sell on Steam?

[John Kettler]

m0317624 (and likeminded),

 

I barely know what Steam is, have never used it and have no dog in this hunt. That said, though you're coming off badly (and are drawing heavy fire inconsequence), I believe you really are coming from a god place; that your intention is to help. Unfortunately for you, the examples you offer as "proof" aren't necessarily broadly applicable. If any firm falls under that rubric, it's BFC. Recall, not only did BFC conceive and develop, on a very slender shoestring, a revolutionary wargame, CMx1's CMBO, but it simultaneously pioneered a revolutionary way of marketing that game. BFC has thrived where many others wargame firms have foundered and sunk, or have simply vanished. It survived an imploding economy. It survived a painful and expensive outing in brick and mortar land, and it came back determined never to go there again. There was also, I believe, a fiasco in which CMSF (?) was rushed to release because of contractual obligations. BFC absolutely doesn't and won't do that anymore. Steve has repeatedly made it clear that BFC, unlike EA some years ago which, despite its vast resources (millions) was nearly destroyed by one bad decision (all eggs in one basket dropped; bad for eggs), yet survived, simply can't afford to be wrong.

 

We can have opinions and argue them until the end of Time, but BFC must ever weigh the risks against the gains, and we, too, must hope Steve et al. continue to make wise business decisions. Saying, in essence, "BFC is like a dinosaur which won't adapt and dooms itself to extinction" seems, to me, to be a huge overstretch. I guarantee you that some very sharp and highly motivated (like to eat, have a place to live, etc.) people keep a gimlet eye on everything pertinent in their industry. BFC has learned the hard way that giving up control is likely a business killer. And what if BFC did go with Steam, but then there's some upheaval which fundamentally alters, disrupts or even destroys Steam? What then? How bright would that business decision have been--as seen from bankruptcy court?! As it stands, BFC creates the product, BFC handles and ships the product, so BFC isn't losing a huge chunk of revenue to layers of middlemen, nor do its products suffer the ignominy of the $5 clearance bin. In fact, CMBO is still for sale at a very respectable $15--for a game released in 2000! There are still people playing it--and new ones discovering the game and buying it.

 

BFC isn't a PC but a Mac (smaller production, but high quality and higher profit margin); it isn't GM but Rolls Royce; it's not Wonder Bread but artisanal bread, to give but a few examples. I can't speak to the useful gaming life of what's on Steam, but I will say that the overwhelming feedback from our members who play many games and of various sorts is that nothing touches CM when it comes to entertainment value and duration per dollar spent. And BFC gives away the demos so people don't have to make the outlays you find so objectionable blind; so they can determine, for themselves, whether this game is for them. Why is it that people don't bat an eye for a $70 FPS which has a play through time of, say, 14 hours, but gag over spending $105.00 (discounted from $135.00 if purchased separately) for the complete CMBN (v 3.12), including CW and MG, yet can play the latter pretty much forever? Which, I ask, is the more cost effective outlay? Nor is it safe to assert that because CM isn't on Steam, that no one knows about it, therefore can't possibly buy the game. In addition to game mags and game sites, which run game reviews and interviews with Steve about every pending CM release, there's this thing called YouTube and some other means called Twitch. ChrisND has done a great deal to raise CM's profile, and people searching for WW II computer games will find goodies like these served up. And ChrisND isn't the only one.

 

1716 views--for a game still in Beta!

 

5250 views

 

4956 views

 

7234 views

 

 

Nor does it follow that these are the same gamers watching these diverse games. Quite the opposite. Gamers very definitely have preferences, some quite emphatic. And for every person who sees one of these vids, how many additional positive marketing events result when someone shares what was seen? Word of mouth advertising is incredibly powerful, and social media have only made it more so. And what you need to realize is that because of its business model, BFC doesn't need massive sales in order to prosper. Would they be nice to have? Sure, but BFC is niche marketing, rather than trying to sell everyone MoH, Halo, GoW or the latest MMORPG for that matter. BFC's business model works for BFC and, by extension, us. BFC has no suicidal impulse at work here in avoiding Steam, and if it needs to change how it does what it does, it will do so and for good, solid reasons based on an intimate understanding of BFC.

On a whimsical note, what's next? A debate on who played Hammurabi via Time Shared acoustic modem first?!

