Bulletpoint Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Been wondering about this for quite a while, as US machineguns don't really seem to be as powerful. I know MG42 has a reputation, but when I target 4 Stuarts on one enemy team, that's 8 machineguns against 2 enemy soldiers. They don't fall back and even fire at closed range against my assault team. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highlandcharge Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 (edited) What cover is the MG42 behind? Also what was the experience lvl of the MG42 team? Edited March 11, 2015 by highlandcharge 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMac Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 (edited) I don't believe it's just for the Germans. You should notice that many other MG's also have variable rates of fire per cycle. Joe Edited March 11, 2015 by JoMc67 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 It's not just the germans. The lead broom isn't a perfect hedgerow sanitiser. Sometimes they get lucky and don't take any casualties, and if they're any better than Normal, it'll take a lot of repeated suppression to make them bug out without causing a casualty. And they will always rally within 30s, even if Pinned, once you stop the suppression. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highlandcharge Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 (edited) I always try to the use the main tank cannon on mg42s until they are dead or totally routed/broken... The mg42 is a scary weapon and should be feared, I think the game feels right MG wise for all sides. Edited March 11, 2015 by highlandcharge 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apocal Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Been wondering about this for quite a while, as US machineguns don't really seem to be as powerful. You've never tried to gain protection from 50cal fire by hiding in a flimsy building then. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted March 11, 2015 Author Share Posted March 11, 2015 (edited) You've never tried to gain protection from 50cal fire by hiding in a flimsy building then. Maybe I should have specified that I was not talking about the 50cal It's very rare that infantry have it (in the campaigns and scenarios), and in hedgerow country it's rare to be able to get the range to unbutton tanks reasonably safely, in order to use theirs. Edited March 11, 2015 by Bulletpoint 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted March 11, 2015 Author Share Posted March 11, 2015 (edited) Maybe I should ask in a different way to be more clear: Were both US and German machineguns boosted, compared to their abilities when the game was originally launched? Edited March 11, 2015 by Bulletpoint 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Maybe I should ask in a different way to be more clear: Were both US and German machineguns boosted, compared to their abilities when the game was originally launched? Yes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Bulletpoint, Do you have canister? Stuarts in Normandy did and used it quite effectively vs MG nests in the bocage. Doubler in Closing with the Enemy directly states this as a tactic in Normandy for getting across the farm fields without getting eaten alive by the MGs firing from opposite corners, unfortunately, you can't duplicate the tactic, since you can't put infantry on them to blaze away when the tanks breach the hedgerow. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted March 13, 2015 Author Share Posted March 13, 2015 Bulletpoint, Do you have canister? Stuarts in Normandy did and used it quite effectively vs MG nests in the bocage. Doubler in Closing with the Enemy directly states this as a tactic in Normandy for getting across the farm fields without getting eaten alive by the MGs firing from opposite corners, unfortunately, you can't duplicate the tactic, since you can't put infantry on them to blaze away when the tanks breach the hedgerow. Regards, John Kettler I have lots of canister rounds, but the tanks will only use them when they directly spot enemy soldiers. Anyway, my post was not a complaint about machineguns, neither was it about the tactical situation. It was just curiosity about how the game works and wondering how eight machineguns blazing away wouldn't force the enemy to fall back. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banex Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 The Stuarts do have HE rounds as well,they should be enough to deal with foxholes,with only a small gun compared to the Shermans,it's not as effective but should do the job.Trenches are another matter though,i would bring arty for those.Canister is mainly used for troops in the open. As far as falling back,if you have the enemy supressed,they are going nowhere.Ease off for a turn and let the Stuarts do their own thing,once they see a head popping up,they'll use the canister or HE alright. