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Backstory events sliding toward Nonfiction

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Its not a double standard skinfaxi - he's one of the owners of the game company and hence the website. So you're posting on HIS message forum essentially. And you were warned.  And US had posession of Russia and its wealth in the 90's?? Can you mail me some of what you've been smoking?  I'll tell you one thing, I lived in Western Europe during the Cold War and the US in the 90s.  In the 90s Russia was a joke in the US. We didnt want anything made in Russia, or Russian at all. This trend of people not wanting things Russian seems to extend back decades. Thousands of people were shot, imprisoned and detained for trying to flee Russian controlled areas in Europe.  One of the great jokes of history is the Russian statement that the Berlin Wall was made to keep people out of the Socialist Paradise. In fact I seem to remember the US paying the Russian military just to guard its own friggin nuclear weapons.

Edited by Sublime

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And why should he do that? If what he says is according to the rules, then it must be according to the rules if I say the same, too. Otherwise it would be double standards.

 

You got a warning saying that you are not to supposed to make political comments anymore unless the thread is specifically about the political topic you want to talk about. You just made a political statement that was not on topic. Furthermore i have the very strong impression that your previous post was made with the clear intent to provoke, possibly even solely for that purpose.

 

But lets keep it there.

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Augusto has hit the nail on the head. As a moderator I have the responsibility to moderate. Posters have only one responsibility... to not need moderation. It's a simple arrangement.

Skinfaxi, if you want to argue your point of view, do it on another Forum. If you want to talk about Black Sea, do it here. If you can not keep that straight, then you are going to have to do BOTH things somewhere else.

Steve

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I'm almost uncomfortable with Black Sea's setting.  Syria turned into something, but when I was playing through and for most of the game's life it was an interesting super hypothetical scenario that was reasonable, vs an extension of an actual fight.  The Black Sea setting certainly did not stop me from buying the game, enjoying it and playing it lots.  It's just I could have done without the real life interjects that crop up around these parts.

We definitely had a very long think about this back in the Spring. We hoped by the time the game was ready to ship that things would have been resolved. Unfortunately, that did not turn out to be the case. After more than 2 years of active development, it was definitely too late to completely turn it around to something else.

The only option we had was the one we rejected several years ago. And that was to go totally generic, as many First Person Shooter games do. We decided that was "silly" since everybody would know what the game was about and would apply it to Ukraine anyway.

 

 

The best bet to dissuade people from wanting to invade Russia isnt to post pics of tanks and martial might... just take pics of the damn weather currently and the mud :P

A few days ago it was -26c with 80kmh winds and 60cm of snow where I live. And I like it, so good thing I'm not interested in invading Russia any time soon :D

 

 

I agree that recent real-life events have diverged from the storyline, however, recent events are proceeding at an accelerated pace.  It seems to me that the storyline and the real world are on a converging path, if not already there.

 

The recent events have caused us to jump ahead in the storyline close to this point:

As with everything in our Back Story, we selected elements based on previous history and "standing orders". NATO beefing up it's presence (even if superficially) is as predictable as Russia taking Crimea by force at the first sign of trouble in Kiev and Ukraine ramping up its military to meet the threat.

There are factions in and around the U.S. Government that love war, and profit tremendously from our military involvement around the Globe.  As we are seeing just this week; they are ramping up the involvement in Ukraine.  So, it looks to me like we are headed for the very real and dangerous potential for a hot war as depicted in CM:BS.

I don't want to address this specifically, as it has hot button potential, but there is always an argument to be made that ignoring military aggression does nothing but promote more of it. Therefore, NATO not reacting to a war in it's "front yard" is simply not a realistic option. The war in ex Yugoslavia showed quite thoroughly that ignoring a major conflict does not make it go away.

Steve

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I don't have any problems playing Black Sea. During the Cold War and much of the Reagan years the relationship between Russia (Soviet Union) was as frosty as a severe Siberan Winter and there were plenty of wargames to play.

 

If you want something to worry about when it comes to Russia then follow the price of oil and natural gas. Russia is an oil state and highly dependent on the price of both for mcuh of its economic stability.

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Honestly, despite all of the rhetoric coming from all sides and pleas for peace, there is an actual unwillingness to do anything besides play blame game. The results are a lot like Jugoslavia, talks about talks, harsh words, all the while people die.

As for the back story, what is the situation throughout the world? Meaning how much can NATO, mainly the U.S. afford to commit to Ukraine? Is there still a campaign against ISIS? What of GWOT? Or is Ukraine war happening in a vacuum? I saw written USMC invasion near Odessa or in Crimea, how was the massive land based (in Russia proper) ASM threat dealt with for sending ships into Black Sea?

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After more than 2 years of active development, it was definitely too late to completely turn it around to something else.