 

Regards,

 

John Kettler

Edited January 5, 2015 by John Kettler

[MikeyD]

My (personal) thoughts on the topic. It appears whenever BFC has teamed up with a third party for CM titles the third party's commitment to maintaining the product has not quite matched BFC's own. If they're lucky they can get a year or year and a half out of 'em before they move on to greener pastures. BFC's association with Steam might be to their advantage initially, but what happens when CMRT (for example) get's classified as 'last year's game' or worse 'year-before-last's game'? Taking 30%(?) off the top of a best seller is bearable because there's plenty of money to go around. Taking 30% off the top of a long shelf life slow seller sounds like you've sold your soul to a loan shark.

[Macisle]

I very much agree with the last two posts.

 

Steam is today's hot thing for mainstream gamers, but tomorrow? Who knows.

 

BF's purchasing audience is super-niche and can be targeted through other means like YouTube.

 

The key is for them to maintain control of their product and revenue stream while mining the 100% positive marketing vehicles like YouTube that are out there and ever-evolving.

 

My CMRT video has been up for less than a month and has had 1650 viewers. I made sure to put in good tags and plaster BF's URL in visible places.

 

Every month that goes by, there is more and more content online related to CM. That means that people who are actually going to buy and play CM are more and more likely going to hear about it.

 

Why give up part of your profit and control to something when you don't really need to, as MikeyD just pointed out?

 

Of course, the Carny is always going to look for the psychological buttons to push to make the Mark buy a ticket and throw balls. Just like the investment advisor is always going to push inventments. As long as they get their cut, who cares what happens to the guy who just handed over his cash, right?

Edited January 5, 2015 by Macisle

[AttorneyAtWar]

Steam doesn't discount your games if you don't want them discounted...

[von Luck]

So I have an interesting article that discusses an indy company creating and selling a game over Steam and several other mediums. 

 

http://hitboxteam.com/dustforce-sales-figures

 

This article is an interesting glimpse at a company looking back at some sales data and reflecting on what it means.  The graphs speak volumes about sales and the mentality of gamers in terms of buying into a product.  They also discuss the affect of having the player base increased to such an extent that the base sales rate increased due to having a greater visability of the game. 

 

Obviously this game is nothing like CM however I think there are enough commanalities in terms of a game attempting to build a larger player base.  Despite what many of the nay sayers proudly discourage - having greater visibility of a game is a huge boon which translates into the company making more money which means more and better products.  Steam is a fantastic tool for advertising and selling games and I heartilly agree with people who suggest it should be used.

 

 

von Luck

Edited January 5, 2015 by von Luck

[sburke]

5 posts, 5 posts, 11 posts, 14 posts, 18 posts.  Did someone just decide over at a community board that a bunch of folks should come over here and push steam again or what?

[von Luck]

Sburke,

 

I have played CM for a very long time.  I have been involved in this franchise since its early inception.  I am posting this because I find it genuinly consternating that the game isnt marketed on steam.

 

von Luck

[sburke]

Sburke,

 

I have played CM for a very long time.  I have been involved in this franchise since its early inception.  I am posting this because I find it genuinly consternating that the game isnt marketed on steam.

 

von Luck

roger that, just looked odd.

[von Luck]

For those less interested in reading the article these graphs are an interesting look at Sales data.

 

 

Initial Sales:

 

Midweek Madness Sales:

Humble Bundle Sales:

 

 

Total Revenue:

 

von Luck

[Macisle]

I'll quote this one and officially exit the thread.

[sburke]

[Kieme(ITA)]

Another thread about steam, I really start to dislike this campaign, people with no real interest in participating on CM discussions come on these boards, make quick accounts or use old accounts only just to push an already over-discussed subject, which received in the past all the attention from developers it deserved.

 

Besides, I don't really see the necessity of publishing a direct link to buy another (steam) game on this board, since we discuss of CMBS here.

 

I am glad that the more of these threads pop up the less Steve will be interested in steam. So, to all those who are opening this discussion over and over and over again from time to time: good job!

Edited January 5, 2015 by Kieme(ITA)

[Kieme(ITA)]

Either Battlefront will join the modern market in the next few years and we'll merrily enjoy many new Combat Mission games for decades to come, or they will stubbornly and scaredly vanish into obscurity and be replaced by someone else.

