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lordhedgwich

Graphics suck?!!?!?!

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Steel Beasts did a major graphical overhaul last year and it made a huge difference in the overall quality of the game.  But it sure looked like a long and painful haul for eSims.  I think sooner than later BFC will have to do it as well.  OpenGL is not a standard with a very bright future and I would think it makes it difficult to do some of the basic things that most gamers expect out of the box in a game in 2015.

 

Dont say that mate.

 

People dont like change around here.

 

"Ohhh I dont like change, it makes me nervous and I like to do things the way they've been done for years. Theres nothing wrong with how it is now"...

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...They sell games to people, those games are not cheap...

 

If you see them as just another computer game company, ... maybe.

 

But if you see them as an alternative miniature tabletop war game company... 

 

It really depends on, what do you think Combat Mission games are.

 

Just imagine the costs (time, money, space), that you would have to invest to play a CMBS battalion size battle on a huge map ...with miniatures...

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I belive the fact that the game is so easy to mod (wav and bmp are common formats), has a dedicated folder for mods (Z folder system) and modding instruments (rezpack and rezexplode) is proof that BFC cares about modding.

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There is. Panzer Command Ostfront.

 

CM games ARE the most state of the art in this particular niche.

 

 

I have been saying this till I am blue in the face but wargaming is not a niche anymore - probably thanks to the medium of the internet.

CM series will be a niche if they are continued to be maintained as such, but the resources and tools are out there to generate more sales - they have to be exploited to gain more of the market share before a better product comes along and trumps them.

Edited by Stagler

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As a brand new player I have to say that when I first saw the graphics my heart sank, I am sure there must be a problem with my game or something because what I am looking at is not what I've seen in the videos I watched.

 

Where is the option to set graphics settings? all I could find was a dialogue box that asked me to accept 1360 x 720 or something similar I never heard of, really low res.

 

I have always favoured gameplay over graphics but when it comes to 3D simulation type games graphics do matter, these games aren't cheap and apparently even some patches come with a price tag, first impressions... profound disappointment and a sense of confusion.

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...before a better product comes along and trumps them.

 

I doubt this will happen. Battlefront has defined this genre (3d miniature computer wargaming). They have 20 years experience. Combat mission is for tactical 3d wargaming, what Pro Pinball games are for pinball simulations.

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Where is the option to set graphics settings? all I could find was a dialogue box that asked me to accept 1360 x 720 or something similar I never heard of, really low res.

 

Options. Main menu, 3rd from the bottom.

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There is. Panzer Command Ostfront.

 

CM games ARE the most state of the art in this particular niche.

 

Panzer Command Ostfront is a very pare imitation of the CM series. It doesn't reach the heights of the CM series in nearly every conceivible comparison. As a wargamer I respect their effort - without the CM series I would laud their effort.

 

As it stands nothing on the market comes within an asses roar of CM - with better graphics or not.

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Graviteam Tactics is a very different game but it too has a tiny dev team (4 part time members), the maps are enormous, literally hundreds of times bigger than what I've seen in CM, the graphics are superb in comparison, they support the game with regular patches and updates, they have even just announced that they are completely upgrading their old tank sim with new hi res graphics and various other improvements including UI overhaul FOR FREE if you already own the original.

 

My point is technology progresses, user hardware improves and developers of games really should at least try to keep up. The 'AAA' behemoths do obviously but some smaller studios do too, this game looks so out of date its comical. The animations, textures, lighting everything is from the 1990's.

 

What confuses me is the actual gameplay, the mechanics and the concept etc of the CM series is fantastic and appeals to a broad church, tactical squad based play where real world tactics actually work, it should be a must have title for the millions of military gamer types but graphics matter and this games graphics are definitely holding it back and keeping it 'niche'.

Edited by guetapens

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What confuses me is the actual gameplay, the mechanics and the concept etc of the CM series appeals to a broad church, tactical squad based play where real world tactics actually work, it should be a must have title for the millions of military gamer types but graphics matter and this games graphics are definitely holding it back and keeping it 'niche'.

 

What are all these 'military gamer types' playing instead of CM that have better graphics at the moment?