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted March 14, 2015 Author Share Posted March 14, 2015 As far as falling back,if you have the enemy supressed,they are going nowhere.Ease off for a turn and let the Stuarts do their own thing,once they see a head popping up,they'll use the canister or HE alright. This is also something that puzzles me, because if I send a squad up against a hedgerow, and they start taking MG fire from the other side, after about 2 minutes of being pinned, they will get up and run away. Sometimes I can flush out enemies in this way too, but often they will just get stuck to the ground seemingly forever, as long as I keep firing on them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banex Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 (edited) Don't send a squad up against a hedgerow,send two scouts.Once you find the two guys suppressed,then send a couple or more squads in at the same time.The MG won't be able to suppress them all,thus you will gain fire superiority and the MG won't be there for long either. Edited March 14, 2015 by Banex 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apocal Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Bulletpoint, Do you have canister? Stuarts in Normandy did and used it quite effectively vs MG nests in the bocage. Doubler in Closing with the Enemy directly states this as a tactic in Normandy for getting across the farm fields without getting eaten alive by the MGs firing from opposite corners, unfortunately, you can't duplicate the tactic, since you can't put infantry on them to blaze away when the tanks breach the hedgerow. Regards, John Kettler Doubler doesn't say anything about Stuarts firing canister in Closing with the Enemy. He mentions Stuarts only in passing and in the chapter about the bocage fighting, doesn't once refer to canister rounds. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highlandcharge Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 (edited) Obviously the MGs on the tanks are not enough to suppress the mg42 team behind the bocage, wether its because of the cover or the mg42 teams level of experience and high morale.... or a combination of both. To me, if small arms fail to make the enemy run or become suppressed enough, its time to break out the big guns....bocage is thick stuff... Edited March 15, 2015 by highlandcharge 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMac Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 (edited) I think the use of Vets ( especially with bonuses ) make them almost impervious to incoming fire. This is why I only use Green Troops ( with some use of Leadership & Motivation Bonuses ) in my games as it better reflects RL Battlefield conditions...It may now only take a 2-3 MG's or Inf Platoon to Suppress and eventually make an enemy Squad run away within couple turns. Edited March 15, 2015 by JoMc67 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted March 15, 2015 Author Share Posted March 15, 2015 (edited) I'm wondering if several machineguns firing at the same square will "stack" the suppressive effect, but from my experience it seems not. If one MG cannot suppress or push back a squad, firing 8 MGs won't do it either... Edited March 15, 2015 by Bulletpoint 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted March 15, 2015 Author Share Posted March 15, 2015 (edited) Don't send a squad up against a hedgerow,send two scouts.Once you find the two guys suppressed,then send a couple or more squads in at the same time.The MG won't be able to suppress them all,thus you will gain fire superiority and the MG won't be there for long either. This is sound advice, and really that's what I would normally do. I'm not a complete newbie, I just like to think too much about how the game works Actually I did not have trouble clearing the enemy position, it was isolated and I had plenty of firepower. I just thought I would try to see if I had enough firepower to flush them out by sheer MG fire. It did not work, and the enemy team was even able to fire back once I got closer. Not sure about their troop quality etc. Edited March 15, 2015 by Bulletpoint 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 (edited) It's not that the machine gun boost was only applied to German machine guns, it's that it was applied differently to machine guns mounted on vehicles, which is what you are using. The rate of fire for vehicle mounted machine guns is still at pre-boost levels, which is roughly 60% of boost level. The game engine cannot separate rates of fire for a vehicle's machine gun and main cannon, so buffing the Stuart's machine gun ROF would also buff its 37mm ROF. To compensate for this the accuracy of vehicle mounted machine guns was significantly boosted. The upshot is that vehicle mounted machine guns are quite deadly with direct fire but kinda suck at area fire. Edited March 15, 2015 by Vanir Ausf B 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted March 16, 2015 Author Share Posted March 16, 2015 It's not that the machine gun boost was only applied to German machine guns, it's that it was applied differently to machine guns mounted on vehicles, which is what you are using. The rate of fire for vehicle mounted machine guns is still at pre-boost levels, which is roughly 60% of boost level. The game engine cannot separate rates of fire for a vehicle's machine gun and main cannon, so buffing the Stuart's machine gun ROF would also buff its 37mm ROF. To compensate for this the accuracy of vehicle mounted machine guns was significantly boosted. The upshot is that vehicle mounted machine guns are quite deadly with direct fire but kinda suck at area fire. Interesting but disappointing to know. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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