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ChrisND

Black Sea manual: get it here while it's hot!

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Thanks for the additional info Chris. Is it possible to get a short answer for question 1 and 8? But if you are busy with other things, it's not that important :) 

 

 

1. Is there a difference between the spotting capabilities, concerning the different UAV models? 

 

8. Manual: "[...] capability to interface with and control UAVs such as RQ-7B Shadow or MQ-1C Gray Eagles [...] With this system the UAV and attack helicopter can act as a pair, with the UAV searching for targets for the Apache to attack. Even if the flight crew does not directly control the UAV, they can receive imagery from its camera payload and use its laser designator to mark targets for the Apache's weaponry." (p. 95)

 
How does it work ingame? 
Area X, RQ-7B Shadow
Area observation mission
tank spotted
 
Now I want to attack it with my AH-64, using the RQ-7B Shadow laser designator, to keep the helicopter out of harm's way. How can I do it?

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Not sure if it is an issue with the manual or the game info, but the encyclopedia entry for the T-72B3 (both regular and APS version) seems to show the picture for T-64BV (though it has a green background apparently used for Russian vehicles), while the T-64BV entry has the picture for T-64BM (all of which leads me to wonder if other info in the panels, like armor values, has not been mixed up also).

Additionally, can you please specify, at least in a couple of words, exactly which SACLOS ATGM systems "Shtora" and "Varta" dazzlers would be effective against (I am especially curious if they would affect the TOW-2)?

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I'm not sure but Shtora might be somewhat effective against TOW. Though the latest TOW has been hardened against countermeasures. But remember Ukraine is firing AT-4C, AT-5. AT-7, Corsar, Skif... Basically any aiming system that automatically tracks a missile tail flare for course correction is probably vulnerable to Shotra

 

Oh, and I looked at the manual, the T64 pictabove the T72B3 test is actually referencing the paragraph above it, not below it. Blame automatic text flow.  :)

Edited by MikeyD

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Well, I have an idea of what it can do in real life, but no idea of how exactly it was modeled in the game (BTW, "Skif" and "Corsar" have laser beam-riding guidance and should not be subject to dazzlers), which is why I am asking. :)

The pictures I am referring to are the ones immediately following corresponding articles. Specifically, the two pictures on the page 99 (in the T-72B3 article) are clearly those of T-64BV (small rolling wheels, angled rear turret container, only HMG and TC's IR searchlight visible above turret profile), not T-72B3 (larger rolling wheels, straight rear turret container, wind sensor (mast above number 5 in the picture) and part of "Sosna-U" sight (the box behind and above smoke launchers in the picture) visible above turret profile). The picture on page 97, in the T-64BV article, is the one of T-64BM "Bulat" (modified ERA array on the turret front with long rubber screens clearly visible), identical to the one in "Bulat's" article on page 98.

 

All of that might seem like nitpicking, but, again, I wonder if the other information provided in those pictures is correct or mixed up too (ammunition and systems seem correct, but I am not sure about the armor values). Besides, if that are actual pictures from the game, then controlling one tank and seeing its stats illustrated with the picture of the other might produce an irksome cognitive dissonance. :D

Edited by Krasnoarmeyets

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1. Is there a difference between the spotting capabilities, concerning the different UAV models? 

 

Yes.

 

8. Manual: "[...] capability to interface with and control UAVs such as RQ-7B Shadow or MQ-1C Gray Eagles [...] With this system the UAV and attack helicopter can act as a pair, with the UAV searching for targets for the Apache to attack. Even if the flight crew does not directly control the UAV, they can receive imagery from its camera payload and use its laser designator to mark targets for the Apache's weaponry." (p. 95)

 
How does it work ingame? 
Area X, RQ-7B Shadow
Area observation mission
tank spotted
 
Now I want to attack it with my AH-64, using the RQ-7B Shadow laser designator, to keep the helicopter out of harm's way. How can I do it?

 

We don't currently simulate the ability for helicopters to make attacks from a safe position. If they attack a target, they will be exposed to AA fire. Helicopters can search for targets on their own when given an Area target mission, but if you send the UAV in first, it can find and spot targets. Then when you send the helicopter in it will have an easier time finding targets to engage, or you can even order Point target missions for the helicopter to specifically attack enemy targets that the UAV has spotted.

