.

 

Thank you for your extensive reply, I'll provide some feed back so you can help me butcher the options down a little further.

 

I finally got a chance to sit down and try out a scenario, CMBS really amazed me on the gauntlet mission, it was all infantry and was exactly what I was looking for. That being said, I'm sure most the missions are more vehicle centered. The other demos seem a little outdated, so I will have to compare them to youtube videos of the other games. 

 

As for the theater I want, It really doesn't matter for me, it seems like most the WW2 games are similar while the modern ones are a whole different beast. The modern games seem like they focus a whole lot on the gear you have, and how you use this gear (NVGs, AT4s, rifle grenades, etc.). While the older ones seem like where you place your troops and the timing of your attacks. 

 

I personally used to be a WW2 buff, so really every part of the war interests me. However me being an America, I usually like playing as my own nation. And for Black sea, I have been recently watching some reports on the war. Both WW2 and the Ukraine-Russian war interest me equally, I guess it all depends on what type of gameplay I am looking for.

 

If anyone can show me some good videos comparing or showing off distinct gameplay footage of what I should expect, I think I can make my final decision, after all...I can get another one in a month or so. And I have also Decided that the $105 is too much, so maybe I should pick up either Black Sea, Red Thunder, or Fortress Italy bundle and then decide If its worth it to me before purchasing the whole BN pack.

 

Also is there any news or speculation when the Battle of the bulge will come out? If its over a year away, it wont effect my decision. Only if it is 6 months or closer; I would just get Black Sea, and pick up a WW2 game then.

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Thank you for your extensive reply, I'll provide some feed back so you can help me butcher the options down a little further.

 

I finally got a chance to sit down and try out a scenario, CMBS really amazed me on the gauntlet mission, it was all infantry and was exactly what I was looking for. That being said, I'm sure most the missions are more vehicle centered. The other demos seem a little outdated, so I will have to compare them to youtube videos of the other games. 

 

As for the theater I want, It really doesn't matter for me, it seems like most the WW2 games are similar while the modern ones are a whole different beast. The modern games seem like they focus a whole lot on the gear you have, and how you use this gear (NVGs, AT4s, rifle grenades, etc.). While the older ones seem like where you place your troops and the timing of your attacks. 

 

I personally used to be a WW2 buff, so really every part of the war interests me. However me being an America, I usually like playing as my own nation. And for Black sea, I have been recently watching some reports on the war. Both WW2 and the Ukraine-Russian war interest me equally, I guess it all depends on what type of gameplay I am looking for.

 

If anyone can show me some good videos comparing or showing off distinct gameplay footage of what I should expect, I think I can make my final decision, after all...I can get another one in a month or so. And I have also Decided that the $105 is too much, so maybe I should pick up either Black Sea, Red Thunder, or Fortress Italy bundle and then decide If its worth it to me before purchasing the whole BN pack.

 

Also is there any news or speculation when the Battle of the bulge will come out? If its over a year away, it wont effect my decision. Only if it is 6 months or closer; I would just get Black Sea, and pick up a WW2 game then.

 

I agree with your analysis.

 

Yeah, in CMBS, I usually bounce back and forth between playing as the Ukrainians or the Russians. In a WW2 setting, I usually play as the US.

 

I'm about halfway done with my new vid. Here are links to the CM Theater threads for CMRT and CMBN:

 

CMBN Theater

 

CMRT Theater

 

I never got CMFI (enjoyed the demo, though), so I'll let others post on that one.

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Okay, here she is--hot off the press (I left icons on for this one--from a current QB against the AI):

 

 

This one I did for CMBS moves quite quickly (a very fast effort and real gameplay from a turn), but shows some of the current mods in action:

 

 

And here's one I did for CMRT (very staged for cinematic effect):

 

 

(I can't get the blasted embed to work on this one, even though it's formatted exactly as the others. Aargh.)

Edited by Macisle

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MIlesb11 and Macisle,

 

The CMBN Demo, as of just a few days ago, is practically antediluvian. 1.10. Consequently, it bears very little resemblance to CMBN as it exists today in fully upgraded and patched 3.11. The differences are so significant that I feel it reasonable to compare the Demo vs fully current CMBN as of roughly a primitive B&W CRT TV vs a 720p LCD TV. Simply going from 1.10 to 2.0 and 2.12 required a major retraining effort, because so much had changed. And with 3.0, things verging on miraculous occurred. Rumors say many virgins mysteriously disappeared, but be that as it may, the fact is BFC managed to greatly improve load times and turn processing, as well. But when it comes to serious conjuration, BFC did something incredible. Without requiring a single change to either our rigs or their software, BFC figured out a way to tremendously improve the renderings themselves. To someone with a whole 256K of VRAM and no real upgrade path, this was very nearly stupefying. In a great way. Drastically changed the whole look of the game, and what I see is now much closer to what those with higher end rigs have. The resulting improved feel and immersiveness are hard to describe if you were working with low end capabilities previously. The CMBN Demo is but a shadow of what full CMBN is, how it looks, plays and what it makes possible. If you think I'm exaggerating, I invite you to compare your Demo to this.

 

 

Regards,

 

John Kettler

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Does anyone have a general idea of when the new bulge game will come out? 

 

There hasn't been any official word on a release date, but I would say the very earliest is mid-fall.

 

The game is in alpha right now so its not going to be "soon"

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I would buy CMBS now and wait for the new CM Bulge for the WW2 stuff.

That way you will get the latest version of the engine in modern warfare and WW2.

The older WW2 games are still not discounted and you have to pay for the v3.0 Engine update so you would pay more for the older titles.

Edited by Wiggum15

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...the very earliest is mid-fall.

 

The game is in alpha right now so its not going to be "soon"

Thank you for that! 