 

Most military simulations still rely on hex and counter graphics to this very day with a few notable exceptions. As for full 3D simulations you have CM, Graviteam Tactics and Scourge of War - after that my mind goes blank trying to think of others.

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What are all these 'military gamer types' playing instead of CM that have better graphics at the moment?

 

 

 

Total war games, Graviteam Tactics, Men of war, Wargame franchise, World in conflict, Company of heroes, the Arma series, the Close Combat series and others, all good games in their way but in my opinion they are more popular because they look better not because they play better.

 

There is a whole universe of strategy titles, the hearts of Iron series for example that appeal to those who like to play strategic or tactical type military based games.

 

I am convinced that if this game had a massive graphics upgrade and was overhauled in the usability department then sales would rocket.

 

As I stated in an earlier post, like many others, for me gameplay trumps appearance, however appearance does matter and to many it is important. I am sure that many players that opt for CoH for example are seduced by the graphics but in reality are looking for something that plays more like Combat Mission.

Edited by guetapens

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... hex and counter graphics...

 

That stuff I should play again. The last game in this style I played was Korsun Pocket.

What are good choices that came out in the last years? Can someone recommend something I should check out?

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Total war games, Graviteam Tactics, Men of war, Wargame franchise, World in conflict, Company of heroes, the Arma series, the Close Combat series and others, all good games in their way but in my opinion they are more popular because they look better not because they play better.

 

The Total War series is like playing a game of pretty rock paper scissors with next to nothing at all modeled accurately. And Graviteam Tactics has some laugh out loud infantry poses.

 

Pretty lighting algorithms do not a good game make.

Edited by Vein

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What are all these 'military gamer types' playing instead of CM that have better graphics at the moment?

 

Most military simulations still rely on hex and counter graphics to this very day with a few notable exceptions. As for full 3D simulations you have CM, Graviteam Tactics and Scourge of War - after that my mind goes blank trying to think of others.

 

Mainly Arma, mainly Wargame, other such as Total war, close combat, DCS, Steel beasts.

 

The tactical wargame market has exploded in the past three years. They are different types of games, but they all tick the same wargame box - and players who like one will like other similar games including CM. Ask anyone who plays arma, they will say that they enjoy cm in the same way. It ticks the same box. It gives us the right endorphins when plans are executed quite literally with military precision ingame.

 

Coincidence that all the new players that have come over since CMBS was released are wargame veterans? Not at all.

 

At this time, Eugen is developing a futuristic C&C clone. They have promised to revisit wargame in a few years. They are good at adapting and providing for their community. People want more immersion. People want more realism. They will cater for this when they revisit the series, to what level I dont know but I can guarantee it will become more and more like combat mission.

 

As I have said a million times before - a first step is not even graphics for Battlefront. Its damned proper multiplayer framework instead of the late 90s technology the games have now. Give us lobbies. Give us friends lists so we can invite friends and matchmake games. Give us hosting capability.

Edited by Stagler

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Total war games, Graviteam Tactics, Men of war, Wargame franchise, World in conflict, Company of heroes, the Arma series, the Close Combat series and others, all good games in their way but in my opinion they are more popular because they look better not because they play better.

 

 

You are comparing CM - a tactical wargaming simulator - with Total war, Men of war, World in conflict and Company of heroes all arcade RTS games. Close Combat is a 2D game firmly rooted in the early 90's while Arma is an FPS.

 

Like I was saying barring CM, Graviteam Tactics and Scourge of War there are very little games on the market that are 3D tactical wargaming simulators. That you can only point to vapid RTS games, an FPS game and a twenty year old 2D tactical game kind of proves the point I was making.

 

I'll ask again - where are all these 'military gamer types' playing instead of CM that have better graphics at the moment? Are they getting their military simulation from Company of Heroes - where tanks duke it out ten feet from each other and your base builds you a new infantry squad every thirty seconds? Lets face it most wargaming aficionados are still playing table-top, board-games, hex and counter computer games or playing CM, Graviteam Tactics and Scourge of War. They aren't playing Men of War because it has prettier graphics.

