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Why are there no guille suited scout snipers?


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AFV is Armored fighting vehicle. Op should be Observation post and ACR *might* be Armored Cavalry regiment. NOt shure on the last one.

 

The technique you are describing is what scouting in CM is. I normally moe in a team of two first to check for ambushes and move in force against expected enemy positions.

yea but without infantary support to spot the large tanks, it's then on the advantage of the defender, because humvees and tanks are big, so the guy defending will always spot first and shoot first, do he always has the advantage.
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AFV is indeed Armored Fighting Vehicle.  It's a handy way to refer to something shooty that might or might not be a tank.  OP is again, Observation Post.  ACR, as Jargotn said, is Armored Cavalry Regiment.

 

So here's my deal/some background.  I served for a while in a US Army Armored Recon type organization (the 5 HMMWV/3 Bradley platoon style one), and am a graduate of the US Army's Cavalry Leader's Course (not to be confused with the Army Recon Course which I thankfully got to skip over. I wasn't in the Cav by choice having been redirected from a tank company at the last minute).

 

The Army after 1945, and then again in 1950 assessed the effectiveness of dismounted or light scouts in terms of conducting recon.  It found they were actually pretty bad.  Only when the scout was moving at a very, very, slow pace in favorable terrain did the dismounted scout successfully locate the enemy without being spotted and engaged.  The simple reality is someone moving at walking pace is still very obvious, camouflage or not, and as I pointed out, it might take the better part of a day to cover only a few thousand meters stealthily.   

 

Which is cool, because hey! We'll just sneak scouts up on the enemy and it'll be cool right?

 

Wrong.  Think of it this way.  How fast can tanks move?  Certainly faster than 5 KM in 12 or so hours.  Armored or even motorized formations lose a lot of what makes them effective if they cannot move fast, and dismounted sniper style recon is not fast at all.

 

The more common way of conducting recon in support of mounted forces is using armored vehicles.  The idea is the vehicle can move fast enough to cover enough terrain to allow armored formations to advance at a reasonable rate, while being tough enough to take the first few hits from the enemy, and when possible kill the hell out of the enemy recon it encounters.  This accepts a lot of risk, but basically you have this advanced element of AFVs that make first contact with the enemy, and "fix" or hold the enemy in place, while the follow on heavy forces maneuver to destroy the enemy. This allows the attacking force to maintain the aggressive tempo that is essential to armored operations.

 

Further in terms of spotting the optics mounted on a tank are many times more powerful than anything a dismounted soldier may carry.  Infantry is good at keeping enemy infantry from getting too close to the tank to get in flank shots with RPGs, but the tank is much better at finding far targets.

 

The use of dismounted scouts isn't *wrong* but to use the Combat Mission sort of scenario, dropping scouts or infantry short of a possible ambush site, but within line of sight to friendly tanks is always a good idea, because the infantry forces the enemy that might be hiding in the ambush area to fight...but with the tank or IFV support, it means the infantry is more likely to win in that fight.  Once the ambush location has been cleared (by killing the enemy or confirming it is clear), the infantry remounts and then the armor/mech forces continue the advance.

 

But again, this is guys moving aggressively and tactically.  If the enemy is there, he'll know we're coming, we're basically just throwing enough firepower at him that it'll be a bit of a onesided fight in our favor.  As far as sneaking up to every possible ambush location, aint no body got time for that.

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So here's my deal/some background. I served for a while in a US Army Armored Recon type organization (the 5 HMMWV/3 Bradley platoon style one), and am a graduate of the US Army's Cavalry Leader's Course (not to be confused with the Army Recon Course which I thankfully got to skip over. I wasn't in the Cav by choice having been redirected from a tank company at the last minute).

Let me tell you my qualifications: I'm a chubby bum in a dark room wasting his life away on video games.

The Army after 1945, and then again in 1950 assessed the effectiveness of dismounted or light scouts in terms of conducting recon. It found they were actually pretty bad. Only when the scout was moving at a very, very, slow pace in favorable terrain did the dismounted scout successfully locate the enemy without being spotted and engaged. The simple reality is someone moving at walking pace is still very obvious, camouflage or not, and as I pointed out, it might take the better part of a day to cover only a few thousand meters stealthily.

that's probably true if I think about it. Especially if I had 8x zoom binoculars. And if this was real combat, yea that would be retarded. But this is combat mission where I deploy my units in a box, and maybe 1/10th of the box is forested space where I can crawl to, it works in the game. Yea that's basically it, I am not in a real war, and I don't want to be in one. But this game doesn't work like real life, it's got limitations. So it's a game, and you gotta understand how it works to use it and beat the guy against you

Wrong. Think of it this way. How fast can tanks move? Certainly faster than 5 KM in 12 or so hours. Armored or even motorized formations lose a lot of what makes them effective if they cannot move fast, and dismounted sniper style recon is not fast at all.

yea that's true, but in combat mission rushing up your apc's is a death trap from either a still tank or a hidden javalin. By the way, I love the javalin, it's useful as hell.