 

I have watched all the videos you guys submitted, and I am leaning towards CM:RT as its cheap, has 3.0 included, and I want to learn more about the eastern front. Then I can always get CM:BN or CM:BS

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Thank you for that! 

 

I have watched all the videos you guys submitted, and I am leaning towards CM:RT as its cheap, has 3.0 included, and I want to learn more about the eastern front. Then I can always get CM:BN or CM:BS

 

You can't go wrong with Red Thunder, its a great deal for 55$.

 

Be warned though, the campaigns for both sides involve a lot of units, especially the Russians where you are playing with Battalion + sometimes. Start out with small scenarios and work your way up as you get more comfortable with the game, and good luck!

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The important part is that you DONT support the paid engine Updates.

If they want me to pay for them then make a core version (which could also be the demo) and separate the data content from it so people dont have to pay for every game if they want the new engine.

Imagine v4.0 arrives and you have CMRT, CMBN and CMFI...you would have to pay 30$ to update them all...or just spend 10$ for the update of the core version and play CMRT, CMBN and CMFI with engine v4.0.

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The important part is that you DONT support the paid engine Updates.

If they want me to pay for them then make a core version (which could also be the demo) and separate the data content from it so people dont have to pay for every game if they want the new engine.

Imagine v4.0 arrives and you have CMRT, CMBN and CMFI...you would have to pay 30$ to update them all...or just spend 10$ for the update of the core version and play CMRT, CMBN and CMFI with engine v4.0.

 

Take your rant somewhere else, he can decide what he wants to spend his money on.

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All i try to tell him is this:

If you now buy CMBN and CMFI you pay 55$x2 (games) + 10$x2(v3.0)

Now if the next version of the engine is released maybe with the bulge game you would have "outdated" games as long as don't again pay 10$x2 for the next engine updates.

So then you had spent 150$ on both those games (without addons).

What i try to say is that with the current model it can be expansive to buy older games.

Thats why i would say if you want WW2 wait for the Bulge game or get CMRT.

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The important part is that you DONT support the paid engine Updates.

 

Bull****.

 

Absolutely we should support the paid engine Updates. That is what keeps the older titles on par with the newer ones.

 

What I would support is lowering the "bundle" prices for new players on the older titles, thus reducing their initial expense for buying a "Family".

 

I will never begrudge $10 for updating an older title to a newer engine.

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{...] I have decided to pick up one of the combat mission games,as they are expensive,I will get only one(for now). Just in case it isn't the game for me. [...]

Yeah, you say that now.  You'll see.  :-)

 

There are demos for each. Each has a different flavor. Try all the demos. You may find that one really appeals to you. As others have said, and I agree, CMFI/GL has some really interesting scenarios and equipment. 

 

Black Sea is great. I like WW2 but also in my time in the Army I trained to fight WW3 in Europe. While Black Sea is newer than that, the things I learned I can put in practice. Some of the equipment is still the same even now.

So I didn't give you a definitive answer. 

 

If you buy one you'll be back. Oh, and plenty of users for each. I have PBEM games right now going in Gustav Line,  Strike Force, Red Thunder and Black Sea, and just finished one in Market Garden.  (being an ex-paratrooper I'm partial to that one)

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Thank you for that! 

 

I have watched all the videos you guys submitted, and I am leaning towards CM:RT as its cheap, has 3.0 included, and I want to learn more about the eastern front. Then I can always get CM:BN or CM:BS

 

Red Thunder would be an excellent choice and those are good supporting reasons. Also, that would eliminate the duplication factor that would come from buying CMBN or CMFI now and Bulge later.

 

Just a few additional things to consider though:

  • Soviet infantry do not have the equivalent of bazookas, panzershrecks, or panzerfausts. They have AT rifles that are effective vs. very light armor and AT grenades that are effective at grenade range.
  • Currently, CMRT has only the base module, meaning you get Wehrmacht vs. either standard Soviet or Guards formations (visually pretty much the same). With CMBN or CMFI bundled, you'd have a lot more flavors and formations. CW, SS, Airborne for all major nationalities, etc.

So, Red Thunder is a great choice as long as you will be content with the formations it covers until Bulge comes out.

 

As for paying for upgrades, don't even worry about it. Just do it. Gamemakers have to pay bills and eat, too. Life is funny that way and some people refuse to accept it, despite being older than say, JHS age. For the cost of a beer or two at the pub, you get essentially unlimited play value out of your purchase with it being made current with the newer titles. Per hour, fully-upgraded CM is the cheapest form of entertainment on the planet. The prices are very fair.

 

So, to sum up, get what you actually want to play and think you will be happy with. All of the titles are great.

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Red Thunder would be an excellent choice and those are good supporting reasons. Also, that would eliminate the duplication factor that would come from buying CMBN or CMFI now and Bulge later.

 

So, Red Thunder is a great choice as long as you will be content with the formations it covers until Bulge comes out.

I very much would get CM:BN, but as I stated I simply don't have the money for all my games. I also am looking to get that new Rainbow six game if the reviews are good, and Im a backer of star citizen. I just can't be spending 200+ on video games, I'll hold of on Normandy and get Bulge when it comes out, hopefully in the next year. 

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I very much would get CM:BN, but as I stated I simply don't have the money for all my games. I also am looking to get that new Rainbow six game if the reviews are good, and Im a backer of star citizen. I just can't be spending 200+ on video games, I'll hold of on Normandy and get Bulge when it comes out, hopefully in the next year. 

 

Sounds good. Have fun with CMRT. I'm sure you'll be very happy with it.

 

Here is a link to the main mod source outside of BF's Repository:

 

GAJ's CMMods

 

You can find the same mods I used in my video and many more there, along with scenarios.

 

Enjoy!

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