warwalker Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 (edited) I've read the manual and all it says is that: Vehicles with laser warning receivers will display hit text warning, rotate toward threat, deploy smoke and back up. You might find it hard to believe in such a short time since release that you can find something but I'm finding this laser warning action a pain esp. when your issuing multiple waypoints. So you issue your move orders and the tanks move out then bang you've got one or two lased which cause those units to do the above (stop pop smoke and back away). To get them to move again you have to reissue orders then bam laser warning sends them backing this way and that. While your adjusting those units maybe one isn't effected and it continues moving until it is way ahead of the others doing the laser shuffle. You end up with this constant micro management of units in order to try and get them moving. Maybe its me but as people play the game I'd be interested to hear the feedback on this? I can understand stopping and popping smoke but even that might get old if your trying to move a formation and giving multiple units multiple move commands? Maybe an command to ignore and report? The game otherwise is another excellent BF game. Still Happy though!!! Edited January 31, 2015 by warwalker 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFF Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 They will only keep moving with the Fast movement command. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 (edited) Initially the Beta testers had been requesting a toggle for laser warning response but when they saw how quickly unprotected vehicles tended to die in the game the calls for a toggle quickly dwindled. A backing up vehicle is inconvenient, a mass of twisted burning wreckage is even MORE inconvenient! Most vehicles I think only get two chances at popped smoke before they're out, then you're on your own after that. Edited January 31, 2015 by MikeyD 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 I referred to it as herding rabbits. It takes some getting used to and the thing to remember is that activity is what is keeping them alive despite your commands. CMBS is a truly deadly unforgiving environment. It has been in testing a long time and I still feel like I have a long upward curve to learn. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echo Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 At what ranges? This is undesirable if I'm at 3500k, and a t72 is lassing my hull down SEP2. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFF Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 All ranges. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwalker Posted January 31, 2015 Author Share Posted January 31, 2015 Thanks for the feedback. I think this one will generate some discussion. Just curious if that is current US Army Doctrine? If it is then one guy with a laser could halt a Bde of heavy armor in its tracks. Just seems a little unrealistic that 60 ton tanks would stop and start backing just because they are being lased? Thanks 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antaress73 Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 at 3500 meters a lucky hit on the gun mantlet by a snivets-2 round could ruin an M1A2's day even if hull down. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Thanks for the feedback. I think this one will generate some discussion. Just curious if that is current US Army Doctrine? If it is then one guy with a laser could halt a Bde of heavy armor in its tracks. Just seems a little unrealistic that 60 ton tanks would stop and start backing just because they are being lased? Thanks You can't just take your average pen laser you freak the cat out with. Modern systems know by frequency etc what is probably lasing them. Distance however is gonna be an issue as I doubt it knows whether the laser is 100m away or a 1000m away. The issue is survival, you have a split second to react or possibly be dead and yes modern systems do function this way. It isn't about army doctrine per se, it is a simple equation, you have at best a few seconds to enact countermeasures. You do not have time to think out what you maybe should do. This game is a big learning curve over ww 2 CM games. Even over CMSF. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 warwalker, The whole point of the LWR is to instantly alert the crew to an imminent threat. The difference between life and death might well be a few seconds, and it's here that man-in-the-loop simply doesn't offer enough reaction time. Broadband obscurant deployment may be brute force, but it doesn't depend on spoofing a missile guidance system, either. And generating seeker break lock vs a tank gun means targeting the other guy's eyeballs and sensors before his lase turns into your blaze, so to speak. This is bad, because antisensor lasers aren't in the game. Evidently, Fast in CMBS functions as a kind of Ignore LWR command, presumably as the AFV races to cover. I'm not sure how much the impact of Fast is on spotting, but today's tanks can fire on the move pretty accurately, so using Fast may not leave the tank in that bad a fix, especially with thermals. sburke, Is reading rabbits easier or more difficult than herding cats? Herding cats when I was just starting out in CMBN was a nightmare. Have since progressed to a night pony. