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9 hours ago, John Kettler said:

steepdate,

TOW 2B doesn't use a laser at all, no do any other models of TOW.

Regards,

John Kettler

Thanks! No laser, no laser warning then, heh.

Filed under RTFM

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On 23.3.2017 at 0:04 AM, exsonic01 said:

According to unconfirmed report, Russian high command recommended the hero of federation medal to that tree.  :D

What a giving tree, this is the second time during CMBS PBEM, that tree saved my tank :) There are actually 0.1~0.2 sec of difference between two shots. Distance was around 320m. If it were not that tree, Abrams could got my T-72, or this could be a cross counter.

Do you use HQS sound mod?

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The first one ambushed by my T-72B3, getting two shells at the main gun mount and knocked out. The first shot silenced his main gun. My TC was lucky, he barely escaped those 50cals. It was ~600m distance. 

The second kill was achieved in the middle of stand-off situation. Both tank's sight was slightly blocked by the house and a tree. Then, my opponent found my RPG team approaching to his tanks from the woods, and I slightly maneuvered my tank to have a full sight of Abrams and Bradley. He got 152mm shell to the top hatch few turns ago (surprisingly he survived 152mm to the hatch), so his optics or FCS might be damaged. Anyway, I shot first, and the first shell killed the Abrams and shocked the Bradley, and second shot finished the Bradley as well. It was ~400m distance. 

See, the Abrams in CMBS is not super OP tank. It is true that playing Russian in CMBS has more steeper learning curve, and I agree it is much more challenging in most of conditions. But, I believe that it is about tactics and terrain. And this makes playing CMBS redfor much more interesting. 

Edited by exsonic01

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On 3/27/2017 at 8:36 PM, steepdate said:

Fascinating. Yes, this is the second scenario I have seen a Brad-launched TOW score a top-kill, much to my surprise.

steepdate,

This is true for QBs as well. Here are two screenshots from one of my own. TOW 2B was launched from Armored Cavalry Squadron CO's Bradley CFV. Can provide launch imagery if desired. Have launch, several en route pics, and two of the detonation. Lots of work to get those, but this was a time in which there was an enormous amount of complaints (prior to the AI tweak) in which ATGMs on AFVs also armed with auto cannon were hardly ever used. This was my hard proof Bradleys did use TOW.

TOW 2B in what looks like "will miss" geometry above T-90AM, since dual EFP warhead doesn't fire straight down but about 45 degrees forward. Page 3 here shows what the correct flight attitude should be, engagement geometry and the detonation proper. Note the through and through by the EFPs of the tank--in the top and out the bottom. Believe BFC may wish to rethink the way TOW flies and the warhead initiation depiction in light of the official Army test photographs.

ExPt04ihOsj6Dd71gJ9PbUVTx2qwC5wOeeJM7Epk

TOW 2 B near instantly after that. Note penetration. The T-90AM was destroyed.

TyMOtfvtn1NRPuu5ZaQVneMS-jZHEz3DfRomPbJP

Regards,

John Kettler

Edited by John Kettler

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3 hours ago, VladimirTarasov said:

I'm assuming the tank crew was the battalion HQ :D usually the laser warning systems on the Abrams end up with my T-72B3s murdered. Good kills 

Thanks, they are just veteran crews with high morale. It is almost the end of the game, and those Abrams already used up their smoke grenades. 

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Advancements in Russian DU armor inserts has resulted in much tougher T90a

AD3dTUb.jpg

Luckily Ukraine has backed their forces with their own advancements in tech.. levitation boots

y0THWvT.jpg

Edited by Artkin

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SsGwMWp.jpg

 

A brave Stryker armed with Mk19 takes on T72B3 head on - first damaging its turret and commander's optics while slowly eating through ERA before hitting a few weak spots to the sides and rear as a, now panicked, tank tries to maneuver away from the line of fire.

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It's noteworthy how fearless the BMP3 IFV's in CMBS are when confronted with a superior AFV like a tank.  They stand and fight, first by using their 30mm, secondly have seen em use their 100mm gun, and only very occasionally have I seem em use their ATGM's.  Strange.

By comparison, tanks in CMBS act very skittish when being lased - blowing smoke and retreating immediately.  Can't help feeling that IFV's are given too much morale or something if they are more willing to stand and fight than a tank.

And why don't the BMP's use their ATGM's as the first weapon of choice rather than their 30mm??  However, the 30mm is so effective, one wonders why they even need the ATGM's.  (Maybe the CM2 maps are still too small to encourage the use of their ATGM's?)

Edited by Erwin

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1 hour ago, Erwin said:

It's noteworthy how fearless the BMP3 IFV's in CMBS are when confronted with a superior AFV like a tank.  They stand and fight, first by using their 30mm, secondly have seen em use their 100mm gun, and only very occasionally have I seem em use their ATGM's.  Strange.

By comparison, tanks in CMBS act very skittish when being lased - blowing smoke and retreating immediately.  Can't help feeling that IFV's are given too much morale or something if they are more willing to stand and fight than a tank.

And why don't the BMP's use their ATGM's as the first weapon of choice rather than their 30mm??  However, the 30mm is so effective, one wonders why they even need the ATGM's.  (Maybe the CM2 maps are still too small to encourage the use of their ATGM's?)

