Why are there no guille suited scout snipers?

[stealthsilent1]

1, the guille suit blocks infra red a bit

2, they are extremely useful for in the bush scouting.

3 why not

[AttorneyAtWar]

A high intensity conflict of maneuver in Ukraine involving two of the most advanced militaries armored formations from Russia, Ukraine and the U.S. isn't really a place for a "guillied up" sniper to sit for a week and take shots at targets.

Edited January 7, 2015 by Raptorx7

[stealthsilent1]

A high intensity conflict of manuever in Ukraine involving two of the most advanced militaries armored formations from Russia, Ukraine and the U.S. isn't really a place for a "guillied up" sniper to sit for a week and take shots at targets.

no taking shots, just a guy who looks like a bush, and is hard to detect with infra red. Use those guys, crawl them up to the Forrest, and just stay there for the whole game, unless someone flanks me. Also, how do normal snipers eat and drink? Where do they get the food and water?

[MarkEzra]

Not worth the time to create an entirely new human shape is more likely the reason. Time is generally the reason something I want in the game isn't.

[Jargotn]

I'd say it's out of scope.

 

A sniper is an extremely valuable asset. Just like special forces you don't want him on the frontline where he could die to a stray bullet. Snipers -those in ghillie suits you are talking about- normally don't just link up with an advancing infantry platoon. That would waste their potential.

[sburke]

He is in there, he is just so well camouflaged the game can't find him.

[stealthsilent1]

He is in there, he is just so well camouflaged the game can't find him.

totally. But seriously, I need a bush unit. Scouting without wasting units in a 270 degree area is almost completely shot because of the infra red scopes. A scout only troops with a guille suit would be good.

[sburke]

Lol yeah had to throw that out there, but I agree with the others. This is a frontline combat game, even the time frame isn't right for those guys. I am not sure they would even move in a 4 hour period. They definitely aren't gonna flit around the battlefield like a CM player is gonna do.

And don't write off your units yet. Wait till you actually have the game before you decide what you can and can't do. The AAR is only telling you so much. I am testing one where most of your objective is to get eyes on locations and call in other assets. It is definitely possible. Keep in mind though what CM is and isn't. You give your orders and hopefully the guys will follow your intent, but you can't get so granular as to expect them to cut some branches and hide behind them like Arte Johnson.

Edited January 7, 2015 by sburke

[Martin S]

Also, how do normal snipers eat and drink? Where do they get the food and water?

For getting it, rations. Whe it comes to eating, I'd imagine just like you and me.

Getting rid of the, to put it delicately, waste product is a less enticing problem though.

[Kieme(ITA)]

Not sure what it would require from an editing point of view, I am no programmer nor expert.

 

All I can imagine is an actual soldier model with something like 2d textures added everywhere, like a doodad, to simulate the false foliage.

 

I'd like to see that just for the aesthetics, but it's no big deal.

Edited January 7, 2015 by Kieme(ITA)

[MikeyD]

There's camouflage and camouflage. The last thing someone on the front line wants to do is stand out from the crowd. The same goes for officers. Aren't there rules against saluting a superior on the front line? Special clothing and special weapons make a person a target for another sniper. You get out of a Humvee dressed as bigfoot and you make yourself the preferred target for whoever may be viewing the scene from a distance. There's also the small problem of an infantryman spotting you moving around ahead of him and not recognizing you as a 'friendly'. So guile suits would be applicable in places where friendly infantry aren't shooting at shadows. 

Edited January 7, 2015 by MikeyD

[panzersaurkrautwerfer]

In practice from my experience at least, in the US Army CAB style Battalions, the Snipers usually simply became additional dismounted scouts for the Scout Platoon. While they still retain the ability to snipe, the actual utility of a sniper rifle in a high intensity sabots flying, tanks dying kind of fight is usually not worth the effort invested in employing it.  Also the high mobility aspect of mechanized warfare usually precludes the covert employment of snipers.

[stealthsilent1]

There's camouflage and camouflage. The last thing someone on the front line wants to do is stand out from the crowd. The same goes for officers. Aren't there rules against saluting a superior on the front line? Special clothing and special weapons make a person a target for another sniper. You get out of a Humvee dressed as bigfoot and you make yourself the preferred target for whoever may be viewing the scene from a distance. There's also the small problem of an infantryman spotting you moving around ahead of him and not recognizing you as a 'friendly'. So guile suits would be applicable in places where friendly infantry aren't shooting at shadows. 

yea but that's my point, put them where there are no other troops. But yea, I mean, they wouldn't be useful walking. I'm not sure, but I'd just crawl them through the forest

  

In practice from my experience at least, in the US Army CAB style Battalions, the Snipers usually simply became additional dismounted scouts for the Scout Platoon. While they still retain the ability to snipe, the actual utility of a sniper rifle in a high intensity sabots flying, tanks dying kind of fight is usually not worth the effort invested in employing it.  Also the high mobility aspect of mechanized warfare usually precludes the covert employment of snipers.

youre probably right.