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwalker Posted January 31, 2015 Author Share Posted January 31, 2015 Thanks all that's great information. I guess I was hoping for a little more control over how my pixel troops respond but I completely understand the limitations of the game. Also to clarify, If my units are in hull down fighting positions and they get lased will they also be popping smoke and backing away? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AttorneyAtWar Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Hopefully pnzrldr comes in here and says a few words, I am sure this is right up his alley! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Its not really a game 'limitation', its a specifically designed-in feature. If you're operating in an environment that uses automatic active countermeasures you've got to factor those countermeasures into your tactics. The same goes for Russian Arena active defense system. You don't want your squad of infantry standing 10 meters in front of your vehicle when that thing detonates. You need to plan accordingly. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFF Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Also to clarify, If my units are in hull down fighting positions and they get lased will they also be popping smoke and backing away? Yes, they will move. Stationary, moving (except for Fast) - it doesn't matter. If you're being lased it means something really potent somewhere has you in their crosshairs, so sitting idly by is not a wise thing to do. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Note: if your unit is actively engaging a target, they may continue the engagement even if lazed. But if they don't see the enemy and get lazed, they pop smoke and retreat, which is usually the best course of action. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 MikeyD, Long ago, I was in sales, where I was taught to always, always first present the feature, then explain the benefit to the customer. You've told us what the feature is, but not the benefit. Survival! Your point about factoring in the consequences of having infantry (or even softskins) near an APS munition detonation is well made. Don't know whether a live AFV's armor can now screen against bullets, allowing the infantry stacking we see in war footage and movies, but if it does, things could get altogether too exciting in an RPG from behind type situation. Might wipe out a whole squad, in fact. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnzrldr Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Hopefully pnzrldr comes in here and says a few words, I am sure this is right up his alley! Present. What do you want me to say? You don't want your tanks to back up? Don't get lased! US Army has no relevant doctrine for this yet, as we don't currently have LWRs on our vehicles. Like the APS, the LWR is a postulated add-on that is commercially available and we can reasonably assume would be added to front line US units if we had say six months of warning to spool up prior to actual hostilities. If it was 'come as you are, right *** now!' we would not (currently) have this kit. At current defense budget levels we will likely field an APS sometime in mid 20s and a new tank long after I am dead <sad face!> Though our acquaintances in the IDF do have LWRs (I think I recall) on their systems, their threat is vastly different and so any doctrine they have hashed out against Hez/Ham threats would not apply to an adversary with MBTs and numerous different precision anti-armor threats. In the absence of extensive use at our combat training centers (which would require a very substantial overhaul of our training equipment, as well as the LWRs applied) we must assume that we would be determining tactics/techniques/procedures through combat Darwinism/evolution. If I was on a tank and the LWR so much as twitched, I would take immediate action. While that might not include launching smoke, it would almost certainly include seeking cover. Only difference is that I think running for cover forwards would be more frequent, as the crew is usually oriented that way on the offense, and it would be easier than trying to stop then reverse. However, would be tougher on the TAC AI to get this behavior, so we've got what we've got. My advice is... Low ground is your friend. Just because your Abrams is a rolling deathwagon does not mean you are invulnerable. Move tactically. If you cannot avoid it, consider using indirect-delivered smoke. It doesn't stop thermals, but does a job on lasers. Lack of direct-fire emplaced obscuration is a major gap in US capabilities. One that I am literally hoping to rectify. Use overwatching vehicles. Don't move if you don't have a friend covering you. Keep bounds short enough for mutual support, but don't become overly robotic. Flow like water over the terrain. On the defense, look to array forces in depth, but focused into a defined killing zone (engagement area) with overlapping coverage. Try to not allow the temporary withdrawal of a single platform unhinge your whole plan. Just my $0.02 Enjoy the game. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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