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I think that overhauling graphics might increase sales, however the real problem, in my opinion, is that Battlefront sales strategy is a little bit dated already. All the above mentioned games are distributed through many, many different online distributors, Steam, etc. Even Matrix Games is gradually moving to Steam. However, Battlefront doesn't want to share any revenues with anyone, which in turn means that they distribute on their own, they have small sales numbers, they charge high price, etc. It was ok 10 years ago, when most of the games were sold on shelves, however distribution costs have decreased a lot over the last 10 years. Yes, you have to share revenues with distributor, but market size is many times more what you currently have. And more sales means more revenues (yes, with lower margin), which in turn generates money for future projects. Like somebody said, war games are not a niche anymore. CM games stand out from other tactics games, they are really a gem. But for some reason, Battlefront cowers in the woods, does not show up in the big market with a really good product. If i was Battlefront, i would at least try for one year to go to "large waters" and see what happens. By the way, to be honest, i found about CM only by reading some blogs, while Total War series is to some extent crap, but everyone knows about it.

 

And finally, short comment to what Steve said about 2-3 years of new engine development. They don't have to reinvent wheel and create new rendering engine. They could licence Unity 3D or any other already well established, cross-platform, rendering engine and spend time only on developing game logic.

 

Just my 2 cents

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That stuff I should play again. The last game in this style I played was Korsun Pocket.

What are good choices that came out in the last years? Can someone recommend something I should check out?

 

 

Command Ops: Highway to the Reich is a great hex and counter style game (dispite not having hexes). I'd recommend all the Command Ops series as really interesting tactical wargaming where old style hex and counter gets a very interesting modern make-over.

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I'll ask again - where are all these 'military gamer types' playing instead of CM that have better graphics at the moment? Are they getting their military simulation from Company of Heroes - where tanks duke it out ten feet from each other and your base builds you a new infantry squad every thirty seconds? Lets face it most wargaming aficionados are still playing table-top, board-games, hex and counter computer games or playing CM, Graviteam Tactics and Scourge of War. They aren't playing Men of War because it has prettier graphics.

 

I anwsered your question.

 

All those games I said they play because of gameplay not graphics.

Edited by Stagler

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I anwsered your question.

 

All those games I said they play because of gameplay not graphics.

 

No you are mixing up genres like RTS and FPS with tactical combat simulators. They are playing these games because they like RTS and FPS style games not because they have fancier graphics than tactical combat simulators.

 

Not sure if you are seriously trying to argue that Total War is mad popular with wargaming fans because it has great graphics despite being a very sub-par RTS and as close to realistic tactical game-play as Space Invaders is.

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No you are mixing up genres like RTS and FPS with tactical combat simulators. They are playing these games because they like RTS and FPS style games not because they have fancier graphics than tactical combat simulators.

 

Not sure if you are seriously trying to argue that Total War is mad popular with wargaming fans because it has great graphics despite being a very sub-par RTS and as close to realistic tactical game-play as Space Invaders is.

 

Read my original post again.

The genre is irrelevant. The same gamer plays these games, because they are given the same level of satisfaction and "feel" when playing.

 

It has been said before on this forum, on eugen forums, on bi forums, on steel beasts forum, on simhq forum.

 

That is the market for combat mission. Which is currently lying unexploited by BF Company.

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Read my original post again.

The genre is irrelevant. The same gamer plays these games, because they are given the same level of satisfaction and "feel" when playing.

 

It has been said before on this forum, on eugen forums, on bi forums, on steel beasts forum, on simhq forum.

 

That is the market for combat mission. Which is currently lying unexploited by BF Company.

 

The genre is is certainly not irrelevant. You are comparing mindless RTS games with rock, paper, scissor type tactics and FPS games to complicated tactical simulators. If you are seriously suggesting there could be a massive cross-over between these genres 'if only the graphics improved' with tactical simulators I would suggest you are badly mistaken.

 

The makers of RTS and FPS games are in fact going in the opposite direction from high fidelity simulators and are continuing to dumb down their products in recent years. The exact reverse of what should be happening if their core consumers are crying out for high fidelity tactical simulators with AAA graphics.

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