 

 

And who in the world are you to say something like that? Some kind of god? Or you just belive you are over a throne? BFC has decades of game development and distributuon behind them, who are you to judge their work using such an arrogant and totally disrespectful phrasing (which has no place here even if you were some kind of game distributor god)?

 

I am sure we will enjoy CM games in the next years as we did in the last years, and not thanks to you but thanks to BFC.

Edited January 5, 2015 by Kieme(ITA)

[Stagler]

The sticks in the mud remain still after this was last brought up I see.

[Spitzenhund]

Another thread about steam, I really start to dislike this campaign, people with no real interest in participating on CM discussions come on these boards, make quick accounts or use old accounts only just to push an already over-discussed subject, which received in the past all the attention from developers it deserved.

 

Besides, I don't really see the necessity of publishing a direct link to buy another (steam) game on this board, since we discuss of CMBS here.

 

I am glad that the more of these threads pop up the less Steve will be interested in steam. So, to all those who are opening this discussion over and over and over again from time to time: good job!

Is this what you say on every thread? If you don't like a discussion then just avoid the discussion. If people are argueing it then that means there is enough interest from either side of the coin to deserve a thread. It's not like one dude made a thread then continued to spam post it begging for steam.

[Baneman]

For those less interested in reading the article these graphs are an interesting look at Sales data.

 

 

Initial Sales:

von Luck

 

My grasp of mathematics is tenuous at best, but doesn't that demonstrate a drastic drop-off of sales ?

 

Obviously none of us knows what BFC's numbers look like, but I imagine it may be more of a sine-wave ( extrapolating from previous comments on the lines of "we know our customer base and this works for us" ).

 

And on the other topic, no one bashed the OP, in fact, he was told that "it's come up before, devs said never going to happen, search for previous threads on the topic" - which is pretty standard for any forum in which a dead-horse subject comes up.

 

No one said the OP was a dinosaur, stupid, shortsighted, doomed to extinction etc. which goes a mite beyond "I disagree with their non-steam policy".

[Mord]

You guys don't bother beating the dead horse you go right to the corpse fornication....here are just a few of the half a hundred threads on this tired (answered a million times) argument.

http://community.battlefront.com/topic/104171-steam/

http://community.battlefront.com/topic/115759-combat-mission-and-steam/

http://community.battlefront.com/topic/114499-combat-mission-and-steam/

http://community.battlefront.com/topic/84898-combat-mission-on-steam/?hl=steam#entry1554732

 

When people who have been here a long time, and particpated in many a thread on this subject tell you it's been discussed to death...yeah, just ignore them.

 

Here's the deal, BFC doesn't want to do it. Get over it.

 

Mord.

P.S. Jim Jones called and wants his Kool-aid back.
 

Edited January 5, 2015 by Mord

[Fetchez la Vache]

I only buy games on steam these days. Combat Mission is the only exception. Works fine. No problems so far. It's nice to have everything in one place. 

 

Ditto, for what it's worth.

 

I like a nice argument...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnTmBjk-M0c

 

 

 

(how does one embed youtube videos so you can view them in the reading pane? - got it!)

Edited January 5, 2015 by Fetchez la Vache

[AttorneyAtWar]

You guys don't bother beating the dead horse you go right to the corpse fornication....here are just a few of the half a hundred threads on this tired (answered a million times) argument.

http://community.battlefront.com/topic/104171-steam/

http://community.battlefront.com/topic/115759-combat-mission-and-steam/

http://community.battlefront.com/topic/114499-combat-mission-and-steam/

http://community.battlefront.com/topic/84898-combat-mission-on-steam/?hl=steam#entry1554732

 

When people who have been here a long time, and particpated in many a thread on this subject tell you it's been discussed to death...yeah, just ignore them.

 

Here's the deal, BFC doesn't want to do it. Get over it.

 

Mord.

P.S. Jim Jones called and wants his Kool-aid back.

 

 

The argument isn't going anywhere as long as Steam exists and people want to see CM on it, new members or old.

 

Get over it.

 

A great example of how much interest there is in this particular topic is how fast (literally over night) this post has already garnered over 1200 views, compared to others who have been up for at least 3 or more and are sitting at around 500.

Edited January 5, 2015 by Raptorx7

[borg]

For a moment I thought those graphs were military tactical maps ! Geeesh.