Further in terms of spotting the optics mounted on a tank are many times more powerful than anything a dismounted soldier may carry. Infantry is good at keeping enemy infantry from getting too close to the tank to get in flank shots with RPGs, but the tank is much better at finding far targets.

yea that's because the tank has gyroscopes and the zoom camera is incredibly stable, and it has all sorts of fancy optical gear to contrast and whatever, but in combat mission, I think the spotting ability of a soldier is a little worse than a optical humvee, but because people are smaller, they are harder to see, which make them the better scouts, in combat mission. And only in combat mission.

The use of dismounted scouts isn't *wrong* but to use the Combat Mission sort of scenario, dropping scouts or infantry short of a possible ambush site, but within line of sight to friendly tanks is always a good idea, because the infantry forces the enemy that might be hiding in the ambush area to fight...but with the tank or IFV support, it means the infantry is more likely to win in that fight. Once the ambush location has been cleared (by killing the enemy or confirming it is clear), the infantry remounts and then the armor/mech forces continue the advance.

i don't get it. Have the scouts near the tank, that's what you're saying right?

BUt again, this is guys moving aggressively and tactically. If the enemy is there, he'll know we're coming, we're basically just throwing enough firepower at him that it'll be a bit of a onesided fight in our favor. As far as sneaking up to every possible ambush location, aint no body got time for that.

yea but this is combat mission, where its not so one sided, and we some time to do that, since we are playing in a box. Edited by stealthsilent1
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yea that's true, but in combat mission rushing up your apc's is a death trap from either a still tank or a hidden javalin. By the way, I love the javalin, it's useful as hell.

 

But notice what you're saying - you complain that your scout isn't going to be hidden enough, but you assume that the enemy's Javelin will be !

 

No, his Javelin team will have the same problem that your "scout" has.

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Ideally a sniper/scout of this sort goes someplace the enemy *isn't* then sits and waits for the enemy to arrive. In that case he's just another clump of grass in the treeline. Of course if you guess wrong he'll be overlooking a vacant stretch of highway for a week. In CM a moving man is not only easily spotted, his own observation abilities drop as he's moving. In CMBN you can 'move to contact' with more assurance because your guy is more likely to survive first contact. In CMBS they're not exactly firing bolt action rifles at you so you're likely to be cut down on first contact.

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Ok so you have your scouts infront followed by the assault followed by the supporting elements like heavy machine guns, which fix the enemy, at least the ones that you can see. And you move slowly up so that even if you lose men, it's only going to be 2 at a time, per hidden ambush unit.

Also, how do you post an image?

To the forum?

 

Everything you need to know compliments of Segei.

 

http://community.battlefront.com/topic/96193-how-to-take-a-screenshot-edit-it-and-post-it/

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Also, quotes take a hell of a lot of time to do, they are hard.

I find if I want to do something like what you did above, I copy everything into note pad showing formatted text.  Far far easier to work with.  Then once you have it how you want just paste it all in a reply.  Same way I do an AAR.  I do all the pic links and text in note pad and then paste it into the forum. Much easier.

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For getting it, rations. Whe it comes to eating, I'd imagine just like you and me.

Getting rid of the, to put it delicately, waste product is a less enticing problem though.

 

For ordinary troops manning an OP, the standard means of getting rid of it was in empty ration or ammo boxes which are then flung in the direction of the enemy.

 

As far as eating and drinking are concerned, I don't imagine that snipers in position do much of either as it might entail movement that could give them away.

 

Michael

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what is AFV and ACR and OP?

 

*sigh*

 

You need to start practicing your ABCs.

 

AFV=Armored Fighting Vehicle.

ACR=Armored Cavalry Regiment

OP=Observation Post

 

There are lots of new acronyms and abbreviations being tossed around in these threads, but those three have been around almost since Moses walked the earth.

 

:D

 

Michael

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*sigh*

 

You need to start practicing your ABCs.

 

AFV=Armored Fighting Vehicle.

ACR=Armored Cavalry Regiment

OP=Observation Post

 

There are lots of new acronyms and abbreviations being tossed around in these threads, but those three have been around almost since Moses walked the earth.

 

:D

 

Michael

 

Man I wish when I went to kindergarten and elementary school that's how we learned our ABC's...

 

:D

Edited by Raptorx7
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*sigh*

 

You need to start practicing your ABCs.

 

AFV=Armored Fighting Vehicle.

ACR=Armored Cavalry Regiment

OP=Observation Post

 

There are lots of new acronyms and abbreviations being tossed around in these threads, but those three have been around almost since Moses walked the earth.

 

:D

 

Michael

 

To be fair, Moses probably only had to remember CC - Chariot Corps :)

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