[womble]

yea but that's my point, put them where there are no other troops.

i.e. off the CM battlefield.

Good solution.

[stealthsilent1]

i.e. off the CM battlefield.Good solution.

yea but then how are you going to scout?

[sburke]

yea but then how are you going to scout?

That young man is what you are going to have to learn. :-)

Seriously Intel is a huge part of the game, scouts only reflect one way of doing that. Maybe we can convince Bil to do a review of that for CMBS on his lessons site. It would be really useful for new players and folks like me who still struggle with it.

[ChrisND]

With the limited resources we have (people will get sick of me saying this, but it's the reality we face every day and it isn't going away), new soldier models and gear are a lot of effort for us. For base game it would not have been a smart use of resources to make another new unique soldier model is used only by a tiny fraction of the troops, and even then only used very situationally.

[MikeyD]

One supposes the guy in the guile suit isn't on the front line but perhaps 50+ miles beyond the front line watching bridge traffic coming from Russia.

[Baneman]

"Guile suit".   I like that.

 

"You don't want to haggle with him when he's in his guile suit."

[domfluff]

Well, I was thinking more like this:

[panzersaurkrautwerfer]

Har.

 

The other thing to bear in mind is the glacial pace of an infiltrating scout.  Stealth is cool, it just means it takes 12 hours to travel 5 KM and set up an OP.  The sort of BS level game is much more focused on AFV based sensors or the classic ACR style punching until you hit someone style recon.

[stealthsilent1]

With the limited resources we have (people will get sick of me saying this, but it's the reality we face every day and it isn't going away), new soldier models and gear are a lot of effort for us. For base game it would not have been a smart use of resources to make another new unique soldier model is used only by a tiny fraction of the troops, and even then only used very situationally.

no, forget about the model and everything we are talking about, I'm just brainstorming ideas. It's just for fun, and then you review what is possible or what isn't and then you make the decisions, not me and everyone else. By you I mean the team.

[stealthsilent1]

Har.

 

The other thing to bear in mind is the glacial pace of an infiltrating scout.  Stealth is cool, it just means it takes 12 hours to travel 5 KM and set up an OP.  The sort of BS level game is much more focused on AFV based sensors or the classic ACR style punching until you hit someone style recon.

what is AFV and ACR and OP? And in combat mission it doesn't need to take 12 hours, just drive up behind a forest, walk or quick halfway into the forest, then crawl up into position. I'm just saying since infra red is a powerful tool( I don't know how powerful yet, is it able to detect someone at 2km or is it a 500m thing? But I'm assuming, that it's a, 2km spotting tool. Maybe I'm wrong, but if I'm right, scouting is going to be a lot harder than before.

And I think I read bill's guide, but I forgot what he said about scouting, maybe not much. But I thought up of a "better" scouting technique. Maybe it's the same thing as bill's guide, but who cares, I had a good idea and I'm going to say it. Well it's slow, and you can get flanked, but you will not be ambushed. Just always put 2 man scouts ahead of your men, first when you are moving normally, but also when you are suppressing and flanking the enemy with your maneuver section, because while that maneuver section is moving up, it can get ambushed by another hidden enemy. So you would have a line of scouts in front of a line of assaulting elements, who are infront of a line of supporting elements, who are infront of the reserves, or non combatants, or whatever. And the line keeps moving up, as the assault squad leapfrogs with the support squad, until you are close enough to rush your troops in with grenades. Maybe I could post a picture

[stealthsilent1]

Ok so you have your scouts infront followed by the assault followed by the supporting elements like heavy machine guns, which fix the enemy, at least the ones that you can see. And you move slowly up so that even if you lose men, it's only going to be 2 at a time, per hidden ambush unit.

Also, how do you post an image?

Edited January 8, 2015 by stealthsilent1

[Jargotn]

AFV is Armored fighting vehicle. Op should be Observation post and ACR *might* be Armored Cavalry regiment. NOt shure on the last one.

 

The technique you are describing is what scouting in CM is. I normally moe in a team of two first to check for ambushes and move in force against expected enemy positions.