 

There was no reason for that, the background story is totally fine. It's not your problem if you happen to pick realistic conflict scenarios for your games.

 

Sure, some people (including me) may find it disturbing to play CMBS while simultaneously watching the news in these times, but that's a fault of the game.

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Honestly, despite all of the rhetoric coming from all sides and pleas for peace, there is an actual unwillingness to do anything besides play blame game. The results are a lot like Jugoslavia, talks about talks, harsh words, all the while people die.

True. Which is the lesson NATO is supposed to have learned. And that is an aggressor, completely convinced nobody will stop it, will keep on being aggressive. Once NATO got involved militarily, what happened? The war slowed down and then ended. Granted, this was in part because the Serbs had exhausted themselves and the Bosnians and Croats had successfully created militaries. But the point is that talk doesn't work when the aggressor is deaf.

As for the back story, what is the situation throughout the world? Meaning how much can NATO, mainly the U.S. afford to commit to Ukraine? Is there still a campaign against ISIS? What of GWOT? Or is Ukraine war happening in a vacuum?

It is happening in a vacuum. Or more accurately, not anything more than usual. Currently almost none of NATO's forces are dedicated to any military action at all. The US has a small force in Iraq and only a slightly larger force in Afghanistan. Besides this, it's all normal deployments. Three other things to keep in mind:

1. The US sustained a large war in Iraq at the same time it had a significant war in Afghanistan. It could more easily deploy for a single war in Ukraine even on a larger scale. Which it would not need to do since the US component would not need to be larger than what was in Afghanistan.

2. If the war went "hot" with Russia, every other military commitment would be considered secondary.

3. NATO forces effectively outnumber Russian forces something like 3 or 5 to 1, depending on how forces are counted. This does not include Ukraine's force, obviously, since it is not in NATO. It is very difficult to envision a scenario where NATO couldn't match Russia 1:1 in Ukraine, with Ukraine pushing it to likely 1.5:1 or 2:1. If NATO is on the defensive (as is the case in our back story), that is more than adequate.

I saw written USMC invasion near Odessa or in Crimea, how was the massive land based (in Russia proper) ASM threat dealt with for sending ships into Black Sea?

The idea is they would come from land bases in either Romania and/or Bulgaria. How did they get there? Through the Bosporus prior to hostilities breaking out. We had a discussion about the Black Sea naval situation in another thread and my conclusion then, as is now, that small coastal "hops" would be all that either side could manage. Basically, get from A to B before the other side can react. Anything beyond that and the chance of successful moves are small.

Steve

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Odessa USMC Landing...

 

I have seen that BFC is planning on releasing a new object in game with the first expansion, from the editor's files:

2mgpgnt.jpg

"editor option button container"

 

Which leads to:

1zxsaaa.jpg

port of odessa

Edited by Kieme(ITA)

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I can't really agree with people that are saying nothing bigger then it currently is can come out of this mess. Things can quickly go off the dodo under such circumstances. 

 

As Steve said, spring to summer will be time when things will be the hottest and I'm not relating to air temperatures here.  

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Odessa USMC Landing...

 

I have seen that BFC is planning on releasing a new object in game with the first expansion, from the editor's files:

2mgpgnt.jpg

"editor option button container"

 

Which leads to:

 

port of odessa

 

Naval off map assets?!

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Possibly, for sure some kind of support system coming from a ship ashore.

 

Also, it would be possible to create a [tagged] mod to make sure one of the horizon parts is plain sea, should be very easy...

Now that we have amphibious capability I would expect most probably a true Landing scenario as the starter of USMC campaign.

Edited by Kieme(ITA)

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To be fair to the Russians, having been invaded on several occasions they may be feeling paranoid about being encircled or invaded again. However, perhaps Russians need to understand that their actions can be percieved as threatening from a Western point of view. If both sides are feeling this way that may actually increase the risk of a hot war that nobody wants.

 

Anyway, perhaps we should all consider the game as being, at least partly, an educational tool for understanding and thinking about the conflict and what the consequences could be. Perhaps then it can promote better mutual uderstanding and peaceful slutions as the events portrayed in the game never happen for real.

 

And that is the last political rmark I intend to make on this thread. So lt's all get back to playing the actual game OK :) .

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We would see how Russia-EU negotiations would go (if those do happen), they may yield some results.

One can set his clock after it:

As soon as a good initiative brings progress, the USA is becoming extremely active to sabotage it. This time Kerry immediately jumped into a plane, flew to Kiev and is now even offering a bancrupt country direct weapon deliveries, while this good initiative is gaining momentum. What a ruthless politics of destabilization in such a phase!

 

I still remember well what had happened hours before the Ukrainian persident was ousted: an agreement with all involved parties, all opposition parties signed - the ink was not dry, the members from the meeting had not yet returned and the agent provocateurs already had started shooting.