Why don't you open a new topic and complain about that sort of stuff there instead of derailing this topic?

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I thought that it was relevant to the previous post which I was adding to regarding panicked tank.   :unsure:

And it's not a "complaint".  I simply noted the phenomena and asked questions.  Why the sensitivity to that?

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1 hour ago, Erwin said:

It's noteworthy how fearless the BMP3 IFV's in CMBS are when confronted with a superior AFV like a tank.  They stand and fight, first by using their 30mm, secondly have seen em use their 100mm gun, and only very occasionally have I seem em use their ATGM's.  Strange.

 

It's awful! I've lost 3 or 4 T-64s to brave BMP-3s firing ATGMs, and one of them was to a 30mm cannon on the front arc.  Needless to say, that surprised me.  At any rate, I can attest that they use ATGMs at ranges around 1 km.

3WHREF9.png

Kaboom.  They charge fearlessly, firing ATGMs while driving at high speed.  It's like they're piloted by a crew of Arnold Schwarzeneggers and Sylvester Stallones. B)

Edit: I wish we had more modding control over the explosion graphic and how it scaled - sometimes it gets a little ridiculous (see above!)

Edited by HerrTom

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8 hours ago, Erwin said:

And why don't the BMP's use their ATGM's as the first weapon of choice rather than their 30mm??

If Steel Beasts is to be believed BMP2 in particular can't fire their ATGMs while on the move. Furthermore the crew has to aim the missile by turning handcranks which takes an eternity and in turn means that not only BMP2 has to be stationary - but its target too for a guaranteed hit. Don't know if Combat Mission takes all this into account - but it probably does.

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6 hours ago, kraze said:

<Snip. BMP2 in particular can't fire their ATGMs while on the move. Furthermore the crew has to aim the missile by turning handcranks which takes an eternity <Snip> 

Hmmm, that's interesting and might explain a few things ..........................

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Yes, that is interesting.  However, I don't think that the BMP's I was playing with were moving. 

BMP's don't spot well even with the extra crew I leave on board.  I usually move the BMP's QUICK or FAST to a position, they would be stationary for a bit, spot an enemy tank (b4 it spotted them!!), and instead of blowing smoke and reversing, the BMP would immediately fire and continue to fire its 30mm to very good effect - forcing the enemy tank to blow smoke and reverse away!!  That was around 1000m range.

At closer ranges - under 500m, I saw a BMP use its 100mm gun to destroy an enemy (Ukrainian) tank.

So, if CMBS is accurate, BMP's can spot a tank before it spots them, and will not back away but will stand and fight - immediately using its 30mm to degrade or destroy the enemy tank if at longer range around 1000m, or its 100mm gun if at shorter range. 

A tank, however, will immediately smoke and back away if lased. 

So more questions:  Does the BMP not have the equipment to know its being lased?  And if not knowing you are being lased results in a better outcome, (cos the BMP fights back immediately instead of smoking and retreating), what does that mean tactically?

PS:  The above examples are what I experienced in the new CMBS Russian Campaign - playing Elite WeGo.

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If BMP ends up in a better position than the tank - as in spots it first and the tank does not see it - then might as well attack it with all it's got. Now this would work well in real time mode where you can immediately order BMP to pull back if the tank crew has balls of steel and starts turning the turret towards the BMP - but obviously won't end well in WEGO...

Now what will work the best if BMP (or any ATGM vehicle for that matter) got an AI code routine which would force it to use only the ATGM when the tank is too far away for reliable cannon hits and crew sees the turret being turned away. This would make for a great ambush situation without requiring any micro from the player or rebalancing general weapon priorities (which CM clearly uses... as evidenced by Oplot always firing its damn crappy ATGM instead of APFSDS)

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The odd thing is that I have now many times seen a BMP sit for a while, then spot a tank at 1000m+ apparently staring right back at the BMP.  But the BMP spots first and fires first using its 30mm to seriously degrade the tank which backs away.  Question is why does the tank not spot first?

Could the AI routine be for the tank to use "Armor covered arc", and IFV is not classified as "Armor". 

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2 hours ago, Erwin said:

<Snip>  Question is why does the tank not spot first?  <Snip>  

So many different situations.  Don't have enough information to even take a good guess at.    

 

2 hours ago, Erwin said:

<Snip> Could the AI routine be for the tank to use "Armor covered arc", and IFV is not classified as "Armor". 

NO.  IFVs are classified as armor and will be targeted with an Armored Target Arc.   

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On 4/30/2017 at 1:56 AM, HerrTom said:

It's awful! I've lost 3 or 4 T-64s to brave BMP-3s firing ATGMs, and one of them was to a 30mm cannon on the front arc.  Needless to say, that surprised me.  At any rate, I can attest that they use ATGMs at ranges around 1 km.

3WHREF9.png

Kaboom.  They charge fearlessly, firing ATGMs while driving at high speed.  It's like they're piloted by a crew of Arnold Schwarzeneggers and Sylvester Stallones. B)

Edit: I wish we had more modding control over the explosion graphic and how it scaled - sometimes it gets a little ridiculous (see above!)

They must think it is Prokorovka July 1943! Judging by all the smoke columns in the background it could be..... -)

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