Russian equivalent to Javelin

[Scrummage]

In a number of games (PBEM and offline) Javelins wreck total havoc on opposing forces, harder to spot than an M1A2 Deathstar but just as lethal to anything on tracks, wheels or hidden in a building. What russian ATGM is the best match to the javelin in terms of killing power, mobility and probably spotting ability (i guess the javelin launcher optics also make a difference)

[dan/california]

The vehicle mounted Krystemzema is the closest they get.  Javelin  comes in above the engagement envelope of Russian APS.  Trophy doesn't have that blind spot, and the Russians don't really have a diving attack profile missile anyway.  AT-13, and AT-14 are pretty much day wrecking in the absence of APS though.

[Stagler]

Javelinski isn't developed yet no.

[antaress73]

Russian official doctrine didnt require a javelinski because NATO wasnt a potential adversary and Russia didnt expect to fight western tanks. What they had was good enough for potential adversaries. Now that has changed and priorities in programs and fund allocations will change.

Edited February 24, 2015 by antaress73

[antaress73]

Deleted

Edited February 24, 2015 by antaress73

[antaress73]

They had the automat something program but it was scrapped. That will change probably.

[antaress73]

Also according to some, Afganit APS will defeat Javelin. It may be retrofitted to existing tanks. They have also put an emphasis on energy/Emp weapons that according to some may drain batteries in a 10km radius, making Javelin useless. But its not an acknowledged capability. Sensitive stuff has good secrecy on Russia and they like to surprise their adversaries with unexpected and sometimes decisive capabilities.

Edited February 24, 2015 by antaress73

[A Canadian Cat]

energy/Emp weapons that according to some may drain batteries in a 10km radius, making Javelin useless.

Draining batteries ??? Never hear of that - google came up totally empty got any references at all?

EMP could be effective against many weapons with computers and circuits probably some vehicles and night vision gear too.

 

Sensitive stuff has good secrecy on Russia and they like to surprise their adversaries with unexpected and sometimes decisive capabilities.

:lol: It is so secret the inventors don't know about it yet.

[mikeCK]

Emp can disable electronics but much of the Western equipment is protected against Emp pulses. Not sure if it is physically possible to drain a battery without making contact with it but I'm no physicist

[sburke]

Yeah that isn't how an EMP works.  Battery draining is best accomplished by loads of teens with smartphones.

 

An EMP pulse creates an electrical field which causes an overload on typical electrical boards and circuits.  A battery isn't going to notice it. it is a chemical reaction.  Not that it will matter if everything the battery is attached to is fried.  You want to drain the battery, you have to create an electrical draw,  That would take a comic book monster or maybe Godzilla.  Unless Russia has negotiated a treaty with Japan whereby Mothra and Godzilla are loaned to Russia, I don't see this being an option.

[VladimirTarasov]

Afghanistan APS actually has a design criteria to take out top attack missiles such as the Javelin, Will be installed on Armata series not sure on what scale.

[antaress73]

hey I didnt say that it was true hehe for the battery thing hehe let me find where I've read that once

[antaress73]

There you go have fun ! 

 

http://fortruss.blogspot.ca/2015/01/xyz-what-would-happen-if-russian-army.html

[RCE_Spr]

Sweden has a top attack AT system.  It claims to beable to defeat both ERA and APS systems. 

 

http://youtu.be/wReQuox4f9A

[panzersaurkrautwerfer]

 

 

There you go   have fun ! 

 

I want the 20 seconds I wasted starting reading that drivel back. 

[antaress73]

Lol bah sometimes being provocative is fun i heard something from someone somewhere

[antaress73]

Somewhere I was expecting him to write it was tech reversed engineered from a crashed UFO lol

[Denwad]

Yeah that isn't how an EMP works.  Battery draining is best accomplished by loads of teens with smartphones.

 

An EMP pulse creates an electrical field which causes an overload on typical electrical boards and circuits.  A battery isn't going to notice it. it is a chemical reaction.  Not that it will matter if everything the battery is attached to is fried.  You want to drain the battery, you have to create an electrical draw,  That would take a comic book monster or maybe Godzilla.  Unless Russia has negotiated a treaty with Japan whereby Mothra and Godzilla are loaned to Russia, I don't see this being an option.

 EMP are also very low frequency and requires large antennae to "recieve" the burst, on order of kilometers long. most small electrical objects that arent plugged into the grid would probably be unaffected

[mikeCK]

So I guess after APS systems become more successful and reliable, the next generation of ATGMs will be stealthy or have jamming capability, and on it goes

[mikeCK]

So I guess after APS systems become more successful and reliable, the next generation of ATGMs will be stealthy or have jamming capability, and on it goes

On another note I saw this video of a top down directed TOW2b hit. Ouch

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E1VWPOpYbQI

[antaress73]

Yeah .. Death is quick and merciful in older russian tanks with autoloaders

Edited February 25, 2015 by antaress73

[John Kettler]

The Russians do have an electromagnetic mine plough, designated EMT-7. That's a far cry from the kinds of energy weaponry detailed in the FortRuss piece. I have no problem with the crypto gear described. 