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Shtora is not very helpful against the newest versions of the TOW-2B, which is what is used in Black Sea. Against older AT systems like AT-4, AT-5, AT-7, etc, it is very helpful. Bottom line, don't count on it to be of much help against the Americans, but against Ukrainian forces it will come in very handy.

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I also want to express my thanks for the manual. I seldom respond on these forums but I read and enjoy them a lot, especially the AARs. The manual will whet my appetite while I await the game's release  :D

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Really helpful manual!

In the formations encyclopedia, under the us engineer battalion i found "we hope to expand on engineers equipment on a future release"

That looks interesting, can we have any more secifications?

Edited by franci

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Tried searching the manual without joy in finding out if UAV drones in game have bad weather i.e. high winds, smoke, rainstorms or heavy weather etc. restrictions to their deployment / or if able to get airborne suffer from sensor degredation.

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Tried searching the manual without joy in finding out if UAV drones in game have bad weather i.e. high winds, smoke, rainstorms or heavy weather etc. restrictions to their deployment / or if able to get airborne suffer from sensor degredation.

 

Fog and other types of vision-limiting weather will degrade their spotting ability. In fact I just tested a Raven's ability to spot T-72s in dense fog and it couldn't see them at all.

 

AFAIK wind effects on UAVs are not modeled. I assume smoke will affect where appropriate but I have not tested it. Note that all US and one Russian UAVs have infrared imagers and should therefore only be affected by multispectral smoke.

Edited by Vanir Ausf B

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Raven doesnt have thermal imager does it?

 

I imagine grey eagle does though, would probably be better at spotting in fog.

 

Technically thermal optics shouldnt work in transition periods (dawn and dusk) anywhere near as effective as they work in daytime/nighttime - so the time of the mission might have effected it.

Edited by Stagler

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What is the difference?

Infared Night Vision works by using a infared flash/spotlight, lighting up an area in infared light and then using a special scope to be able to see everything it lights up. This is a really outdated method and has been used since Late-WW2 by the germans. Basically GEN 0 Night vision, but a system that a lot of older cold war era vehicles use.

 

Thermal Infared is a scope that actually picks up the difference of temperatures between things, and renders an image in accordance, without actually projecting anything(AFAIK). This is what FLIR is.

Edited by Vherid

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I've always referred to those as passive IR and active IR. They are both very good for seeing in darkness.

Semantics aside, the manufacture's website for the Raven states it features "infrared imagery". This is almost certainly of the passive/thermal variety for the reasons you mention, so the manual is either right or wrong depending on how you want to parse it, but the bottom line is that the Raven should be able to see through normal smoke.

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I've always referred to those as passive IR and active IR. They are both very good for seeing in darkness.

Semantics aside, the manufacture's website for the Raven states it features "infrared imagery". This is almost certainly of the passive/thermal variety for the reasons you mention, so the manual is either right or wrong depending on how you want to parse it, but the bottom line is that the Raven should be able to see through normal smoke.

 

Fair one, maybe the manual is wrong because the Raven has been misrepresented ingame?

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I've always referred to those as passive IR and active IR. They are both very good for seeing in darkness.

Semantics aside, the manufacture's website for the Raven states it features "infrared imagery". This is almost certainly of the passive/thermal variety for the reasons you mention, so the manual is either right or wrong depending on how you want to parse it, but the bottom line is that the Raven should be able to see through normal smoke.

 

Fair one, maybe the manual is wrong because the Raven has been misrepresented ingame?

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Okay, nevermind. Original Raven had passive night vision but RQ-11B seems to have received an upgrade with a thermal camera. However, it must be a tiny thermal camera, surely not effective at much more than a few hundred meters.

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Is this the latest version, because the scenario editor guide says i can refer to the manual for building commands, however this manual includes nothing on commands or how to use the editor?

 

Edited by xXmushmanXx

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On 31/08/2016 at 3:56 PM, xXmushmanXx said:

Is this the latest version, because the scenario editor guide says i can refer to the manual for building commands, however this manual includes nothing on commands or how to use the editor?

 

There are two manuals. Other than the game manual there is the engine manual. The latter should be included in every game download I believe.

The info regarding the scenario editor - among other matters - can be found in there, which is where I pasted the info you enquired from.

 

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