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stealthsilent1

What is the point of an unmounted hmg on the modern battlefield?

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Speaking purely theoretically, a tripod-mounted HMG (.50cal or equivalent) is easier to dig in than one on the back of a vehicle, so there's a place for them in bases, temporary or permanent.

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So you can dismount your HMG from your vehicle then go and place it dug in in a house or nearby hasty fortification. Its easier to hide this way than hiding your HMMWV.

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So you can dismount your HMG from your vehicle then go and place it dug in in a house or nearby hasty fortification. Its easier to hide this way than hiding your HMMWV.

ok so good for defense and good for support within vehicle range, because it weights 125 pounds

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When you construct a fortified area that you plan to occupy for a an extended period, fixed HMGs are very useful.  I'm not sure what you are speaking on though, weapons squads in infantry platoons aren't assigned and don't carry 12.7mm MGs.  I carried  AGS-17 around the mountains for a time.  I am not interested in doing that again.

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Yea but why HMG when MMG will do.

Because .50BMG is longer ranged and harder-hitting. The same reason you put Ma Deuce on vehicles rather than a rifle-calibre MG. Sure, the extra weight is going to be a consideration, but the 125lb is breakable into humpable loads, if you're setting up a Sangar on the ridges to shoot downwards onto Hind flying along the valleys in the mountains of Afghanistan, for example. An emplaced HMG in MOUT will render many apparently safe positions from which to fire on the bunker not nearly as safe as they would have been if an MMG were in it's place.

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Because .50BMG is longer ranged and harder-hitting. The same reason you put Ma Deuce on vehicles rather than a rifle-calibre MG. Sure, the extra weight is going to be a consideration, but the 125lb is breakable into humpable loads, if you're setting up a Sangar on the ridges to shoot downwards onto Hind flying along the valleys in the mountains of Afghanistan, for example. An emplaced HMG in MOUT will render many apparently safe positions from which to fire on the bunker not nearly as safe as they would have been if an MMG were in it's place.

I never thought of it that way, different people moving different parts, I thought they just carried the whole thing. Yea, I mean, it depends on the situation. If there aren't any bunkers I'd just go for something lighter.

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When you construct a fortified area that you plan to occupy for a an extended period, fixed HMGs are very useful.  I'm not sure what you are speaking on though, weapons squads in infantry platoons aren't assigned and don't carry 12.7mm MGs.  I carried  AGS-17 around the mountains for a time.  I am not interested in doing that again.

dude you carried the whole thing? Or did you break it apart and carry it with your buds? I went with 10 pounds in the mountains and my shoulders ached.

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dude you carried the whole thing? Or did you break it apart and carry it with your buds? I went with 10 pounds in the mountains and my shoulders ached.

 

My buds were the gun team I was assigned to.

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dude you carried the whole thing? Or did you break it apart and carry it with your buds? I went with 10 pounds in the mountains and my shoulders ached.

You could just google this stuff. If something is manportable then it will break down into manportable pieces; in the case of AGS the gun itself weighs 18kg, tripod mount 12kg and an ammo belt 15kg. Having lugged a 140kg recoilless rifle in a forest covered with deep snow, AGS-17 would be like a bag of feathers! :rolleyes:

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You could just google this stuff. If something is manportable then it will break down into manportable pieces; in the case of AGS the gun itself weighs 18kg, tripod mount 12kg and an ammo belt 15kg. Having lugged a 140kg recoilless rifle in a forest covered with deep snow, AGS-17 would be like a bag of feathers! :rolleyes:

no way you carried that whole thing. Cm BS!

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no way you carried that whole thing. Cm BS!

 

I'm sure he was only carrying one end of it, but ... you do know he's a Finn, right ? :o

 

You'd better retract any claims of BS before he finds your house with a PMD ( Pine-cone of Mass Destruction ) :lol:

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As folks have already mentioned, when man-carried it is broken down into a smaller load.  In US Infantry Brigades (as in light infantry/airborne) too, it's usually carried by a HMMWV too and dismounted as the mission requires.

 

One of the big advantages the .50 cal offers over a medium machine gun is the range, and the massive hitting power.  I worked with guys who engaged BMPs with..50 cal, and from the frontal arc it resulted in a vehicle kill, but from the flanks the rounds left exit holes, meaning it was able to penetrate the side armor, everything in between, and still had enough energy to punch through the side armor again.  It's a great weapon against light armor/APC type vehicles.

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Just for reference approach march loads routinely exceed 35 kilos, and 40 plus is not uncommon.  You just have to have a reasonable expectation of what a person can do while carrying it.  Unless it a special forces qualification course, then the expectations are intentionally UNREASONABLE.

 

There is whole genre of inside jokes on this forum related to the exceptional performance of the Finns against the Soviets in that viscous little warm up for WW2 they had.  You need to read at least the Wikipedia synopsis for them to make any sense at all.

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no way you carried that whole thing. Cm BS!

I never said I was carrying it ;) the 90mm recoilless rifle in question has a wheeled mount and in winter it is put on a sled for mobility on snow. But it was still a lot of work to get it up a hill, especially when you were already struggling knee deep in snow!

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I thought a Finn knee deep in snow was how you learned to walk as a toddler. What is this knee deep in snow as difficult nonsense? Anyone want to check his IP and verify we have a real Finn here?

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I recall reading somewhere that the current record for sniping range (or at least close to the record) goes to a .50 cal hmg with a high powered sniper scope mounted to it. The .50 cal's commonly stated effective range limitation is more a function of the iron sights than of the ballistics of the gun.

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From Wiki...

 

M2 as a sniper rifle

The M2 machine gun has also been used as a long-range sniper rifle, when equipped with a telescopic sight. Soldiers during the Korean War used scoped M2s in the role of a sniper rifle, but the practice was most notably used by US Marine Corps sniper Carlos Hathcock during the Vietnam War. Using an Unertl telescopic sight and a mounting bracket of his own design, Hathcock could quickly convert the M2 into a sniper rifle, using the traversing-and-elevating (T&E) mechanism attached to the tripod. When firing semi-automatically, Hathcock hit man-size targets beyond 1,800 metres (2,000 yd)—twice the range of a standard-caliber sniper rifle of the time (a .30-06Winchester Model 70). In fact, Hathcock set the record for the longest confirmed kill at 2,250 metres (2,460 yd), a record which stood until 2002, when it was broken in Afghanistan by Canadian Forces sniper Arron Perry.

 

Perry used the 50.Cal McMillan Brothers TAC15 (designated as the C15 Long Range Sniper Weapon by the Canadian Forces),

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Having lugged a 140kg recoilless rifle in a forest covered with deep snow...

 

What??? That can't be right, can it? That's 308 lbs. How many men could even lift that, much less walk a step or two with it.

 

:o

 

Michael

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It's a great weapon against light armor/APC type vehicles.

 

Which is not entirely surprising since—if I understand correctly—the round was originally developed in WW I as an anti-armor round.

 

Michael

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The dismounted .50 cal MG is not normally assigned to US formations in Black Sea. However, the humvees belonging to Assault platoons in the Infantry battalions can dismount their .50cals and Mk.19s if desired. One good example is to be able to lug the weapon into a building... kinda hard to squeeze a Humvee in there!

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