 

EMP or NNEMP is an acute threat to electronics unless they're specially hardened. Antennae, cables, cracks and other such things are points of entry even into same. The Navy had an AIM-54 Phoenix AAM "cooked" on a carrier flight deck via battle group RF energy (radars and comms) which entered through a tiny crack in the missile fuselage. The Russians have NNEMP bombs in inventory. How do I know? The Swedes got their hands on one post SU collapse and tested it. It was characterized by their defense authorities as being "devastating to all electronics" in its zone of effect. Here's a paper on what electromagnetic/NNEMP bombs are and how they work.

 

Regards,

 

John Kettler

[c3k]

Some cool research done with collapsing certain materials with focused shaped charge warheads to create the EMP. Very powerful and portable. Warhead sized stuff. Not sure what happened with it. You don't need nukes.

 

 

I think EMP is kinda like the modern chemical weapon. Anyone who uses it should anticipate it being used against them, in turn. The end result would be rough parity, but the ops tempo would be slowed down. (Which is about all chemical weapons can be expected to do against combat forces.)

 

Now, if I'm looking for an asymmetric threat...

 

Interesting field. Even more interesting is how to recover from global-scale EMP. If all the manufacturing machinery is fried, we're back to machinists and lathes. (Imagine EVERY integrated circuit, in operation or in storage, inop; every chip, everywhere.) Fun to think about. A rich field of "what if".

[sburke]

I want the 20 seconds I wasted starting reading that drivel back. 

So you missed the point?  The Russian attack would be launched by hordes of teenagers overrunning the capacity of the electrical grid, draining batteries and engaging in Rave parties.  Gawd Ukraine doesn't stand a chance.

 

As to that Swedish AT weapon, those guys are definitely going to be denied quick movement in CM.....  I loved the 14 second mark - drag that s**t up that hill urgh.....grunt ... ooff.  Whew.  easily movable....Ha.

[panzersaurkrautwerfer]

One of the reasons EMP is so questionable is unlike nuclear weapons, EMP is just not especially effective against military, especially prepared military targets, and it's nigh useless against current nuclear delivery systems.  To a large degree you can gravely hurt a country, but you do not remove the ability of that country to hurt you, and hurt you profoundly.  

 

Which is to say sure you just knocked the entire east coast dark and once the lights come back on, it's going to be something like 1950 for a few years, but by god you've pretty much given the US every justification to use all weapons available short of out and out nuclear warfare (and perhaps not even that).

 

It's really the peril of any large scale weapon, once you cross a certain threshold, you've just invented a nuclear weapon with a different flavor.  It's not something you can employ without triggering the same sort of catastrophic results coming back your way.

 

 

So you missed the point?  The Russian attack would be launched by hordes of teenagers overrunning the capacity of the electrical grid, draining batteries and engaging in Rave parties.  Gawd Ukraine doesn't stand a chance.

It always impresses me the sort of non-thought process that goes into assessing relative military strength.  To whip out Hegelian thought and stuff:

 

Thesis: American military power is supreme and unchallenged

Anti-Thesis: Russia has some pretty strong capabilities too, and the US stuff has some clear limitations.

Synthesis: Both military forces have significant strengths and weaknesses.  I asses the US to be better at ABC, Russia good at D and E, while both share the weaknesses X and Y, while Russia alone holds a monopoly on being bad at Z, thus the US is marginally better or some such.

 

I think it's become fashionable to hit the anti-thesis of "Russia is strong and the US has limitations" and then stopping there without challenging the Russian assertions of supremacy and capability, or accepting that there are some pretty dire limitations on Russian military forces and equipment.  If I made a claim that the US Army has DEW type weapons, the ability to totally annihilate all Russian communications, and a laser that will cause anyone of Russian blood to wee themselves, then I'd be justifiably laughed at.  Someone claims the Russians have the DEWs, can shut down all US electronics, and a laser that'll make bees kill Americans on command....SHOCKING REVELATION ABOUT RUSSIAN SUPERIORITY AGAINST HATO DOG AMERICANS.  Russian claims need to get the same level of scrutiny as American claims, with the additional caveat they're doing it on a smaller budget with more limited technology (in the practical sense of R&D, it doesn't rule out doing "smart" stuff, it's just they have a drastically smaller tech sector to work on such things/come up with stuff the military can steal)