 

For almost 18 months I observe this evil scheme now and I hope, that this time the European vassals have enough courage to reject the devastating US politics for Europe. A little hope may be that they no longer accept the US being part of their initiatives.

Edited by Skinfaxi

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Skinfaxi A number of people, including the forum admnistrator have kindly requested that you drop it. Please do so. I could very easily pick holes in your last post if I were so minded and so could any of the other very well forum members here. However' this forum is intended for discussion of the CMBS wargame, not for discussion of the real world politics behind it. Everyone, including you, are, of course, entitled to hold poltiical views and I am sure you have some interestiing, if hightly controversial insightson the subject but that discussion is better helld somewhere else

 

I am sure you have a lot of valuable insight from the Russian perspective but perhaps it is better to confine comments to the military and wargame spheres. It would be a real shame if you ignored the friendly advice you have been given and got your account suspended or banned by the forum adminstrator - which he can do!

 

Let us hope that my country and yours never end up fighting this (or any other) war for real.

 

Thank you for your courtesy.

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Lucas,

Sburke,

ok, but then this must be valid for ALL.

Rules that are only applied selectively are no rules. Rules must be valid for all participants. Why is this always and only raised when I post and not when others do the same, when they attack Russia or suggest that Putin wants to annex Ukraine and much more?

I think this behaviour is highly unjust.

Edited by Skinfaxi

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Skinfaxi If you read the pinned thread regarding political discussion it might beyter help you to understand the forum rules. Obvoiusly, like yourself, I am a member, not an administrator but the rules seem pretty clear to me

 

http://community.battlefront.com/topic/116643-politics-discussion-and-black-sea/

 

From my knowledge of history I understand that Russia has a fear of being attacked. Although sometimes it might border on paranoia most informed people understand why Russia and Russians feel that way. After all, during WW2 Hitler did attack the Soviet Union. However, it works the other way as well as seen during the Cold War when the West feared attack by hordes of Russian taks. And Russia very likely feared the same of NATO. And now, due to a confluence of issues and events we seem to be returning to those days.

 

Obviously I don't know your views on Putin and, of course, have no wish to get you into trouble with your country's political authorities. Perhaps another good reason not to discuss the politics of the situation too deeply. However, I will say that it might be that Putin's actions are being viewed with a historical (Cold War era and perhaps even with the lessons of the 1930s in mind. It might be that Putin's motives are not sinister as Hitler's motives were. Perhaps both sides are in a veery defensive frame of mind and are mutualy hostile for historical reasons. Likewise Putin may be viewing actions in Kiev and actions of the West with similar historial fears in mind.

 

Perhaps however it is better not to discuss these political matters here as reccomended by Chris as forum administrator. So you should really just drop it and get back to friendly discussion of the game and related military matters instead. OK :)

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Skinfaxi, I got myself in trouble veering off some other thread topic unintentionally some days ago - I know how it feels. Just give it a rest for one day and it will go away. :) 

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Trying to get this back on track, we might have a candidate for our first CMBS Module:

 

UK to lead 'high readiness' Nato force, Michael Fallon says

The UK will play a lead role in a "high readiness" Nato force that will be established in Eastern Europe, Defence Secretary Michael Fallon has announced.

(...) The UK will be the force's lead nation in 2017 and then on rotation thereafter, Mr Fallon said.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-31147236

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Skinfaxi, I got myself in trouble veering off some other thread topic unintentionally some days ago - I know how it feels. Just give it a rest for one day and it will go away. :)

 

Yes, i is very easy to veer off topic as Hister says when  one is discussing modern conflict issues. Follow Hister's good advice on this one. And maybe we can discuss something else on which you will probably have some extreely valuable insigts. A few days ago  posted a thread suggesting a replay of he 1943 battles of Kursk and the River Mius based on the assumption that, for military and political reasons (negotiating chips) NATO, in the final weeks of the war (NATO victory timeline) mounts limited offensive operations into Russia itself.

 

This is primarily intended as a context for scenarios examining how these battles might be fought with modern  forces and weapons with US and Ukranian troops obviously replacing the Germans. Maybe you and I could adjourn to that thread and discuss  further. It would be very interesting and instructive to get a Russian perspective on the hypothesis.

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You are all wrong!

The truth is: CMBS is a highly sophisticated novorossiyan psyop!

proof:

from the in-game briefing of the "Ambush"-scenario:

 

...Russian troops are quickly moved across the border into the Luhansk and Donetsk regions.

[...] 

A tense standoff results as the Ukrainian and Russian militaries stare each other down at the border of the new state.

 

No words like 'self-proclaimed' or 'entity' or 'renegade' regions.

No.

The back-story says clearly: THE BORDER OF THE NEW STATE!

 

:]

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