Stagler Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Russian forces land their LSTs straight up the beach or from a few miles off the coast. They have to get much closer to the coast than USMC platforms as the BTR can only operate in certain sea states and their amphibious speed restricts distance and time to reach the land, whereas the AAV7 can operate with a much higher threshold and cover a larger distance from ship to shore much faster - My logic lies in that its harder to hit several small landing craft coming to the beach from a collection of ships further off the coast than four or five Alligators coming to(up) the beach at one time, or appearing at a shorter distance off the coast to empty BTRs for the run to the beach. They would be identified, engaged, and sunk before they could deliver their equipment to the beach. Once at the beach, the mounted infantry would seek to move immediately inland in their vehicles bypassing beach defences and any dug in troops. This is simply done on exercise like we see at VOSTOK exercise every year but not against an actual opponent. Either side would seek to have air superiority over the beach area to facilitate landing. That would be a feat for both naval airforces/russian airforce, but I suspect that the US would hold the advantage here. Russian naval air cover is orientated toward Air-to-Air cover for gaining air superiority over the sea, not for strike unless the platforms are land based. Again, it is an advantage that the Russians have the advantage of having nearby hard standing bases for their aircraft. But they would simply not be able to conduct landings with NATO air cover over their landing areas or the beach overwatched by NATO ground forces. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikalugin Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 The size of the landing ship is fairly irrelevant considering the direction coastal defense weapons go. Thus either you are out of their range (hundreds of km for AShMs), or you have them suppressed. If later is true it doesn't matter if you drive your landing ship directly onto the coast and offload tanks. Well, why does the Crimean grouping then have a multirole plane regiment and a strike aircraft regiment (which includes Su25 series aircraft)? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerdwing Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I dont think Stagler is arguing that in practice the end result and capabilities of a full VMF landing are similar to that of a full USMC one, rather than the USMC has more assets with which to independently conduct those sort of operations without interaction with other armed forces. With that, I fully agree. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTR Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) Slightly more on topic: (I hope this doesn't bother people that I post images without a spoiler or something) Edited January 19, 2015 by BTR 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikalugin Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I think those are regular BMD4s and not BMD4Ms. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTR Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) If you look at the road wheels, the are from BMP-3, which would suggest that the vehicles on the photo are BMD-4M's without add-on armor. BMD-4's have solid thin road wheels alike BMD-3. Edited January 19, 2015 by BTR 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTR Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 More here: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stagler Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I dont think Stagler is arguing that in practice the end result and capabilities of a full VMF landing are similar to that of a full USMC one, rather than the USMC has more assets with which to independently conduct those sort of operations without interaction with other armed forces. With that, I fully agree. Exactly, as I said in my previous post. The VMF are to work in tandem with ground forces in the coastal area by launching flanking attacks by sea and moving into their rear areas. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stagler Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 On topic: I hope Ukrainian VDV will also be added. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreDay Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 As far as i know they went from it in the midle of 90s. At current moment RPKs are not used in armed forces in any significent numbers. You are correct when talking about Russian ground forces and VDV; but Russian Naval Infantry still deploys RPKs as squad level MGs for some strange reason...It makes absolutely no sense to me, but it is what it is... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreDay Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 On topic: I hope Ukrainian VDV will also be added. I personally would not mind that either, but the only real VDV formation in Ukraine is/was 25th Airborne brigade that has been severly decemated in combat over the course of this summer. I have not heard too much of them lately, but I would be surprised if there are enough functional BMDs in Ukraine to refit them to the necessary standards... chances are - they would just become another "airmobile" brigade from now on. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 BTR, Wonderful pics. Totally dig their cammies. Does Steve have a set yet? I thought at first they were wearing camouflaged helmets, but have now decided they're using the same classic tanker helmet, but with a camo cover on top. Play "Beast of Burden" for the guys doing the ammo schlep. Speaking of ammo, who knew there was another place--a big one-- through which to directly access the fighting compartment? Strong argument for using combat lock on the hatch. I like the BMD-4 doing a wheelie, though technically I suppose I should call it a trackie?! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikalugin Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I think that could be hand waved, after all vanilla scenario assumes that Ukraine receives extensive aid after defeating separatists in 2014 and rebuilds it's armed forces by 2017. On a side note - I think that in reality en mass direct Russian intervention could occur during the spring-summer campaign of 2015, where the CTO Forces would most likely attempt to challenge the status quo and crash the separatists for good. It is also not unfeasible that they would do something dumb, on the lines of Georgian Armed Forces attacking Russian peace keepers in South Osetia (thus commiting an act of aggression against Russia and justifying the pacification that occured). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreDay Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 BTR, I thought at first they were wearing camouflaged helmets, but have now decided they're using the same classic tanker helmet, but with a camo cover on top. Those cammo covers are actually kevlar pieces that offer balistic protection... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTR Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 BTR, Wonderful pics. Totally dig their cammies. Does Steve have a set yet? I thought at first they were wearing camouflaged helmets, but have now decided they're using the same classic tanker helmet, but with a camo cover on top. Play "Beast of Burden" for the guys doing the ammo schlep. Speaking of ammo, who knew there was another place--a big one-- through which to directly access the fighting compartment? Strong argument for using combat lock on the hatch. I like the BMD-4 doing a wheelie, though technically I suppose I should call it a trackie?! I believe he has, and those suits are in CMBS already . Those helmets add a piece of kevlar over the regular crew helmet, which is a nice thing since it doesn't add too much weight and keeps the helmet soft. As you can see in the picture below, it's quite thick. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikalugin Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I think there was a proposal to buy all new soft helmets though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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