[Stagler]

5 posts, 5 posts, 11 posts, 14 posts, 18 posts.  Did someone just decide over at a community board that a bunch of folks should come over here and push steam again or what?

 

No. They didnt.

[Mord]

The argument isn't going anywhere as long as Steam exists and people want to see CM on it, new members or old.

 

Get over it.

 

A great example of how much interest there is in this particular topic is how fast (literally over night) this post has already garnered over 1200 views, compared to others who have been up for at least 3 or more and are sitting at around 500.

 

I don't give a **** either way, whether it's there or isn't, but they said NO. Stamping feet and crying about it every month or two doesn't change what they said. That's the point. No still pretty much means no in most dictionaries. Steve possibly, yet again, spending precious time explaining why they said no, on the fifteenth stupid @ss Steam argument is a waste of resources. I'd rather have him talk about the actual game.

 

 

Big deal, 1200 views...every argument thread gets lots of views. Wait, let me guess...it's the magic of Steam! Steam makes reading fundemental! Lose 100lbs of fat in only 9 hours...with Steam! Got wrinkles...Steam will fix them! LOL.

 

Look, I am on Steam. I have no problem with Steam. I have Rome II, Shogun II, Medieval II, Left 4 Dead, and Sniper Elite V2 all on Steam. So, what?

 

Mord.

[AttorneyAtWar]

I don't give a **** either way, whether it's there or isn't, but they said NO. Stamping feet and crying about it every month or two doesn't change what they said. That's the point. No still pretty much means no in most dictionaries. Steve possibly, yet again, spending precious time explaining why they said no, on the fifteenth stupid @ss Steam argument is a waste of resources. I'd rather have him talk about the actual game.

 

 

Big deal, 1200 views...every argument thread gets lots of views. Wait, let me guess...it's the magic of Steam! Steam makes reading fundemental! Lose 100lbs of fat in only 9 hours...with Steam! Got wrinkles...Steam will fix them! LOL.

 

Look, I am on Steam. I have no problem with Steam. I have Rome II, Shogun II, Medieval II, Left 4 Dead, and Sniper Elite V2 all on Steam. So, what?

 

Mord.

 

I am not interested in an prolonged argument with you but, people coming on here to ask (Specifically new people since that's who it is this time) if the game is coming onto Steam or requesting it is not "stamping there feet and crying about it". You don't want to argue about it? than don't comment in the thread and let the people who DO argue it, no one is forcing you to read this post. As long as there isn't some ridiculous forum rule that says "no posting about Steam" new people are going to come in and ask about it, and doing the right thing as older members of the community should we will explain why or why not it is likely to get on Steam, not just telling them to "Get over it", that isn't an acceptable answer for something like this. Shutting them down instantly with an insult and backhanded comment about it does nothing but foster a bad attitude for both parties, its a completely legitimate question to ask, especially for someone new probably seeking ways to purchase the product.

 

As for the people who come on here with a condescending or "above all" attitude, sure knock em down a peg, but keep your composure.

Edited January 5, 2015 by Raptorx7

[BlackAlpha]

Another thread about steam, I really start to dislike this campaign, people with no real interest in participating on CM discussions come on these boards, make quick accounts or use old accounts only just to push an already over-discussed subject, which received in the past all the attention from developers it deserved.

 

 

Maybe that says two things:

 

1. People keep posting about it over and over because they might be on to something.

 

2. Or more importantly, people want a Steam release and are letting the developers know what their wishes are. You have to keep up with the times and the developers are not doing it, and so people keep reminding the developers what they want the developers to do. This isn't just about what Battlefront wants. This is also about what we and other potential customers want. Our wishes are just as important.

Edited January 5, 2015 by BlackAlpha

[Jargotn]

Shutting them down instantly with an insult and backhanded comment about it does nothing but foster a bad attitude for both parties, its a completely legitimate question to ask, especially for someone new probably seeking ways to purchase the product.

Please correct me if im wrong, but all I see on the first page of the thread is forum members politely telling the poster that Steam has been discussed to death, and that BF has stated that they aren't on Steam not because they never heard of it but for a reason. Granted, at the beginning nobody posted direct links to the older threads. That could have been different.

 

I think that this is the best way to deal with a "dead horse": Refer the new poster to the place where the issue was discussed. If the poster thinks that he can add something he is free to do so. In this thread, however, all I see is old arguments, or no arguments at all.